Jello Gutload??

[cyberlocc]

Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone has tried using Agar Agar for a "Jello Gutload".

I'm looking into these beetles, and they say they love the jello. And bugs in cyberspace sells it for roaches too.

Still add veggies and such, from time to time, but a constant supply of this Gutload intrigued me.

https://lovingitvegan.com/vegan-jello/

That with fruit and veggie juice, and mix in bee pollen and splirinua, maybe some MV in the mix, would it still not mold? Just a thought of mine, for a constant food access, that won't mold of cause FFs.

 

[snitz427]

its used in the hornworm and silkworm chow to keep its form. I think it would still be susceptible to mold, based on your other ingredients.

 

[cyberlocc]

its used in the hornworm and silkworm chow to keep its form. I think it would still be susceptible to mold, based on your other ingredients.

Which part though?

The beetle jellies, are made with 100% fruit juice and claim to be mold free. They are however a single fruit per cup, and lack the bee pollen and splirinua.

I did track the beetle jelly down. This is it I think but they claim 100% fruit juice and that doesn't say that. https://www.amazon.com/LKK-Free-Fruit-Assorted-Jelly/dp/B009S1K2V4


Edit: it's probably this one. https://www.keyfood.com//pd/LKK/Natural-Fruit-Jelly/3-08-lb/081652092339/

 

[cyberlocc]

So found some more info.

Idk what Agar Agar is, and the Seaweed requires boiling. But the last one seems good, it's got calcium in it, is said to be soft and sets in cold water.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...tutes-for-gelatin-tips-from-the-kitchn-189478

Got to experiment with it I guess.

My biggest reasonsing for wanting to do so, is tricking beetles lol. Beetles won't eat greens only fruits, so using the jelly with a greens juice mixed in, maybe they will eat that. If it's healthy and works for roaches too, double nice .

Time to buy a juicer . If I can sneak some kale and Dandelion in with mango and orange and stuff, and get them to suck it down that would be awesome, I can add a little stevia for sweetness to be sure they take it.

 

[snitz427]

The juice will mold if not refrigerated, after a few days. I think the bee pollen and spirulina would be ok, just whatever else you add in that might mold after a few days at room temp.

I was doing gut load cubes with bug burger and then mixed in all the other stuff, similiar concept... so they were eating everything. I got some of those fruit jellies as a freebie in a recent roach order, just haven't tried them out yet. They were expensive, too, like $5 for like 1/4cup of jello!

 

[cyberlocc]

The juice will mold if not refrigerated, after a few days. I think the bee pollen and spirulina would be ok, just whatever else you add in that might mold after a few days at room temp.

I was doing gut load cubes with bug burger and then mixed in all the other stuff, similiar concept... so they were eating everything. I got some of those fruit jellies as a freebie in a recent roach order, just haven't tried them out yet. They were expensive, too, like $5 for like 1/4cup of jello!

Yes they are extremely expesensive. That's partly why I want to DIY it.

Like you said, with the roaches you can give them anything they will eat it. Beetles, Fruit/Flower beetles will not, they only eat sweets, if it isn't sweet they won't eat it. Well, sweets and decaying wood, but AFAIK, and have read Dandelion, kale, carrot, they won't touch it. So sneaking it in would be cool.

I'm not too worried about molding after a few days, if the Agar even slows it's that's cool. Fruit molds in a few hours in my roach colonys.

Something like this could also work. Have to make sure it's safe for buggies/chams though. https://www.ckproducts.com/79-60704#productdescription

 

[snitz427]

what kind of beetles do you have? are they for your CUC or are you raising a beetle feeder?

 

[cyberlocc]

what kind of beetles do you have? are they for your CUC or are you raising a beetle feeder?

Don't have them yet, few more weeks before my seller has any. That's why I am trying to prepare.

Harlequin Flower Beetles.

They are feeders, grubs and beetles. They are much to big to be CUC, they are 3/4, to 1inch long.

They also, don't clean anything lol. They are fruit scarabs. They will eat rotting hardwood as grubs, like Oak, and apple as grubs.

As adults they eat Banana, Strawberry, Apple, Mango, Orange ect. They don't eat mold, they don't eat greens, ect. They will nimble on decaying hardwood, that's it. Other than sweet fruits.


Beetles, outside of like the ones we use as CuCs are pretty demanding in their diets and substrates, they are very picky.


This is a US native, and others in the family you have probably seen. They are the family of beetle that flys into your house likes it drunk, swerving and hitting walls. They don't fly very well lol.

From what I was told, this ones don't even try unless they have a large open Viv, and then they just flutter into a wall and sit back down.

 

[cyberlocc]

Okay, so more research later has me on a recipe.

The recipe consists of Brown Sugar, Bananna or Apple, Honey, Agar Agar, and optionally Orange juice. They also said they were able to sneak in some veggies and powders and the beetles still ate it.

As long as the end mix is sweet and tastes like Brown Sugar and fruits they will eat it.


So my plan, and recipe I am about to try 2 blends.


Blend 1: (Beetle Staple, Roach/Cricket/Isopod Treat)

1 very ripe banana (mashed into paste). (About a Cup)
1 cup of Organic Applesauce (use what matches the bannana, so half and half).
2 TSP of Organic Honey.
2 TSPs of Bee pollen
2 TSPs of Splirinua
80 Grams (16 TSPs) of Orangic Brown sugar.
1/2 to 1tsp of Agar Agar (depending on consistency)
1/2 Cup Orange juice (Orangic 100% orange juice) (optional)
1 1/2 Cup RO water.


Blend 2: (Roach/Cricket/Isopod Staple, along with dry Gutload)

2 cups of mixed Veggies/Fruit baby food. The mix will change, but Apple, Squash, Sweet Patato, Carrot mix with some others added maybe)
2 TSP of Organic Honey.
2 TSPs of Bee pollen
2 TSPs of Splirinua
2tsp Dandelion Powder (idk if root powder is the same as leaf powder, but hopefully I can find leaf powder)
1/2 to 1tsp of Agar Agar (depending on consistency)
1/2 Cup Orange juice (Orangic 100% orange juice) (optional)
1 1/2 Cup RO water.

Blend all together except Agar Agar, and water.

Bring water and Agar Agar to a boil, make sure Agar Agar is fully disolved.

Mix in the mix from the blender, slowly and allow the complete mix to boil fully for a few mins.

Poor into a cooling dish and cut up into cubes and your done.


More Agar Agar makes a firmer jelly, however it also makes it harder for some bugs to eat. Less Agar Agar makes a softer jelly, however it will liquify in a hot enclosure, kind of sweat.

The orange juice is optional, I have heard too much orange acids can be bad. However the Orange Acids also act as a perservative, and bugs love orange. So I would add in, I seen it in 1 recipe, and they said it helps it keep longer.

This mixture will keep in the fridge in a tightly sealed container, for a long time. And when served will stay good for 3-5 days. Which is much much longer than fresh fruit and veggies, though I would still serve those from time to time as well.

Hope this helps someone, to me it seems like a decent staple Gutload, that is easier to manage, and very nutritious. I would limit the sugar mix, for roaches and such and maybe serve as a treat, I don't know how insects/reptiles deal with sugar, but that's alot of Sugar. But that's the only way beetles will eat it.

 

[GoodKarma19]

Okay, so more research later has me on a recipe.

The recipe consists of Brown Sugar, Bananna or Apple, Honey, Agar Agar, and optionally Orange juice. They also said they were able to sneak in some veggies and powders and the beetles still ate it.

As long as the end mix is sweet and tastes like Brown Sugar and fruits they will eat it.


So my plan, and recipe I am about to try 2 blends.


Blend 1: (Beetle Staple, Roach/Cricket/Isopod Treat)

1 very ripe banana (mashed into paste). (About a Cup)
1 cup of Organic Applesauce (use what matches the bannana, so half and half).
2 TSP of Organic Honey.
2 TSPs of Bee pollen
2 TSPs of Splirinua
80 Grams (16 TSPs) of Orangic Brown sugar.
1/2 to 1tsp of Agar Agar (depending on consistency)
1/2 Cup Orange juice (Orangic 100% orange juice) (optional)
1 1/2 Cup RO water.


Blend 2: (Roach/Cricket/Isopod Staple, along with dry Gutload)

2 cups of mixed Veggies/Fruit baby food. The mix will change, but Apple, Squash, Sweet Patato, Carrot mix with some others added maybe)
2 TSP of Organic Honey.
2 TSPs of Bee pollen
2 TSPs of Splirinua
2tsp Dandelion Powder (idk if root powder is the same as leaf powder, but hopefully I can find leaf powder)
1/2 to 1tsp of Agar Agar (depending on consistency)
1/2 Cup Orange juice (Orangic 100% orange juice) (optional)
1 1/2 Cup RO water.

Blend all together except Agar Agar, and water.

Bring water and Agar Agar to a boil, make sure Agar Agar is fully disolved.

Mix in the mix from the blender, slowly and allow the complete mix to boil fully for a few mins.

Poor into a cooling dish and cut up into cubes and your done.


More Agar Agar makes a firmer jelly, however it also makes it harder for some bugs to eat. Less Agar Agar makes a softer jelly, however it will liquify in a hot enclosure, kind of sweat.

The orange juice is optional, I have heard too much orange acids can be bad. However the Orange Acids also act as a perservative, and bugs love orange. So I would add in, I seen it in 1 recipe, and they said it helps it keep longer.

This mixture will keep in the fridge in a tightly sealed container, for a long time. And when served will stay good for 3-5 days. Which is much much longer than fresh fruit and veggies, though I would still serve those from time to time as well.

Hope this helps someone, to me it seems like a decent staple Gutload, that is easier to manage, and very nutritious. I would limit the sugar mix, for roaches and such and maybe serve as a treat, I don't know how insects/reptiles deal with sugar, but that's alot of Sugar. But that's the only way beetles will eat it.

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing, Cyber. I've been freezing/thawing things, but I think I'll giving this a shot next time I start running low on gutload!

 

[cyberlocc]

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing, Cyber. I've been freezing/thawing things, but I think I'll giving this a shot next time I start running low on gutload!

That's what I have always done as well. However the beetles need the first recipe, and jello.

So I figured might as well see if the roaches like that. It's certainly alot easier.

 

[GoodKarma19]

That's what I have always done as well. However the beetles need the first recipe, and jello.

So I figured might as well see if the roaches like that. It's certainly alot easier.

For sure! Anything I can give in larger amounts that won't mold after a day is a big perk!

 

[cyberlocc]

For sure! Anything I can give in larger amounts that wont molding after a day is a big perk!

Ya I was told it's good 2-3 without Orange Juice, and 4-5 with Orange Juice. Roaches love Oranges so worth a shot.

I have not tested this yet. However I was also lead to believe that Fruit Flys, cannot / will not eat the jello so no more FF issues.

 

[GoodKarma19]

Ya I was told it's good 2-3 without Orange Juice, and 4-5 with Orange Juice. Roaches love Oranges so worth a shot.

I have not tested this yet. However I was also lead to believe that Fruit Flys, cannot / will not eat the jello so no more FF issues.

Oh man, fewer fruit flies would be amazing! I've had to darn near completely cut out fruit from my gutload, as the flies were getting ridiculously excessive! Let me know how it goes, and you might have yourself a jello convert!

 

[jamest0o0]

I had one of those premade fruit jello cups and it molded pretty fast. I have another one that I haven't used.

Keep us updated on these guys, always wanted them to be part of my master cham enclosure one day! I've heard their grubs aren't as picky as other beetle grubs and do fine in communities(I believe many are cannibalistic).

Stinkbugs fly like they're drunk as well. I wondered if they could be bred as well, my chams liked eating them. Some are bright green and pretty cool looking too.

 

[cyberlocc]

I had one of those premade fruit jello cups and it molded pretty fast. I have another one that I haven't used.

Keep us updated on these guys, always wanted them to be part of my master cham enclosure one day! I've heard their grubs aren't as picky as other beetle grubs and do fine in communities(I believe many are cannibalistic).

Stinkbugs fly like they're drunk as well. I wondered if they could be bred as well, my chams liked eating them. Some are bright green and pretty cool looking too.

Which one did you have? How long for the mold estimate?

I seen this stay fresh stuff, that is supposed to make fruits and veggies stay fresh longer at Walmart but I'm not sure if it's safe.

And yes, they are the least demanding beetles, I been told. They have to have alot of decaying leaf litter in their soil, but they require less fermented wood than others. It's said garden center compost with some leaf litter will work. Also they can be kept communally like you said most can't. So they are cool little beetles.