Jackson's Subspecies

[ElleArranda]

So I bought a few chams week and a half ago (from a guy on craigslist that kept them altogether in a cage, ugh) and I'm trying to determine subspecies. I'm thinking she's Trioceros jacksonii merumontanus but would like input. I don't see females with these type horns... and I thought it was too gravid looking to be male.

 

[ElleArranda]

This male I think is Trioceros jacksonii xantholophus. I'm not sure what size he should be. I took him to the vet (he was just skin and bones at 37 grams) and she put him on the Mazrui diet along with typical feeders.

 

[ElleArranda]

He had more in the cage... I just bought what I have the facilities for. He said someone had babies that morning and I grabbed the female I expected had them so she could recover with me. He kept the babies, unfortunately. I've had her on the Mazuri diet. I want to get them all tested for parasites. I'm going to have my hands full for awhile. I know that. But I'm in this boat now.

I'm thinking Trioceors jacksonii jacksonii

 

[Beman]

@JacksJill will be able to help you.

 

[JacksJill]

Post #1 is a T. jacksonii jacksonii female. Odds are she is pregnant.
Post #2 is a T. j. xantholophus male
Post #3 is a T. jacksonii jacksonii female. She is an old girl probably wild caught and likely to have another litter.
I am basing all of this off the spines along the back and their tail bases.
Merumontanus have not been imported for many years and I don't know of any breeders who still have any. Their horns are much thinner and their spines are spaced differently.

 

[JacksJill]

I don't know if you have kept theses species before but here is some info on their supplement schedule. They need less than panthers or veiled. My Jackson's Supplement Schedule. Other info Jackson's Chameleon Articles and Studies

 

[ElleArranda]

I appreciate the info! I've kept T. j. xantholophus and Trioceros hoehnelli before. I'll take all the info I can get. Thank you!

You said that you're basing this off of the spines along the back and their tail bases - is there a webpage I can go to learn this skill myself?

 

[JacksJill]

I appreciate the info! I've kept T. j. xantholophus and Trioceros hoehnelli before. I'll take all the info I can get. Thank you!

You said that you're basing this off of the spines along the back and their tail bases - is there a webpage I can go to learn this skill myself?

Would you ask a magician to reveal the secret to their illusions. Outrageous!
I'm just messing with you the article is in the second link I gave you above. Specifically it's in this link.

• Article on the three recognized species of Jackson's Chameleons and some care and breeding information. Chameleons Online E-Zine by Kent Manchen http://www.chameleonnews.com/10JulManchen.html
  When I appraise the spines for species it is best to look at the ones on the mid back as the ones just behind the neck can be confusing. I use the tail base to judge the sex. Males will have a bulge underneath just as panthers do but a little more subtle. The females will have thinner tail that is straight all the way back. This doesn't work well in sexing young juveniles as some males develop later than others. Errors can occur. If it passes slugs or has babies it is always a female .

 

[ElleArranda]

Much obliged

 

[kinyonga]

You might like these too...
https://chameleonacademy.com/trioceros-jacksonii-merumontanus/

https://chameleonacademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/GuideToTheFormsofTJacksoniiA.pdf

 

[GrannyK]

These are beautiful, thank you for trying to save them. They are lucky to have you!

 

[ElleArranda]

So I bought a few chams week and a half ago (from a guy on craigslist that kept them altogether in a cage, ugh) and I'm trying to determine subspecies. I'm thinking she's Trioceros jacksonii merumontanus but would like input. I don't see females with these type horns... and I thought it was too gravid looking to be male.

Guys, I need immediate help. This female (in the message I'm replying too) just had babies this morning and I'm ready for them (yay!) But... her side popped in the birthing process. Some blood but mostly whiteish/ yellowish fluid is coming out. Obviously I'm on hold with the vet rn.

 

[Beman]

@JacksJill

 

[kinyonga]

Photos please so we can see what you mean

Vet visit with a good chameleon vet right away is likely the best option.

 

[JacksJill]

I'm at a loss about her side popping? Usually at the end of the birthing they may pass a few yellow slugs, egg yolk like things. they can turn white if they get wet. Popping open sounds surgical at best I hope they can do something for her.

 

[ElleArranda]

Sorry to leave yall on ice! I was busy with the vet and babies and in complete freak out mode....
Update: mom and all 14 babies are all alive and well.
It appears that the mother was rubbing her side on the cage walls and foliage while walking around giving birth. Something presumably was rubbed to harshly and cut her side. She had enough internal pressure that she was gushing fluids from her side. (See photo of her vertical.) Once all the babies were born the side stopped leaking and she ate and drank and it healed over remarkably well within hours. (See photo of her upside-down.) Sorry for my complete panic but there was nothing in the podcasts about this lol!

 

[Sonny13]

Luckily they´re all fine, including yourself. Wow, never seen or read about this, thanks for sharing. No vet interfered with the wound?

 

[ElleArranda]

It was examined but they determined that the wound wasn't as deep as the liquid loss made it appear. No interference. Idk if that was the right move or not (the vet hadn't seen this before either). It seems to have worked out though.

 

[Sonny13]

It was examined but they determined that the wound wasn't as deep as the liquid loss made it appear. No interference. Idk if that was the right move or not (the vet hadn't seen this before either). It seems to have worked out though.

It looks like, at least on the pictures, that’s healing up, then it was probably a good move.

 

[JacksJill]

Great news. What a relief.