just a rant!!

[xcrystalx]

i am a huge animal lover and cant stand animals suffering.

im no expert but i research before i buy any animal.i dont just look 1 place and go with that.i research online,in books etc.i look everywhere i can.lately i have been helping newbies out who have hardly any correct equipment and i help them the best i can but it makes me so angry and upset to know that animals suffering because the owner didnt do enough research and now that poor animals life is in the hands of a clueless owner.i dont want to sound harsh or unfair i just care thats all.

like i said i help them out the best i can.i dont criticise them.i try to help.some do get the correct equipment and im so happy but others you dont hear from again and your left wondering what happened to that poor creature.

i know thats what this site is for and thats great its just it deeply effects me.
theres no beating around the bush when your caring for any animal.that animal has specific needs and if you cant fullfill them then you should not have it.

many of you may feel im unfair in what im saying but im just being honest and no ones wrong for stating how they feel.i know no ones perfect.

i hope i havent offended anyone by what i have said.i have just seen alot of it and its been upsetting me.

i guess all we can do is advise people and hope they listen.

 

[nightanole]

As long as pet shops stock our "pets" you will get these people. You dont seem to have these problems with people who buy from local breeders, like dogs.

I still have people that are floored that i have a lizard vet. "you can take them to the vet? like for shots and stuff?"

 

[xcrystalx]

As long as pet shops stock our "pets" you will get these people. You dont seem to have these problems with people who buy from local breeders, like dogs.

I still have people that are floored that i have a lizard vet. "you can take them to the vet? like for shots and stuff?"

everyone who has asked for my help has brought there cham from a shop.

 

[Olimpia]

You're not alone in feeling like this, and I can tell you that as someone who has been in the other shoe (a pet store employee) it's really horrible how little pet stores help out and how little SOME pet buyers are open to learning and hearing advice (usually I've found people to be pretty receptive to advice, but seldom get good advice from pet store employees.)

I once packed up a little baby green iguana for a customer that wanted to buy one. As I'm packing him up I ask my routine questions that go along with "are you all set up for him?" And he goes "Oh yes, we've had lots of iguanas before." Intrigued (perhaps even hopeful) I ask him about it. He goes on to tell me how since they can't have dogs at their rental they have iguanas, and that they've had about 5-6 now. They "do really well" in a glass tank he has in the livingroom and when it dies they get another one.

Of course I was horrified, and I tried my best to give them a proper run-down of their needs but he was adamant that he knew what he was doing. My hands were tied, I couldn't refuse the sale, so I couldn't stop him.

Some people just simply don't care. They don't value animals as beings so much as possessions, so whether it lives one year or 25, it does't really matter. At the end of the day it's just a $15 lizard.

 

[TiyahLove]

I used to work at a horrific pet store and I would actually turn people away and that is why I got fired. When I first walked into the place one day to check it out I saw very sickly I'll animals, anything from snakes to one very poor Cham that was egg bound and my boss refused her medical treatment. I immediately applied and was hired the next day, I spent 6 months busting my butt to rid the place of mites and all other sorts of stuff. I told my boss we needed to shut the place down for a couple days so I could get multiple situations taken care of and he refused. I had to buy feeder rodents and insects to feed the snakes many hadn't eaten in over 8 months and where dying. I saved multiple animals from that place and called up a bunch of my herp friends to come pick them up for 1/2 off (because I knew them I was allowed to give an employee discount).

Many of the animals I could not save unfortunately.
My point being is MOST pet stores only care about a pretty penny instead of the well being of the animals. There are employees that give the animals their all, but when it comes time to say goodbye they can't chose that animals fate.

I love how almost all reptile breeders don't care about the money but more so the health of the animal. I never buy unless it is from a breeder that is very knowledgeable and I know what I'm getting into?

 

[xcrystalx]

i just wish that more people done more research before they take an animal into there care.

tiyahlove & olimpia.it must have been so hard going through that.i just couldnt have.

i never knew what reaction i would get from my post and i was worried because this is a fantastic site and i appreciate every person on it,but im glad that there are people who agree with what i have said.

 

[Psychedelic Chams]

Crystal that is y we are here we guide the misguided down a river of chameleon solitude and tranquility

 

[Olimpia]

I definitely did a lot to improve that store and thanks to me and my boyfriend at the time, who I also got a job there, lots of the conditions improved. Chameleons did great, as did other reptiles and amphibians, and lots more customers walked away with good knowledge. But some people you just can't help - or they don't want help!

You'll see it in this forum too, every so often someone wants help but doesn't want to hear it, because it involves making lots of changes, spending lots of money, and investing time in learning. And that's really frustrating but as long as another 15 lurking members are reading the same advice and make changes to their own husbandry then we've done all we can.

 

[xcrystalx]

as long as another 15 lurking members are reading the same advice and make changes to their own husbandry then we've done all we can.

i could not agree more!! although i still get upset by the ones im left wondering about.

 

[ir0k]

Good points. I am new to the forums. I dont have anything yet but ill been on the site for 3 weeks and am confident when i do get my cham.

Question tho, im looking for a jackson but know of no breeders here in so cal. I live 45 min from the lllreptules store in murieta. Ive done extensive research on this site already so care im not scared of. Ive owned a jackson many years ago.

This site is a great.resource and u guys are doing the cham community a great service. I understand the.frustration but you guys should feel great as your doing a great job.

Where could i find resources on breeders in the so cal area? Much appreciated for advice in advance.

Sorry for.spelling anf punctuation. Im typing from my phone

 

[Dr O]

IME this are very few times when ANY animal sold at a pet shop is as healthy as ones raised by good breeders (I'm including dogs and virtually all other pets). additionally they are often ridiculously priced. either way too much, or way too little for some sickly animal.

as a veterinarian I have always encouraged pet owners to invest the time to find a breeder for what they are looking for---you're almost always going to get a healthier and less expensive pet in the long run.

 

[Deevo]

I was going to read the post but the OP's laptop came without a space bar.

 

[Steven Davies]

Ok Crystal i fully understand where your coming from but im also one of these people who are new to the game ,i got my Chameleons from a store and didn't read up as much as i should have, But thats what i thought this forum was for ? i got my male and female veileds together they were sold to me as a pair , witch after joining this forum i now understand this is only ok while there young. The guy at the store sold me them as a pair and lead me to beleave they would live happy together.........

Im happy to say after speaking to very helpful people on here i have now ordered a 2nd Viv for my female . plus built my own nesting box for her all ready for when shes of age ( something the guy at the store told me nothing about)

He also sold me two large bags of beach chip witch "will look great in your Viv" towitch are now sitting in the bottom of my waste bin thanks to the very helpful info iv gotten from here.

I can assure you every bit of information i get from here if used and can assure you theres no suffering with my two beautiful little Veiled babys.

Iv had them just over a week and a half and im besotted with them both already and ill do anything in my power to make sure they live a long healthy happy life.

 

[Balizar]

This is something that is common with every animal. I also happen to think chams are a lot more involved than a dog. BUT you will have starters no matter what. That is how most people got here. People walk in to a pet store and they fall in love and people love selling to them. I think it is great that any newbie comes here and asks for help. I agree doing it before hand would be nice but once you see that cham and you want it... Just saying keep having patience with them I think that's awesome. Most people on here are polite but I have seen people belittle a lot of people who come here for help.

I have only seen one person who deserved being belittled on this page and he had a cage with 2 sticks and no plant life fake or real!!! HAHA

Thanks for being polite with newbies!!!

 

[barbara]

I worked in a pet shop years ago but I was always getting in trouble for questioning customers, most of the time I came home in tears worrying about the animals so I left my job.

 

[PoshPenny]

I definitely did a lot to improve that store and thanks to me and my boyfriend at the time, who I also got a job there, lots of the conditions improved. Chameleons did great, as did other reptiles and amphibians, and lots more customers walked away with good knowledge. But some people you just can't help - or they don't want help!

You'll see it in this forum too, every so often someone wants help but doesn't want to hear it, because it involves making lots of changes, spending lots of money, and investing time in learning. And that's really frustrating but as long as another 15 lurking members are reading the same advice and make changes to their own husbandry then we've done all we can.

I was a lurker when I first got Frita. First thing I did was return the coconut substrate the pet store sold me. I don't know what I'd done if I hadn't found this site.

 

[Wootsmom]

Been a long time lurker for research purposes and first time poster.

Regarding pet stores, sometimes people want to rescue a creature from a pet store because they know what life is like there. Many people will say it aids an unscrupulous industry, but you could say the same for zoos and other areas of life. Most likely the clothing you wear were made with the type of sweatshop labor you'd never want for yourself or your kids. I don't blame people who buy from pet shops because I have that same urge to take something out of that environment. I wanted to "Free Willy", too.

People could say that even having a chameleon when many are wild caught in areas that are "on the brink" is contributing to a bad practice.

Why don't your chameleons want to be touched and handled? Because they are afraid you'll eat them because to them you're a predator. Is that life inside the nice big cage anywhere near as "free" or natural as being in the wild?

Why can't people raise Parson's successfully? Because you can't replicate nature very well.

The PETA folks would say all of you are in the wrong to even own these odd critters as pets.

So while it bothers some of you that some people don't do enough research, there are those that are bothered that you've done the research and still want to keep a wild thing as a pet.

I guess this is a horrible first post, but I was really disappointed by this thread. Everyone starts somewhere. The fact that people chose to join a forum and engage people for help shows to me that they do care. Most of the apathetic would buy the cage and then the book and throw out the dead body when all is said and done.

I have owned reptiles into old age, as well as, other animals and this forum was my first step towards ownership (maybe) this year. I'm now a little down on the topic. Maybe I read the posts here wrong, and I hope so, but I am now less likely to ask for help than before.

 

[PoshPenny]

Been a long time lurker for research purposes and first time poster.



Regarding pet stores, sometimes people want to rescue a creature from a pet store because they know what life is like there. Many people will say it aids an unscrupulous industry, but you could say the same for zoos and other areas of life. Most likely the clothing you wear were made with the type of sweatshop labor you'd never want for yourself or your kids. I don't blame people who buy from pet shops because I have that same urge to take something out of that environment. I wanted to "Free Willy", too.



People could say that even having a chameleon when many are wild caught in areas that are "on the brink" is contributing to a bad practice.



Why don't your chameleons want to be touched and handled? Because they are afraid you'll eat them because to them you're a predator. Is that life inside the nice big cage anywhere near as "free" or natural as being in the wild?



Why can't people raise Parson's successfully? Because you can't replicate nature very well.



The PETA folks would say all of you are in the wrong to even own these odd critters as pets.



So while it bothers some of you that some people don't do enough research, there are those that are bothered that you've done the research and still want to keep a wild thing as a pet.



I guess this is a horrible first post, but I was really disappointed by this thread. Everyone starts somewhere. The fact that people chose to join a forum and engage people for help shows to me that they do care. Most of the apathetic would buy the cage and then the book and throw out the dead body when all is said and done.



I have owned reptiles into old age, as well as, other animals and this forum was my first step towards ownership (maybe) this year. I'm now a little down on the topic. Maybe I read the posts here wrong, and I hope so, but I am now less likely to ask for help than before.

I know sometimes posts can sound snarky. It's really the problem the written word-it can be interpreted wrong or worse offend when no offense was meant.

I can only speak from personal experiences on this page that you have your happy to help members and mods, and then you have some that can make you feel like an outsider. But at the end of the day, with members like ferret, trace, flux, Jann, lathis, dr.o, melbs, olimpia, and Carlton, and a few more I can't think of, they are real people with real heart and will help you without judgment. Iv received help from all these people and iv not felt judged by any of them. Don't be afraid to ask for help, there are and there is great people on this site who will welcome you just like they did me and all the other new comers. I'll help you anyway I can with what iv learned if you ever need it.

And for a first post at least you were honest. And that's all anyone can ask for. Talking honestly and respectfully to each other. Best wishes.

 

[Wootsmom]

I used to be anti-pet stores, anti-zoos and even a vegetarian. I've mellowed and relaxed. I understand the urge behind pet shop purchases and I think its a human desire to fix something or help. Maybe people get in over their heads but so did the pet store probably.

I've been lurking for a long, long time. I've read happy stories, sad stories, and have been grateful for the wealth of information I have received just by reading.

Perhaps I was too harsh.

 

[tony19]

as a veterinarian I have always encouraged pet owners to invest the time to find a breeder for what they are looking for---you're almost always going to get a healthier and less expensive pet in the long run.

I agree that's were I get l my reptiles

I was going to read the post but the OP's laptop came without a space bar.

so what was the point in posting any thing at all then. I see nothing wrong with the ops spacing.