just got first panther chameleon

[newchameleon]

When i ordered my baby panther chameleon it did not really register how small he was going to be. I just got my panther chameleon last thursday and have been experimenting with everything. Seems the gave was a bit to big for a 2 inch chameleon 2x2x4 then feeding. i have tried hand feeding with him in my hand and the food in my hand, with him in his cage not touching him holding his food putting his food in things. Tried putting him in a bucket with the food.
First day he ate a wax worm which i found was too big for him now. wont do that again. Also a meal worm and 1 cricket. That was all at one time. Since then i can only get him to eat 1 meal worm a day.
He isnt interested in the food.
I have a mali uromastyx so i know about the temps that are needed. I have the timer set from 7 to 7 for the basking and sun light. i have found vines and plants and all that.
Just cannot figure out if he really should not be eating that much or feeding wrong thing?
I tried to contact the place i got him and no answer back for help.
On monday all he was doing was sleeping so gave him a little bath in sink on my finger and he woke up after that and has been doing better. moving around and eyes open. i read somewhere they should never be just laying with eyes closed. But he is...guessing only about 4-6 weeks old.
i need help. i feel like i am doing ok then feel like i am doing horrible at this. I just cannot find the answers i need to my specific questions..

 

[NHenn]

Welcome to the forums. Sorry to hear your little guy isn't doing well. Could you please post some pictures of him and your setup as they will be a huge help in determining the problems.

Also, if you could fill out the https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/ it will provide us with the information we need.

I have a feeling his cage is too large and he might not feel comfortable in it if there isn't enough places for him to hide.

Also, chameleons are different from other lizards so your temps for the Mali might not be correct for a chameleon, especially if he is only 4 weeks old.

How large are your crickets, if he is only 4 weeks he could still be eating pinhead crickets and the size might be the problem.

Sleeping during the day is a bad sign, please fill out the above link and provide pictures as soon as possible so we can better help you.

 

[Chameleon Creator]

Give him time to settle in before introducing stressful activities like hand feeding and placing him in a bucket with food.
The cage size IMO shouldn't be an issue, they are normally in the wild with a lot more space so confining them in a cage controls their environment.
Pinheads crickets are what you should be feeding at that size, anything larger he may be intimidated by and seem uninterested.
They should never sleep during the day, make sure his husbandry is to the t.
Pitch black at night, absolutely no lights. Letting the temp drop at night helps with a deeper sleep. Make sure he is getting more than adequate water to drink with misting.
As mentioned before, fill out all the information so someone can specifically tell you what may be the issue, otherwise we can only tell you what could be the issue.

 

[newchameleon]

here is a picture of the cage and panther chameleon.
i have it 88 degrees at top and 75 bottom of cage during the day and off at night just have a heat lamp because it gets cold in minnesota.
he has poo'd 2 times since being in my care brownish white i believe.
has been sleeping at night.screen cage.have been spraying plant leaves about 10 -20 times day.

 

[newchameleon]

have had Oliver for 5 days he is about 4-6 weeks old i am guessing
no prev history got him from mail order
lights i have reptisun 10.0 uvb and basking light .
he has pothos, and umbrella tree plant in cage
cage is in my office/ so he sees me and hears me typing for 5to8 hours a day not by any fans
we are in MN

 

[Psychobunny]

Congrats on your new and first panther
First thing I notice from your pics, you need a lot more foliage, branches, etc.
to fill up those empty spaces. They need to be able to hide and not exposed
in the open.
Looks like the closest basking spot is too far from the lamp!?
Using a 40W incan bulb, I place basking branches at different levels, like 10, 12, 14, etc. so they can find the one that they like.
How are you measuring the temps?
I recommend a good digital thermometer with probe to monitor temps at
the basking spots and in the middle of the cage.
You want to provide a sort of, temp gradient, so he can regulate his own
temp during the day, and a cooler spot at night.

Handling your little guy may not be a good idea, esp when they are that small.
They get stressed very easy, and you cant always tell.
Chams generally do not like to be handled. They will tolerate it once they get
to know and trust you, but until that time, it's best to leave him be.

I would get more vines, branches and stuff in there, double check your temps,
and leave him alone. Don't disturb him except at feeding time.
He needs time to adjust to his new home before he will feel secure, and
may not eat if going through stress.

The food you are giving him may also be too big, try some tiny cricks, baby
mealworms, fruitflies, little feeders like that.
You can put feeders in a cup inside the cage, but make sure it's not too deep,
and always keep it in the same spot.
Chams don't like change, so it's not a good idea to keep changing things in
the cage, or moving locations a lot.

If you continue to have problems with feeding, you may want to transfer him
to a baby cage, like what breeders use until the chams are a few months old.
They can find food more easy in a smaller cage.

What is that thing on the floor, on the right, with a control knob thing on it?

Here is a pic of Slinky's cage. He is a 2 1/2 month old panther, and is able to
eat larger prey. I leave the bottom open to discourage him from running around on the floor, and because it makes cleaning a lot easier:

 

[Psychobunny]

One more thing, almost forgot, and kind of important.
Chams like to be up high, they feel more secure if they are looking down on
you, I would put his cage on a table, stand or something so it's elevated more.

 

[Lathelia]

Looks like a female, though the picture is small and a bit blurry so I could be wrong

 

[NHenn]

Stan posted some great advise. I suggest you try to change your setup to match what he is talking about. It will most likely make a huge difference in his health.

Some other quick notes I would recommend. Remove the water bowl at the bottom as he could easily drown in it. Also I would remove the humidifier and just place it in the room, it doesn't have to be in the cage.

I believe you said you have the heat lamp on at night, be sure that all lights are off at night. If you need to keep the heat up in the cage it must be done by means other than a light.

Also, like Stan said, he needs alot more foliage and vines/sticks. I understand in the wide they don't have cages so the size shouldn't matter but when they are in a cage and there is no place to hide it does matter. That is why I stand by what I said and recommend smaller cages for babies. It allows them to feel safe and helps reduce any unnecessary stress. Also, it is a lot easier for them to hunt and eat in a smaller cage which in my experience allows them to grow faster and healthier.

 

[Psychobunny]

Oh, I see now, it is a humidifier! LOL

You could actually put that on the outside of the cage.
First, so it doesn't get poop'ed on, and second, because that tiny guy may
decide to investigate it and climb into something he shouldn't go

 

[Chameleon Creator]

I agree with what everyone has already said, pretty spot on. I would also take out that bucket, looks like a breeding ground for bacteria. You need to mist him a lot, get a mistking of you can afford one.
Do not use any cfl bulbs, they are far too bright for a Cham and will cause eye issues and possibly blindness.
It looks like you are using cfl bulbs. They sell them at Petsmart for chameleons and they really shouldn't.
Get the linear tube shaped bulbs for the uv light.
Get a ficus tree and place it in the middle of the cage and buy some bend a branches and loop them around for more climbing room.
Get a drainage system, cleaner, easier and safer.
Don't have anything inside the cage that he shouldn't get to.
If you don't want to do the ficus set up then try something like bunnys setup, I really like that one.
Babies dehydrate more quickly than older chams so be sure he is drinking a lot of water.

 

[Chameleon Creator]

And if you MUST use a heat source for night time, use ONLY a ceramic heater, they emit no light whatsoever. Rule of thumb on light colors, if you can see it, they can see it; they need pitch black to sleep properly.
But you should know they will be fine in temps down to mid 50's as long as they have proper basking heat temp during the day

 

[MelissaB]

I agree with what everyone has already said, pretty spot on. I would also take out that bucket, looks like a breeding ground for bacteria. You need to mist him a lot, get a mistking of you can afford one.
Do not use any cfl bulbs, they are far too bright for a Cham and will cause eye issues and possibly blindness.
It looks like you are using cfl bulbs. They sell them at Petsmart for chameleons and they really shouldn't.
Get the linear tube shaped bulbs for the uv light.
Get a ficus tree and place it in the middle of the cage and buy some bend a branches and loop them around for more climbing room.
Get a drainage system, cleaner, easier and safer.
Don't have anything inside the cage that he shouldn't get to.
If you don't want to do the ficus set up then try something like bunnys setup, I really like that one.
Babies dehydrate more quickly than older chams so be sure he is drinking a lot of water.

I've used CFL Reptisun 5.0 bulbs with no issues. There were problems with them years ago, but the manufacturer fixed the problem. The T8 or T5 tube bulbs give a broader beam, the CFLs are more focused in one area.

 

[Chameleon Creator]

I've used CFL Reptisun 5.0 bulbs with no issues. There were problems with them years ago, but the manufacturer fixed the problem. The T8 or T5 tube bulbs give a broader beam, the CFLs are more focused in one area.

I've heard something similar to this before also, that it was the old bulbs that caused the issues and they have been fixed since then, but I'm not positive on this. Personally I feel safer using the tubular bulbs over the cfl, even if they no longer cause eye issues. Better safe than sorry, not saying you are incorrect just what I prefer. Can anyone else validate this? It would be good to know for future reference.

 

[newchameleon]

OK so i went and bought a smaller cage just a cheap petsmart one.
The lady at petsmart said to just let the food run around. So the flightless fruitlies did not stay in the bowl and the crickets are in there bowl and mealworms are in their bowl. branch above it so he can reach.
He just keeps looking around.
Has only been an hour but not sleeping yet again.
I really appreciate all of your help.
I feel lost with this little guy.
So i am not going to touch him anymore. Just going to make sure ok.
Put the food in and leave him be?
have water dripping in one spot in cage.

 

[Psychobunny]

OK so i went and bought a smaller cage just a cheap petsmart one.
The lady at petsmart said to just let the food run around. So the flightless fruitlies did not stay in the bowl and the crickets are in there bowl and mealworms are in their bowl. branch above it so he can reach.
He just keeps looking around.
Has only been an hour but not sleeping yet again.
I really appreciate all of your help.
I feel lost with this little guy.
So i am not going to touch him anymore. Just going to make sure ok.
Put the food in and leave him be?
have water dripping in one spot in cage.

I really don't mean to frustrate you any more then you already are, but please
take whatever the folks at Petstupid say with a big grain of salt.
They obviously sold you a high ticket item to make a sale.
If you put fruit flies and tiny cricks in that exoterra, you will soon have them
running around your home

This is a better, cheaper, and better ventilated solution for your baby:

http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Repti...=1391635874&sr=8-1&keywords=reptibreeze+small

Also, that combo temp-RH meter by Zoomed is worthless crap!! you do NOT want to trust that with your baby's health.
Something like this is what you want:

http://www.amazon.com/General-Tools...37663&sr=8-22&keywords=thermometer+with+probe



Please feel free to PM me if you want, I will be happy to help you and your new baby

 

[Chameleon Creator]

I'm pretty sure a lot of people here have done the run around with Petsmart and their recommendations with supplies and husbandry so don't feel too bad.
Ask any and all questions on this forum, this is where the experts are and everyone is more than willing to help.
Petsmart is overpriced, everything there is overpriced.
Amazon has cheaper lights and tools.
If you want the real deal with lighting at competitive pricing, shop at lightyourreptiles.com, Todd will help you out with questions about lights. I believe that's the website.
High quality cages at the best prices can be found at DIYcages.com
I bought the largest available cage which is 2 feet by 2 feet and 4 feet tall priced at under $100 shipped.
Crickets and other feeders at Petsmart are junk and overpriced.
Shop at ghanns crickets for excellent quality crickets at wayy cheaper prices..
Learn about guy loading crickets with homemade blends, avoid using flukers garbage cubes.
The cricket keepers they sell are a joke. Not enough space and not enough ventilation. Your crickets will drop dead fast in those.
Buy a storage container at walmart for like 7 bucks, I don't know the gallon capacity off hand but they sized at around a foot tall by two feet long and a foot deep, wayy bigger, cut out the middle of the top lid and hot glue a screen. More space and more ventilation.
I get my Dubia roaches from [email protected]
Email him and tell him I referred you and I'm sure he can help you out. He has the Dubia deal down to the t, he knows his Dubia.
There is a lot left for you to know but learning is a part of owning a chameleon.
You will figure it out and it will be easy. Just stick to the forums and you'll be fine.