Just bought a cham to save his life....need help.

[reyesjoshuacruz]

what would the chameleon do?

Did you actually read the whole thread?

I can't believe you would say this having read the whole thing!

damn, no i didnt . and i didnt need to.

beleive it pure, we both know there is atleast one opinion in this thread expressed via comment, that the animal would have been no better off with the new keeper.

and the drama i speak of, is when members on here get attacked when asking for advice.

i did keep on this thread when it started, then when i saw the thread was straying from actual advice i stopped. and read the last page or so then commented.


lets put it this way.... IMMHO lets say the chameleon in question had the capacity to make logical decisions and communicate with us.

and it was given the choice to stay where it was or go with the new keeper what do you think it would do?

A TUFF decision i know, but i think it would choose the new keeper, but i guess according to some of you it would be an irresponsible decision on the chams part

 

[SoCaliSon]

repti-aid worked well for me when i used it, if that's what the vet said then do it!

and for the veiled chameleon being on there.. haha your right.. i just picked random chameleons .. i didn't really think about it, i made that in like 5 minutes.

and to update my status, i just got a new veiled chameleon from lancecham ... for $35!! pickin him up in a week.. he live's in the L.A. area! now i have my nosy be and veiled! great news! but keep updating on the situation.. we would like to hear how lucky is doing

I know... I was just making a little joke... I thought that image was funny...

Lance has some great Chams!!! You should be happy with your cham from him!

I just wanted to say that if this discussion were taking place face to face... It would be no where near as heated as it seems to be here. We all love chams... and just want to make sure that we get the right advice to the people who need it... And I am sorry... But anyone who acquires an animal in the condition this one is in should be pointed in the right direction. We are not here to crucify anyone.

i agree, he was better off. i dont think anyone can logical support the contrary.

Two years ago i took in 3 rescues with not money for vets, did what i could, " stopped the bleeding " if you will, and adopted them out individually to keepers that had more funds available for follow

they were most certainly better off in my care in that case, and in most cases like that.

if he didnt end up taking the animal to the vet it may have died, but in his care the animals suffering would be less, if not MUCH less. That FACT alone makes what he did positive.

he still would have paid for a sick animal with his own money and spent more on feeding and supplies.

This forum is soo much drama now, keepers are letting their emotions govern their comments. None of you can really believe the cham was just as bad off with this new keeper.

I think you did the honorable thing sir, and you KNOW you did the honorable thing i hope that counts for something.

I have, and would have done the same thing

Josh... You say you adopted out the ones you could not provide care for... It shows you were thinking about the health of the chams... and not the bulk of your collection. My comments were meant to steer the OP away from the ..."I'm keeping it, if it dies, it dies" mentality that he showed in previous posts on this thread, because he was unwilling or unable to provide the proper attention. I think that kind of mentality by the keeper... Is incredibly unfair to the captive animal... I am sure you would agree. This is where the drama comes from. On a forum with a bunch of people who are serious about the care of these amazing animals... There is bound to be some "drama" when that kind of mentality is shown by a keeper... Rightfully so as well.

 

[Pure]

Josh... You say you adopted out the ones you could not provide care for... It shows you were thinking about the health of the chams... and not the bulk of your collection. My comments were meant to steer the OP away from the ..."I'm keeping it, if it dies, it dies" mentality that he showed in previous posts on this thread, because he was unwilling or unable to provide the proper attention. I think that kind of mentality by the keeper... Is incredibly unfair to the captive animal... I am sure you would agree. This is where the drama comes from. On a forum with a bunch of people who are serious about the care of these amazing animals... There is bound to be some "drama" when that kind of mentality is shown by a keeper... Rightfully so as well.

Agreed! Couldn't have said it better.

 

[reyesjoshuacruz]

Josh... You say you adopted out the ones you could not provide care for... It shows you were thinking about the health of the chams... and not the bulk of your collection. My comments were meant to steer the OP away from the ..."I'm keeping it, if it dies, it dies" mentality that he showed in previous posts on this thread, because he was unwilling or unable to provide the proper attention. I think that kind of mentality by the keeper... Is incredibly unfair to the captive animal... I am sure you would agree. This is where the drama comes from. On a forum with a bunch of people who are serious about the care of these amazing animals... There is bound to be some "drama" when that kind of mentality is shown by a keeper... Rightfully so as well.

joe i totally see your point, considering that kind of attitude is needed, but we shouldnt forget the title of this thread. he spent his own money to save its life. just because he doesnt want to take it to the vet doesnt mean he doesnt deserve kudos for doing what he did.

personally i think the chances are below 4.862 % that another person would have come along and purchased this sick animal, and taken it to a vet.

immho chances are about the same someone else would have seen it and purchased it and provided better care.

so the way i see it it was dead without him coming along, would i prefer it if he took him to the vet? hell yeah!, would it bother me if he had the means and just simply refused to take him, of course!. But i would never think to tell him that, i judge, but i dont like to, and when im in control over my emotions ( even if i wanted to ) i wouldnt voice voice my judgment on a thread where he was asking for advice

we are all guilty of it, ( i know i have been at times ) but we need to wake up and realize its not our place to publicly voice judgment, that contributes nothing, and helps the cham in no way.

" i would take him to the vet " is different from " you shouldnt have taken him in if you werent prepared to take him to a vet "

 

[chamelisa]

repti-aid worked well for me when i used it, if that's what the vet said then do it!

As far as I understand, the vet will be seen at 5:00 p.m. today. Someone who isn't a vet must have recommended the product through PM because it wasn't mentioned here until the OP bought the product.

 

[SoCaliSon]

I agree his heart was in the right place when he bought the cham. He asked for advice... and received a lot of good advice before he was ultimately told a vet is what the cham needed. He did not get attacked for asking for advice... he didn't get attacked until 4 pages in when he received that advice and this was his response...

"The little guy is better off with me even though he is dying..."
"Im pretty sure he would rather die with me than with them. "

Then when it was stated that the cham did not have to die... and that if he was not going to try to save the chams life that he should offer it up to a rescue that would...
and his response was...

Im keeping him.....if he dies, he dies.

Read the title of the thread.. then read those statements.. Does it sound like his intentions were really to save the life of the cham like the title says?

"we are all guilty of it, ( i know i have been at times ) but we need to wake up and realize its not our place to publicly voice judgment, that contributes nothing, and helps the cham in no way."

I'm sorry but until we voiced this judgement the cham was not going to the vet, as was accepted as dying wasn't it? In my opinion these are values that should be shared in all keepers, and discussions like this may educate some people in the ethics involved in keeping live animals.

All this really doesn't matter anymore becasue Ocelot has a vet appointment... Which is awesome!!! Like was said... Ocelot... Be sure to try to gather a fecal sample for the vet to check.... And best of luck... Follow your vets instructions and I am sure you can very well save this cham, and be the owner of a very thankful Montium!

~Joe

 

[Chameleonator]

The thing to keep in mind if you are taking your cham to a vet is to make sure it is a reputable chameleon vet. Otherwise you can be just wasting your time, money and the cham's life.

Greek and Stein are the names that comes up the most in SoCal.

 

[reyesjoshuacruz]

I agree his heart was in the right place when he bought the cham. He asked for advice... and received a lot of good advice before he was ultimately told a vet is what the cham needed. He did not get attacked for asking for advice... he didn't get attacked until 4 pages in when he received that advice and this was his response...


Then when it was stated that the cham did not have to die... and that if he was not going to try to save the chams life that he should offer it up to a rescue that would...
and his response was...



Read the title of the thread.. then read those statements.. Does it sound like his intentions were really to save the life of the cham like the title says?

"we are all guilty of it, ( i know i have been at times ) but we need to wake up and realize its not our place to publicly voice judgment, that contributes nothing, and helps the cham in no way."

I'm sorry but until we voiced this judgement the cham was not going to the vet, as was accepted as dying wasn't it? In my opinion these are values that should be shared in all keepers, and discussions like this may educate some people in the ethics involved in keeping live animals.

All this really doesn't matter anymore becasue Ocelot has a vet appointment... Which is awesome!!! Like was said... Ocelot... Be sure to try to gather a fecal sample for the vet to check.... And best of luck... Follow your vets instructions and I am sure you can very well save this cham, and be the owner of a very thankful Montium!

~Joe

Joe, joe, joe oh how do i agree with you, my passion equals yours i think.

My problem is, regardless of how i feel, I dont believe its our place to voice our opinions on someones decisions.

im glad he made the choice to take him to the vet. even though doing so most likely saved this chameleons life, i dont think its right simply because IMMHO its not our place. i dont expect everyone ( or anyone to understand ) to understand

 

[SoCaliSon]

Not trying to antogonize you Josh... But when talking about a suffering animal that can't speak up for itself... Who's place is it to say something?

This is by no means anywhere near the level... But just an analogy... But when I was a kid... I heard squealing in the yard behind ours... I peeked through the fence to see several dogs...In deplorable conditions... one being physically beaten while chained... and others appeared to have already suffered that. I pointed this out to my father and we called animal control... The owner had all of his animals confiscated... and he ended up doing a short time in prison.

I think it is the responsibitlity of the animal owner to be aware of the needs of the animals, and to cater to them... And when something is being handled incorrectly, especially if their is a live animal involved... It has to come on to somebody to say something. Should we all keep our lips zipped, and let people treat animals however they want? I am sorry but an animal is not a possession like a book you bought that you can mistreat however you like.

Like I said... I don't want to make it seem like Ocelot is cruelly abusing his animal, I was using an example to touch on the base topic here... That in fact it is our place to say something... Especially when a keeper does not understand the responsibility that they took on... and an animal could suffer. Who's place would you say it is to voice an opinion on the matter? After all he did come here for help...

 

[chamelisa]

I get you are pointing out the cost could have been used for a vet but it does look like you are saying my advise should not be taken.

You just took it out of context. I have no problem with you or your advice. The cost and the fact that he was making a hasty decision to use a product prior to the vet consult is what I was getting at. All about the OP in this thread, nothing else.

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

You just took it out of context. I have no problem with you or your advice. The cost and the fact that he was making a hasty decision to use a product prior to the vet consult is what I was getting at. All about the OP in this thread, nothing else.

Oh I know, I just wanted to complain about something.

I understood what you were saying, and agree. I think all the emotion in the thread got me caught up and over sensitive.

Gotta love all the passion. You Rock Elisa.

 

[Fearaffect]

People, stop putting this person down....he took a Cham outa a bad situation and is helping it out....my God people!!!!! Nothing but a bunch of whiners(sp?) on these forums sometimes!

AND......I am the one that recommended RepTaid to him....I told him I had some, and that since he was close to me, I would help him out if he wanted to try it..........I've had great results with my Chams and WC monitors. This product is Gesangs(Chameleon Northwest) and Sandy/Elliot are the 2 most honest and caring people that I know of in this business. They love Chameleons and they wouldnt have this product if it didnt work like it states for the majority of the animals treated. If the animal is not moving, or has a severe enough injury, yea, take to the vet....but for general lethargy, eating problems, parasite control, depression.......this stuff is great.....

 

[SoCaliSon]

People, stop putting this person down....he took a Cham outa a bad situation and is helping it out....my God people!!!!! Nothing but a bunch of whiners(sp?) on these forums sometimes!

Who put who down??? This all started casue we want to make sure he is helping the animal and not just letting it suffer in it's state. Get your worthless comments out of here...seriously...that was lame. If you are too lazy to read what this discussion is actually about then do yourself a favor and save some face by saying nothing. I mean...name calling ...really?

 

[chambabysitter1]

Who put who down??? Get your worthless comments out of here...seriously...that was lame. If you are too lazy to read what this discussion is actually about then do yourself a favor and save some face by saying nothing.

I agree with these sentiments.

Fear your post was pretty antagonizing, considering it is all after the fact.

Nobody is doubting the quality of the product, but the application. Seems like you might be backpedaling cause you offered improper advice.

 

[dodolah]

If the animal is not moving, or has a severe enough injury, yea, take to the vet....but for general lethargy, eating problems, parasite control, depression.......this stuff is great.....

Again, I compliment Ocelot for his willingness to do what is right by going to the vet!
Please do keep us updated with the diagnosis..

I think that tail injury alone, the digit abnormalities, and the fact that he is a WC is a warrant enough for the vet. There is a huge array of parasites types that a wc can possess.
Reptaid is a good product; but, I do not think it was meant to be a substitute for a vet in this situation, nor in any situation. I am sure Sandy and Elliot will agree to this.

A huge problem in this situation is assuming Reptaid to be a cure all. I am not saying Fearaffect suggested this notion to Ocelot.. But, i would like to clarify things that i often see repeating in this kind of thread. I have used Reptaid and I am still using it now. So, at the very least, I have a bit of experience with the product. I have nothing against the Reptaid product. But, it becomes quickly alarming when it often gets advertised as cure all fix all medication.

Anyway, lets move on. This is not about Reptaid nor about people being whiny.
Ocelot will be taking his chameleon to the vet.. and that's the one that matters.

 

[bimac6]

I've read this whole discussion, and I do agree with the wrong-ness of the "if it dies, it dies" quote. That is no attitude to have when you're rescuing an animal.
If you see any sort of problem, you see a vet. I haven't had to yet. But did this guy not say he's seeing a vet at 5p? At least this is happening!

 

[Chris Anderson]

I don't think I saw anyone post this link but it may be useful: http://www.chameleonnews.com/?page=article&id=40

Chris

 

[eisentrauti]

At least this product doesn't seems to be very expensive and when some people like Ryan here have had success with it, why not ?
Here in Germany vets are much expensiver than this medicine and because of that I understand everybody who prefers this. But when you take this cham to an vet please only to a expert with the reputation from other keepers here.
I heard so often from vets who say "oh a lizard" when they see a chameleon and after such a sentence you know often who knows more about those animals...

 

[dondeb562]

how did the vet visit go on this guy?

 

[jojackson]

All the bullshit of the last 8 pages aside...Ocelot357 , how is the animal doing?
I wish you success in its recovery.
cheers