jackson chameleon keeping eyes closed :(

[TwisteD]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - jackson, male, i was told it was around 6 months old when i got him back in october of last year.
Handling - not often, only when i need to take him out to clean the cage
Feeding - I mostly feed him crickets, every now and then i get him worms. They are gutloaded from petco.
Supplements - I have not been dusting now because he does not eat them for some reason when he sees they're covered in the repti-calcium.
Watering - I mist him by hand for a bit every day, couple times a day. And have a dripper. I did see him drink.
Fecal Description -I'm not sure when the last time he pooped was, but i see some white on the floor of the cage.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - its a screen cage, i believe its 32x32x16 or close to that, plenty of room for him.
Lighting - I have 1 100w heat bulb, and a 5.0 UVB light from exo-terra i believe.
Temperature - around 80ish at the top, 75ish at the bottom.
Humidity - I'm not sure what the humidity is as my gauge broke. I mist to keep it up and have live plants.
Plants - Yes, dwarf scheferella I believe, or umbrella plant.
Placement - it is in the corner of my room, there is a fan in the middle of my room and a vent on the complete opposite side. The cage is on a stand so it is a good height above the ground.
Location - las vegas

Current Problem - about a week ago i bought a new very large plant for my chameleon, and it seems like since i put it in, he has been sleeping very low towards the ground, and sleeping early. I didn't think anything of it. Then yesterday he would move, kept his eyes closed, tail curled, even if i touched him or moved the cage a bit, he wouldn't really move which is strange for him. I decided to take out the plant, and he did move a bit, and luckily went under my dripper and took a shower/drink, and did that multiple times, and i sprayed directly onto him as well. He also has bulged his eyes out a couple times yesterday and rubbed them onto vines. I have not seen him eat, although he did look at a worm i was trying to feed him for quite a while. as of right now he is sitting with his eyes closed and its not even 1PM. I want to see if there is anything i can do before i have to take him to the vet, i heard vitamin a could help?

Any advice is greatly appreciated, I'm very worried about my lil guy. Thank you

 

[TwisteD]

i forgot to mention, before getting the plant, he did sleep early sometimes, but never like how he does now. And usually before he was walk around ALOT, he was VERY active and would eat/drink normally.

 

[ridgebax1]

There are a couple things I would change in your husbandry: increase your temps slightly and make sure you have adequate amounts of humiditiy. It sounds like your chameleon is trying to clean its eyes by bulging them out and rubbing them. So it could be you need more humidity in your enclosure.
Also you really do need to dust your feeders. If your cham rejects them it could be there is too much dust on the bugs; Maybe you could get around it by feeding silkworms hornworms or phoenix worms several times a week so it gets adequate calcium but you will still need to supplement D3 and vitamins. I would put your cham in the shower for 15-30 minutes to try to help it clean out his eyes. Direct the warm water against the shower wall and put the cham on a plant inside the shower.
I would try this before Vitamin A; I have not kept Jackson's and I know their requirements are different so hopefully someone with more Jackson experience will contribute.

 

[TwisteD]

i've started running my cool mist humidifier, hopefully that helps. I'm really worried right now though because hes slouched over with his eyes closed, barely hanging on vertically on the mesh/vine. I sprayed him with warm water and he moved a bit so I know hes still alive. Unfortunately the vet is closed today..

 

[Lovereps]

Welcome to the forum!
I'm sorry that your cham is having problems.

You are right to be worried about because daytime sleeping means he is sick and needs to be treated by a vet with chameleon experience or at least a lot of reptile experience.

How do I know this?
In nature, chams must hide all signs that they're sick, so that they don't become someone else's dinner.
Because of this need, they do all that they possibly can to look healthy even when they aren't.
Healthy chams never close their eyes in the daytime and they don't sleep in the daytime.
Doing these things makes them very easy targets for predators.


Most of us have been given some bad care advice at one time and I'm guessing that you've had that happen too.

Some of your care is great but there are some significant things that need to be changed for him to get healthy after the vet treats him.

I do keep (and breed) Jackson's chams and I'm going to contradict one thing that ridgebax1 advised.
Don't increase his cage temperature.
In fact, I suspect that that is at least part of what has caused his health problems.
I suspect that your cham is dehydrated and needs extra water right away.
Dehydration would explain why your cham doesn't want to eat food with dry powder on it---it's because he's already very thirsty and needs more water immediately.

DO "shower " your cham like this :

Place a large plant in the tub, aim the shower head against the wall, and run the water so that only a fine mist reaches the chameleon. The water should be room temperature (not hot!). They may drink for up to 30 minutes. Make sure to supervise your chameleon at all times while using this method.
More info here https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/water/
You said you mist him by hand for a bit every day, couple times a day but if it's too hot, he needs more water, if the air is too dry he needs more water and generally, Jackson's need more water than many other kinds of chams.

You absolutely need an accurate temperature reading and accurate humidity readings.
Chameleons are rather delicate and can't adapt to temperatures and humidity that are very different from what they would experience in the wild.
You probably measured the temperature months ago when it was cooler in your house. Now that the house is hotter, your cham is hotter, too.
I have never used a 100 watt basking bulb on my chams, even when they've been in 60 degree rooms. It just makes it too hot for Jackson's chams.
Incandescent bulbs put out a lot of heat.
Typical surface temperatures of light bulbs themselves can range from 150 to over 250 degrees, so if the room is about 80 degrees because it's summertime, then it must be very hot near that bulb.

The new plant may have also played a part in his problems. It is a safe type of plant but new plants must be cleaned of fertilizer and pesticide residues before they're safe to use, since chams drink water off of the leaves and walk on the plant, eat bugs off the plant, etc. .

Did you thoroughly wash the leaves with soap and water, then rinse them off well before putting it into his cage?
If unwashed, then something on the plant leaves could have made him sick.
Also could the new plant been blocking his mistings from reaching him?
Jackson's need to be misted directly for a few minutes before they realize they should drink.
If they always drink immediately, it's a sign they need more frequent mistings, higher humidity and/or lowered temps.

You said "I mostly feed him crickets, every now and then i get him worms. They are gutloaded from petco."
Ever hear the saying, "You are what you eat."?
It is especially true of chameleons.
Nutrient deficient crickets and worms result in nutrient deficient chameleons.
I know that some store sell "gutloaded" feeders, often for more money.
Truth is what were they gutloaded with and was all the food already consumed by the time you bought them or is the food now moldy?
Commercial "gutloads" can be very low in nutrients or just have some good nutrients and are missing many others.
Some others are wonderful for cricket growth but rather bad for the pets that eat those crickets.
That's why it's much better for you to be in control of what the feeder insects eat.
In the wild, chameleons don't get vitamin or calcium deficiencies because they are eating many different kinds of bugs.
We can't offer our chams a bug farm, but we can use several different kinds of bugs and feed the bugs nutritious food, so our chams get the most nutrients from them.
More details are here: https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/food/

Please let us know if he improves after a long showering as was described above.

 

[Lazy Boy]

Just FYI you should gut load your crickets. Petco just feeds them to keep them alive and are far from gut loading them.

 

[TwisteD]

Welcome to the forum!
I'm sorry that your cham is having problems.

You are right to be worried about because daytime sleeping means he is sick and needs to be treated by a vet with chameleon experience or at least a lot of reptile experience.

How do I know this?
In nature, chams must hide all signs that they're sick, so that they don't become someone else's dinner.
Because of this need, they do all that they possibly can to look healthy even when they aren't.
Healthy chams never close their eyes in the daytime and they don't sleep in the daytime.
Doing these things makes them very easy targets for predators.


Most of us have been given some bad care advice at one time and I'm guessing that you've had that happen too.

Some of your care is great but there are some significant things that need to be changed for him to get healthy after the vet treats him.

I do keep (and breed) Jackson's chams and I'm going to contradict one thing that ridgebax1 advised.
Don't increase his cage temperature.
In fact, I suspect that that is at least part of what has caused his health problems.
I suspect that your cham is dehydrated and needs extra water right away.
Dehydration would explain why your cham doesn't want to eat food with dry powder on it---it's because he's already very thirsty and needs more water immediately.

DO "shower " your cham like this :

Place a large plant in the tub, aim the shower head against the wall, and run the water so that only a fine mist reaches the chameleon. The water should be room temperature (not hot!). They may drink for up to 30 minutes. Make sure to supervise your chameleon at all times while using this method.
More info here https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/water/
You said you mist him by hand for a bit every day, couple times a day but if it's too hot, he needs more water, if the air is too dry he needs more water and generally, Jackson's need more water than many other kinds of chams.

You absolutely need an accurate temperature reading and accurate humidity readings.
Chameleons are rather delicate and can't adapt to temperatures and humidity that are very different from what they would experience in the wild.
You probably measured the temperature months ago when it was cooler in your house. Now that the house is hotter, your cham is hotter, too.
I have never used a 100 watt basking bulb on my chams, even when they've been in 60 degree rooms. It just makes it too hot for Jackson's chams.
Incandescent bulbs put out a lot of heat.
Typical surface temperatures of light bulbs themselves can range from 150 to over 250 degrees, so if the room is about 80 degrees because it's summertime, then it must be very hot near that bulb.

The new plant may have also played a part in his problems. It is a safe type of plant but new plants must be cleaned of fertilizer and pesticide residues before they're safe to use, since chams drink water off of the leaves and walk on the plant, eat bugs off the plant, etc. .

Did you thoroughly wash the leaves with soap and water, then rinse them off well before putting it into his cage?
If unwashed, then something on the plant leaves could have made him sick.
Also could the new plant been blocking his mistings from reaching him?
Jackson's need to be misted directly for a few minutes before they realize they should drink.
If they always drink immediately, it's a sign they need more frequent mistings, higher humidity and/or lowered temps.

You said "I mostly feed him crickets, every now and then i get him worms. They are gutloaded from petco."
Ever hear the saying, "You are what you eat."?
It is especially true of chameleons.
Nutrient deficient crickets and worms result in nutrient deficient chameleons.
I know that some store sell "gutloaded" feeders, often for more money.
Truth is what were they gutloaded with and was all the food already consumed by the time you bought them or is the food now moldy?
Commercial "gutloads" can be very low in nutrients or just have some good nutrients and are missing many others.
Some others are wonderful for cricket growth but rather bad for the pets that eat those crickets.
That's why it's much better for you to be in control of what the feeder insects eat.
In the wild, chameleons don't get vitamin or calcium deficiencies because they are eating many different kinds of bugs.
We can't offer our chams a bug farm, but we can use several different kinds of bugs and feed the bugs nutritious food, so our chams get the most nutrients from them.
More details are here: https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/food/

Please let us know if he improves after a long showering as was described above.

Thank you for your reply. I scheduled an appointment with a vet tomorrow. I will also start gutloading my crickets myself. As for the plant, I didn't wash it with soap, but it did wash it a lot with water. I'm thinking a cricket he ate must have started eating the soil or something from the plant which made him sick. Very stupid of me and I regret that a lot. I will also take note of all the changes you said to make if he gets better. Also how should i take him out of the cage, because he is holding on to the mesh, and I do not want to pull him off and stress him out even more. What can I do? should i just keep misting him? If he really is sick because of the plant, is there anything I can do besides wait for the vet tomorrow?



Thank you so much

 

[TwisteD]

Here is a picture. His eye seems to be turning brown a bit.. is this a really bad sign? or is there still a chance he will be fine?

 

[Lovereps]

That darkness around the eye is typically an indicator of dehydration.

Since he's on the screen, I would take the lights off the cage, take the plant out, move the cage into the shower and then put the plant back in.

You can manually mist him until he drinks his fill but you'll probably get hand cramps long before that happens.

I had confused your post with another but this may pertain to you, if you haven't used this vet yet:
You can post the name of the vet you're considering and perhaps someone here is familiar with them.
You can click on the 2 links here to find vets https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/healthx/vet/, or search past posts and possibly find a good vet or post your location and perhaps someone from your area can recommend one.
In Florida and CA there are some truly excellent vets with plenty of cham experience.
As I recall, Florida has Dr Ivan Alfonso, who only makes house calls, if I'm not mistaken---and he became a vet because he loves chameleons.
Makes me wish I lived close enough to have him as my chams' vet.


The vet can give him an injection of fluids and electrolytes under his skin to help him to recover.

Hope your handsome fellow makes a turnaround for you.
Please update us , especially after the vet.
I'd be sure to emphasize that it's urgent so they can see him tomorrow.

 

[kinyonga]

What was the plant you added?

 

[Lovereps]

Kinyonga, since I saw your post and he's not presently online....he said he'd recently added the Umbrella Plant/Schefflera that you can see a bit of in the pic.

 

[TwisteD]

Thank you so much lovereps. I'm going to do that tomorrow because it's late now and he's probably trying to sleep. Seeing a chameleon in this condition is really heartbreaking. Hopefully the lil guys ok for tonight, shower tomorrow for sure since the has signs of dehydration. I will also post the plant I had taken out that might have caused the provlem. Also one more question, why is it that he moves with his eyes closed and just keeps them closed in general? It must mean he is very ill since he's not trying to hide it, but what is the actual reason for closing them?


Thanks!

 

[TwisteD]

Here is the plant. I'm thinking the soil block/stand thing was eaten by the crickets, then eaten by my chameleon. Hopefully it's not too serious..

 

[TwisteD]

So it's 4AM, and I notice he's moving, I turn on the light and he opened his eyes and moved to a vine. His eyes look really bad and sunken. I noticed he has a jelly/bloody substance on the side of his mouth, and there was some on a vine. I'm not sure if he pooped on the vine and fell into it, or if it's vomit... either way he's not doing too good, I hope he makes it.

 

[Lovereps]

We're all hoping for the best for him.
Please keep us up to date.

 

[ridgebax1]

Two good feeders to keep on hand that can help with rehydration are hornworms and silkworms. Be very careful if you try to give him water from a syringe as it is very easy to get the water in the lungs which will cause a respiratory infection. Sunken eyes is also an indicator of dehydration. Sandrachameleon has several blog postings regarding feeding of the chameleon and gutloading the feeders. Pet stores do not truly gutload crickets. They may throw in a slice of potato or some of those orange cubes which are not part of a gutloading diet. Most commercial gutloads sold in pet stores are not that great. There are several keepers here who use Repashy products and Cricket Crack. I made my own using Sandrachameleon's recipe for guidance.

 

[TwisteD]

I have some tragic news... unfortunately he didn't make it. There's about an hour left for his appointment, I come in to check on him and he was already slouched over. It broke my heart, j don't even know what to do, seeing him like that killed me.

 

[TwisteD]

He was such a gentle creature...RIP lil guy..

 

[Lathis]

Poor little guy

 

[Lovereps]

It is heartbreaking to lose a beloved pet.
So sad to hear he didn't make it.