Keeping cham no UVB through winter

[jamest0o0]

I brought this up last year and ended up doing it for my parsons chameleon. I would not suggest this to anyone that is newer to chams. I am not even totally comfortable with it myself. At the same time, I do not really want to put a fixture on my ceiling where the cham is kept and the fire risk worries me having small children.

So anyway... I can usually get my guy outside in the sun at least once a week in the winter. I was thinking of doing the repashy all in one once a week, or maybe just doing a plain calc+d3 instead of the repashy once a week. I had no problems doing this last winter, my cham seemed healthy.

I'd like to get opinions on a good d3 supplementation and outside schedule. Something like 1-2 days sun per week for 30min-2 hours each time while supplementing D3 once a week(maybe more, maybe less?).

I'll also be supplementing with the typical gutloads, bee pollen, dusting with arcadia earth pro, plain calc, maybe repashy/maybe vitamin A drops/or maybe just feeding a fuzzy mouse once or twice a month. Open to suggestions as I want to have things dialed in perfectly while he's indoors.

 

[Beman]

Why not build a frame for the t5 or even shelf brackets attached to the wall and use a metal grate for it to sit on? Then you could have UVB. I could give you UVI levels without screen based on what I have if you like.

 

[jamest0o0]

@Beman I think with where he's at, I'd probably need to just hang the fixture as close to the ceiling as possible. It's pretty close to where he sits 99% of the time so I may even be better off with a T8 if I go that route.

A more convenient option would be a dome uvb bulb. I know the coul bulbs are pretty useless, but I've used one of those mega ray bulbs or whatever(can't remember the brand) with success. Downside of that was it was so powerful I had to have it like 6 feet away lol. Know of any any weaker bulbs that would spread the UVB? I could hang it at an angle even to sweep across the top.

Here's a picture I circled where he spends literally about 99% of his time while indoors

 

[Beman]

@Beman I think with where he's at, I'd probably need to just hang the fixture as close to the ceiling as possible. It's pretty close to where he sits 99% of the time so I may even be better off with a T8 if I go that route.

A more convenient option would be a dome uvb bulb. I know the coul bulbs are pretty useless, but I've used one of those mega ray bulbs or whatever(can't remember the brand) with success. Downside of that was it was so powerful I had to have it like 6 feet away lol. Know of any any weaker bulbs that would spread the UVB? I could hang it at an angle even to sweep across the top.

Here's a picture I circled where he spends literally about 99% of his time while indoors

How many inches away is that?

A T5HO with a 6% No screen blocking UVB (tested in a single bulb fixture 36inch)
6 inches 7.0 UVI
9 inches 4.5 UVI
12 inches 3.0 UVI
15 inches 2.2 UVI

Now this is what I got from Bill Strand on the 5.0 bulbs. They are a bit weaker output then the 6%

Bulb = Reptisun 5.0 T5 HO 24W, 22"
Fixture = Arcada ProT5
No screen filter

UVI 6 = 6"
UVI 3 = 10.5"
UVI 1 = 21"

I unfortunately do not have a T8 I could test for you.

I believe @Mawtyplant uses the combo UVB/heat in all her free ranges for her Mellers. Maybe she could give you some ideas on types and at what distance.

 

[jamest0o0]

You know, I could probably easily hang one of those hood fixtures. They don't seem to get too hot and aren't heavy. If he hangs out in the middle all day that's the only place I'd really need the uvb anyway, eh

 

[Beman]

You know, I could probably easily hang one of those hood fixtures. They don't seem to get too hot and aren't heavy. If he hangs out in the middle all day that's the only place I'd really need the uvb anyway, eh

Hood fixtures?
As long as your mounting so that the direct path of light is where he hangs out it is going to be reduced farther away. Your real levels are right below the fixture.. I see reduction as I move out from the bulb about 2 inches and then it further lowers the farther out I go. So even if the higher perch is closer if it is farther back then he won't get high levels of UVB there.

 

[jamest0o0]

Hood fixtures?
As long as your mounting so that the direct path of light is where he hangs out it is going to be reduced farther away. Your real levels are right below the fixture.. I see reduction as I move out from the bulb about 2 inches and then it further lowers the farther out I go. So even if the higher perch is closer if it is farther back then he won't get high levels of UVB there.

Yeah hood/linear fixture. I'm referring to the cheaper plastic ones that are t8 I believe(you see them on old fish tanks). Idk u have it laying around, can't remember lol.

But yeah I get what you're saying, I had that problem on my old free range, had the uvb too close to the wall and wasn't reaching down the middle.

 

[Beman]

Yeah hood/linear fixture. I'm referring to the cheaper plastic ones that are t8 I believe(you see them on old fish tanks). Idk u have it laying around, can't remember lol.

But yeah I get what you're saying, I had that problem on my old free range, had the uvb too close to the wall and wasn't reaching down the middle.

Yeah I really like these... THey come with mounting hardware you could use to hang it https://www.pangeareptile.com/store/t5-uvb-light-fixture.html

 

[Mawtyplant]

How many inches away is that?

A T5HO with a 6% No screen blocking UVB (tested in a single bulb fixture 36inch)
6 inches 7.0 UVI
9 inches 4.5 UVI
12 inches 3.0 UVI
15 inches 2.2 UVI

Now this is what I got from Bill Strand on the 5.0 bulbs. They are a bit weaker output then the 6%

Bulb = Reptisun 5.0 T5 HO 24W, 22"
Fixture = Arcada ProT5
No screen filter

UVI 6 = 6"
UVI 3 = 10.5"
UVI 1 = 21"

I unfortunately do not have a T8 I could test for you.

I believe @Mawtyplant uses the combo UVB/heat in all her free ranges for her Mellers. Maybe she could give you some ideas on types and at what distance.

Hiiidio! So yes im using combo but metal halide combo (hid) by exo terra and zoo med (sunray and powersun hid) with thoses bulb you expect to have uvb with a safe 70 cm deep! It’s seriously the only suitable uvb safe source powerful enough for a freerange.. plus chams are really attracted by the spectrum of the lamp so they will go straight under even in a 8 meter by 8 meter freerange

the con : expensive, but its awesome and the uvb seem to last for ever (up to 2 years?‍)

ps t8 will never be freerange friendly

 

[Beman]

Hiiidio! So yes im using combo but metal halide combo (hid) by exo terra and zoo med (sunray and powersun hid) with thoses bulb you expect to have uvb with a safe 70 cm deep! It’s seriously the only suitable uvb safe source powerful enough for a freerange.. plus chams are really attracted by the spectrum of the lamp so they will go straight under even in a 8 meter by 8 meter freerange

the con : expensive, but its awesome and the uvb seem to last for ever (up to 2 years?‍)

ps t8 will never be freerange friendly

WOW that is quite a bit of distance you have to provide. So at 70 cm/27inches would that put them in a 3 UVI level? Where do the temps end up with this distance? Just curious

 

[PetNcs]

I brought this up last year and ended up doing it for my parsons chameleon. I would not suggest this to anyone that is newer to chams. I am not even totally comfortable with it myself. At the same time, I do not really want to put a fixture on my ceiling where the cham is kept and the fire risk worries me having small children.

So anyway... I can usually get my guy outside in the sun at least once a week in the winter. I was thinking of doing the repashy all in one once a week, or maybe just doing a plain calc+d3 instead of the repashy once a week. I had no problems doing this last winter, my cham seemed healthy.

I'd like to get opinions on a good d3 supplementation and outside schedule. Something like 1-2 days sun per week for 30min-2 hours each time while supplementing D3 once a week(maybe more, maybe less?).

I'll also be supplementing with the typical gutloads, bee pollen, dusting with arcadia earth pro, plain calc, maybe repashy/maybe vitamin A drops/or maybe just feeding a fuzzy mouse once or twice a month. Open to suggestions as I want to have things dialed in perfectly while he's indoors.

Unnatural
Take a cham while brummating in and out..
Serves stress and no realmpirpose
Itnis someasy to het it exposed to low UVI and not to stress it permanently.
I do really not get the idea
But ignore it
I
Am
Out

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

This is a topic I have had with in my greenhouse for a long time. That has greenhouse coverings that do not allow UVA or UVB rays through. I shall say is make certain to give your D3 supplements when going without a UV source. I have had problems in the past and something to keep in regard is not to give to much supplements as your chameleons can develop edema. As well during the winter when you can provide some type of artificial UVA and UVB source. When possible as you sound as you are already doing James, provide and expose to natural sunshine/UV rays during winter.

I am a big fan of the Lugarti bulbs. The Lugarti bulbs put out a lot of UVA and UVB at a long distance. Plus they provide a higher UV reading than the normal daytime sun in my area. You just have to space them with the enclosure.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[jamest0o0]

Unnatural
Take a cham while brummating in and out..
Serves stress and no realmpirpose
Itnis someasy to het it exposed to low UVI and not to stress it permanently.
I do really not get the idea
But ignore it
I
Am
Out

Many people with parsons do not always brumate them, I'm not even sure what you're trying to say TBH. Humans supplement with d3 when they don't get sunlight, don't see why it's not possible*(note I said possible, as in I don't know the exact method for this, but maybe someone out there has experience with it). Supplementing d3 isn't anymore unnatural than providing it with a lightbulb. Overall I'd agree though, I'd like to get a light up there, but if I can get him in the sun enough+some vitamins then i see no reason for it being a problem. Sunlight>uvb no? Just comes down to how much sun it would take.

 

[nightanole]

I did fine with sticky tongue farms indoor and almost zero UVB for years with vields in the 1990's. You just use it every dusting. repashy LOD + D3 or what ever is even higher with D3.

RepCal D3+ 400,000 IU/kg
Flukers Reptacalcium 100,000 IU/lb
Exoterra 14,740 IU/lb
ZooMed ReptiCalcium 22,907 IU/kg
Mineral -indoor 2000ui per kg
Repashy calcium plus LoD 8,000 IU/lb or 20,000 ui/kg

 

[CasqueAbove]

@Beman I think with where he's at, I'd probably need to just hang the fixture as close to the ceiling as possible. It's pretty close to where he sits 99% of the time so I may even be better off with a T8 if I go that route.

A more convenient option would be a dome uvb bulb. I know the coul bulbs are pretty useless, but I've used one of those mega ray bulbs or whatever(can't remember the brand) with success. Downside of that was it was so powerful I had to have it like 6 feet away lol. Know of any any weaker bulbs that would spread the UVB? I could hang it at an angle even to sweep across the top.

Here's a picture I circled where he spends literally about 99% of his time while indoors

What lights are those you are using?
I have used MegaRay exclusively, I go light on D3. They are both 2yrs old, and very healthy and strong.
I use them in the dome clip on types like you have.
Or ceiling mounted with on the wall wiring.

Ugly version

nicer version

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Many people with parsons do not always brumate them, I'm not even sure what you're trying to say TBH. Humans supplement with d3 when they don't get sunlight, don't see why it's not possible*(note I said possible, as in I don't know the exact method for this, but maybe someone out there has experience with it). Supplementing d3 isn't anymore unnatural than providing it with a lightbulb. Overall I'd agree though, I'd like to get a light up there, but if I can get him in the sun enough+some vitamins then i see no reason for it being a problem. Sunlight>uvb no? Just comes down to how much sun it would take.

There is a theory that is floating around out there among Calumma parsonii ssp. keepers. That is that keepers whose Calumma parsonii parsonii are aloud to burmate live longer than the ones that do not burmate. This burmating period is a necessary time for Calumma parsonii ssp. to reboot and update there software to say. There is more than one Calumma parsonii ssp. keeper that thinks this. I am one of those keepers.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[Mawtyplant]

WOW that is quite a bit of distance you have to provide. So at 70 cm/27inches would that put them in a 3 UVI level? Where do the temps end up with this distance? Just curious

Ill check this in few week someome borrow my uvbmeter ? but uvb was suffisent to my princess exigencies ?

 

[Beman]

Ill check this in few week someome borrow my uvbmeter ? but uvb was suffisent to my princess exigencies ?

I would be curious to know. I don't have hands on experience with MV and always like to learn more

 

[jamest0o0]

There is a theory that is floating around out there among Calumma parsonii ssp. keepers. That is that keepers whose Calumma parsonii parsonii are aloud to burmate live longer than the ones that do not burmate. This burmating period is a necessary time for Calumma parsonii ssp. to reboot and update there software to say. There is more than one Calumma parsonii ssp. keeper that thinks this. I am one of those keepers.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

Well first of all that is a theory, but I wouldn't doubt it. That was my thinking as well when I brumated my guy. I think there are extremes to it though. Mine was seeing pretty low temps for 4-6 months. I still plan on(pretty much unavoidable) having seasonal changes(lower temps, shorter days, little less water), but I'm not going as low as I was before.

Another thing, I see so many Parsons keepers that have them to almost 300 grams before 2 years old. I can't imagine they're brumating them if that's the case, so it doesn't seem terribly uncommon to skip it. Many respected keepers do not put theirs through it.

 

[jamest0o0]

What lights are those you are using?
I have used MegaRay exclusively, I go light on D3. They are both 2yrs old, and very healthy and strong.
I use them in the dome clip on types like you have.
Or ceiling mounted with on the wall wiring.

Ugly version
View attachment 277645
nicer version
View attachment 277646

Very nice! Those are just some regular basking bulbs in my set up. I have one of the D3 bulbs, but I think the one I bought was too powerful, do you know what readings you're getting?