Jackson chameleon hurt leg

[Vince]

I agree with Dave. Looking at the pictures it looks like his legs are swollen and his eyes seem puffy to me. He does look like he has the beginnings of renal failure and some of the symptoms to go with it here is a link about kidney disease in reptiles. Either way I would get him to the vet ASAP before he gets sicker. I seriously don't think he needs to go on a diet if he hasn't been eating. Have you tried giving him the pedialyte??? He needs fluids to flush him out. Here's a great article http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=17+1796&aid=3317

Thanks for the information. His legs have always been as thick as they are in these pics. It is that one ankle that is swollen... I will post some older pics so you can see he has always been big.

As for the renal failure, why would he be 100% fine, and a couple hours later he cant move just one ankle. I don't want to say you guys are wrong but i would think there would be more signs of this. Such as wanting do drink more before the injury, lethargic, ect. This was instant. I keep a close eye on him and he was normal bright green and eating fly's when i left. I came home and he was in the top corner of the cage not moving and there was puke near him.

Please keep brain storming with me. I don't want to sound like a no it all but it just don't make since to me that he would get that ill that quick with no sign. Like i said he was bright green active and eating fly's the day this happened. I was only gone for a hour or two at the most.

He will be going to the vet though ASAP

Also, i went and got the pedialyte. He has drank from two mistings with the pedialyte. Today he has been drinking slightly more than normal but seems to be getting back to not taking water every time it is offered. Unlike after the vomiting he wouldn't quit drinking.

Like i said i am not trying to disagree and say what i want to hear, or be a know it all, just trying to make sense of all this.

 

[Dave Weldon]

Howdy Vince,

Here's more of what I would expect him to look like (#269): https://www.chameleonforums.com/post-your-chameleons-23362/index7.html#post317483

His head area and especially the his legs just look like they are swollen. It may not be obesity and if it isn't th
en I wonder if he is retaining more water in his body than is normal? I'd like to here from other Jackson's keepers as to what they think might be going on, if anythng .

There's still the issue of the ankle. I'll defer back to my previous post regarding sprains and breaks...

Hi Dave, Thanks for the information. The more i look at the injured leg the more i think it looks like the paw / ankle is swollen. If i were to mimic the leg movement what am i feeling for?

If it was broken, you can sometimes feel the lack of "connectivity" or sometimes softness of the fractured area. With it possibly being in the wrist, you may be better-off waiting for the vet .

 

[Vince]

Here are some older pics. I wanted to show how big he is as well as how thick his legs are and always have been. These pictures are all several months old.

 

[Vince]

Is it possible the ankle is dislocated? He acts fine other than that ankle. I have watched him stand several times today on the three legs he is using but will not put any preasure on the bad one.

 

[Vince]

Howdy Vince,

Here's more of what I would expect him to look like (#269): https://www.chameleonforums.com/post-your-chameleons-23362/index7.html#post317483

His head area and especially the his legs just look like they are swollen. It may not be obesity and if it isn't th
en I wonder if he is retaining more water in his body than is normal? I'd like to here from other Jackson's keepers as to what they think might be going on, if anythng .

There's still the issue of the ankle. I'll defer back to my previous post regarding sprains and breaks...

If it was broken, you can sometimes feel the lack of "connectivity" or sometimes softness of the fractured area. With it possibly being in the wrist, you may be better-off waiting for the vet .

Thanks Dave, i have always thought that he was a bit bigger than all the other ones i have ever seen. I have posted his age and weight before and nobody thought it was to high. I also have discussed it with my vet and she to told me not to feed any less.

I do agree with you though, clearly he is a lot bigger than the chams in these pics you show. And if he did fall and catch him self, it could explain the injury. Due to his weight.

 

[Vince]

Status Update

Well today my chameleon has been resting his hurt leg on the branches instead of just letting it hang. He has also moved a little today compared to the last couple days. While moving he is using his hurt leg to help balance. This is an improvement since yesterday and the day before.

Yesterday i misted twice with pedialyt (1 /2 water, 1 / 2 pedialyte) and once today. He has not dropped a urate yet but he does look much more hydrated. Also, shortly after he had drank some of the water with pedialyte he started to show better colors. I am assuming that the pedialyte really helped make him feel better. (hydrated him)

I still am planning on taking him in tomorrow... i would love to take him in today but i cant get the person i want on an emergency basis. My biggest fear is if he were to get an bone infection.

I wanted to bring up these links that Jaxygirl was kind enough to share with me, regarding the shefflera tree.
http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/poison...chefflera.html
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/c...on/Schefsp.htm http://www.plantsciences.ucdavis.edu...nt/Tox-COM.htm

Clearly this plant is poisonous to domestic animals. I am just wondering how it got its name on the "safe for chameleon plants"? Is it safe, and only effects animals like dogs and cats? Or could this be the reason my chameleon vomited, and injured his leg? I would like to hear what some other people have to say about this... It makes since to me that this could be the cause. I say this because he was shooting his tongue all over that cage for fly's. And i have been having to trim his shefflera tree due to its size. Therefore, there would be sap exposed.

Please tell me your opinions and thoughts on this.

 

[xanthoman]

sprained ankle ?????

i dont mean to be negative, but i have to agree with DW (as usual) and jaxy girl, i keep jax exclusively, and i have to say there is a definite difference between being big , big boned, even obese, and being edemic. just my opinion , but to me, the last set of pictures clearly indicates something beyond injury, something systemic, such as some form of sepsis (bacterial infection of the blood) or possibly organ failure, although sepsis can sometimes be triggered by injury (which would usually involve some sort of cut or wound), my personal opinion would be that it is more likely attributed to some sort of systemic issue such as blood chemistry or organ malfunction. i think at this point it is reasonable to assume that a quick fix or waiting it out, is not an option. i know its not what you want to hear, but if you truly value your chams health, i would seek out an EXPERIENCED CHAM VET asap (even if he is improving), and request a complete blood workup./ although there could be other causes, such an issue would more likely than not, be caused by some sort of long term supplementation issue (my hunch would be some degree of long term over supplementation) sometimes such a situation could take years to manifest itself. just to be on the safe side, i would recomend discontinuing any current supplementation (beyond gutload and calcium no D3) until you are able to submit him for examination by an experienced cham vet. it wouldnt hurt to submit your supplemtation routine for evaluation by other cf members / if he does not chime in , you may also consider pm-ing cf member MWHEELOCK dvm and see if you can solicit a response. / although i suppose its possible that a overly dehydrated cham could have ingested some sap of a schlefferra (which reportedly has some cham unfriendly qualities), it is on most safe plant lists and i have never seen or heard of this happening. you wanted opinions and like it or not, that is mine (and it is just an opinion, and not meant to take the place of veterinary advice)

 

[Vince]

i dont mean to be negative, but i have to agree with DW (as usual) and jaxy girl, i keep jax exclusively, and i have to say there is a definite difference between being big , big boned, even obese, and being edemic. just my opinion , but to me, the last set of pictures clearly indicates something beyond injury, something systemic, such as some form of sepsis (bacterial infection of the blood) or possibly organ failure, although sepsis can sometimes be triggered by injury (which would usually involve some sort of cut or wound), my personal opinion would be that it is more likely attributed to some sort of systemic issue such as blood chemistry or organ malfunction. i think at this point it is reasonable to assume that a quick fix or waiting it out, is not an option. i know its not what you want to hear, but if you truly value your chams health, i would seek out an EXPERIENCED CHAM VET asap (even if he is improving), and request a complete blood workup./ although there could be other causes, such an issue would more likely than not, be caused by some sort of long term supplementation issue (my hunch would be some degree of long term over supplementation) sometimes such a situation could take years to manifest itself. just to be on the safe side, i would recomend discontinuing any current supplementation (beyond gutload and calcium no D3) until you are able to submit him for examination by an experienced cham vet. it wouldnt hurt to submit your supplemtation routine for evaluation by other cf members / if he does not chime in , you may also consider pm-ing cf member MWHEELOCK dvm and see if you can solicit a response. / although i suppose its possible that a overly dehydrated cham could have ingested some sap of a schlefferra (which reportedly has some cham unfriendly qualities), it is on most safe plant lists and i have never seen or heard of this happening. you wanted opinions and like it or not, that is mine (and it is just an opinion, and not meant to take the place of veterinary advice)

You guys are all right im afraid. He is clearly going down in health. He went to sleep early yesterday and did not drink this morning. This is really depressing for... i don't know what to do... the person that i can see up here does not have the equipment to do blood work on such a small animal, is what she said last time when i asked. And i do not have the funds to drive 7+ hours to Detroit MI area where i can find a specialist. This really stinks. I have always known something was up with his chubbiness but nobody seemed to think it was a problem when i was concerned before, now it is too late i am afraid.

I am so attached to this chameleon, this is not settling well for me...
All i have ever wanted was the best for him... and when i see him like this it is not easy.

Well i am going to get him in today to the vet i can see. I don't know if it will be for the better or worse. At this point he needs blood work done. Not an ex ray and medications... which i am sure is the only thing this vet will be able to do.

 

[Dave Weldon]

...the person that i can see up here does not have the equipment to do blood work on such a small animal, is what she said last time when i asked...

Howdy Vince,

Usually all that is required of the Vet is to know where to stick the needle in the tail, near the base, where there is a pretty big vein/artery. Most Vets send blood samples out to a lab when they need a full analysis. The testing may show if there is an infection and may also help with determining if certain organs are involved.

I can understand why you wouldn't do the 7+ hour trip. As Xanthoman said, cut back the supplements and see what happens. If your local vet won't do the blood draw then about the only thing that I can think of that a vet might be able to fix on a long term basis right now would be an infection. Otherwise, he's either going to get better with a change in the supplement level or he isn't. Hang-in there .

 

[Vince]

Howdy Vince,

Usually all that is required of the Vet is to know where to stick the needle in the tail, near the base, where there is a pretty big vein/artery. Most Vets send blood samples out to a lab when they need a full analysis. The testing may show if there is an infection and may also help with determining if certain organs are involved.

I can understand why you wouldn't do the 7+ hour trip. As Xanthoman said, cut back the supplements and see what happens. If your local vet won't do the blood draw then about the only thing that I can think of that a vet might be able to fix on a long term basis right now would be an infection. Otherwise, he's either going to get better with a change in the supplement level or he isn't. Hang-in there .

Thanks a lot Dave. It is extremely nice to have you guys to talk to. And thank you for understanding my situation. I would love to drive him to Detroit but i would have to get a room and spend the night on top of all the gas cost. I just feel sooo bad because i want to take him to someone else, but cant.

 

[Vince]

Well i cant get him to eat or drink. He has gone 3 days with no food and so far just this morning without water. His eyes are looking like they are sunken in slightly. How can i get him to drink? Can the vet rehydrate him with an I.V.?

My appointment is in an hour... wish him luck

 

[Texas Panther Man]

You can try using a syringe and filling it with pedialyte and gently opening his mouth and try squirting a little in there. Be careful and only give him a drop or two and let him swallow before giving any more.

 

[Vince]

Well i took him to the vet. He for sure has a fractured / broken leg. She put him on Baytril and wants me to orally give it to him every day for three days then take him off for three days then back on for three days. The dose for every time i do this is .03 mL (cc)
Also, she put him on Saline solution. She wants me to inject 2 mL (cc) every other day.

We did not do a blood test. The reason that we didn't is because she would have to draw .5 mL of blood. And he only weighs 120 grams. She did the math to see the amount of blood he should have and taking .5 mL of it would be to much she was afraid. She would have to take this much blood because that is what the lab she goes through said they would need to do the tests. (she called while i was there) She did say that for a hefty price we could try to send it to a lab in Florida where they would be able to do it with less blood. But she has never done this before.
On top of all that i thought that it would maybe be better to get him rehydrated before we take blood.
She also said that if its the liver the solution would give him swelling around his neck. (Edema) And if its his kidneys it would do good because the kidneys would be getting flushed out.

Please let me know your opinions on her choices and my decisions on not getting blood tests done.

One last thing, how can i go about making his cage so he cant fall? If i lower the branches he is too far from the lights. Would it be a good idea to put him in a smaller cage? My only option here would be to put him in my medium exo terra. He still has a really strong grip but with three good legs i worry about him falling and getting worse.

Thanks

 

[Elizadolots]

Consider making it safer for him if he does fall. Make sure there are no sticks on the ground and that it's covered with something relatively soft (fake plant leaves detached from the stems....that has the advantage of being easy to clean, this might be a time that moss is a good idea, or even wadded up paper towels. Anything to cushion the fall). Provide lots of "grab hold" opportunities. My stunt climber is often able to grab a vine and stop himself from hitting the ground. Consider stringing safety nets across any areas so open that he can free fall with no chance of saving himself.

I have a "water catch" dish in his cage and I crocheted a "net" that fits over the top....the water can fall in but if he manages to land there, he's safe. You might be able to use a hair net, but as your's is a bit on the beefy side, I'd want to test how much weight it could withstand and still stay on the bowl.

Good luck. I hope he gets better soon.

 

[xanthoman]

cushioning his floor is a good idea, i like to cut a towel to fit the cage floor, cut a couple of pieces, so when one gets dirty you can just swap it out , this will also raise the humidity, for the time being i would try to keep the humidity higher than normal, try to keep at least some wet foliage in his cage at all times. and i would also keep a dripper going, a good tool for hydrating a non co-operative cham is a dental syringe, https://www.chameleonforums.com/rubbing-his-eye-35397/#post326741 there are better tools but you are more likely to be able to get a dental syringe from a local vet phrmacy or dentist. a better tool is suggested by cf member dave weldon (of course) but it may be harder to obtain https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-best-force-feed-32372/index2.html but maybe you could get one from your vet. ideally you would want him to open his mouth voluntarily , but that may not be likely, sometimes you can p-o them enough to gape. when force feeding or hydrating you need to have your instrument of choice in back of the tounge,there is an air hole directly in front and below his tongue ( his treachea), if you force liquid down this hole he could easily drown. i do not know were marquette, mi is but here is a list of reptile and amphibian vets in mi. / Dr Cassandra J. Callaway
Outhpointe Veterinary Hospital
10581 Allen Rd
Allen Park, MI 48101

Thomas W. deMaar
Director of Animal Health and Research
Binder Park Zoo
7400 Division Dr
Battle Creek, MI 49014

Dr. K. Vrabel
Canton Center Animal Hospital
5900 Canton Center Rd.
Canton, MI 48187

Dr Kenneth M. Harr
Canton Center Animal Hospital
5900 N Canton Center Rd
Canton, MI 48187-2667

Dr Kurt A. Henkel
Michigan State University
Charlevoix Veterinary Hostpital PC
05560 US 31 S
Charlevoix, MI 49720

Dr David B. Brooks
3600 Westrick Rd
China, MI 48054-1715

Dr Howard J. Schwartz
Clarkston Vet Clinic
6687 Dixie Hwy
Clarkston, MI 48346-2918

Dr Thomas M. Bankstahl
39321 Garfield
Clinton Twp, MI 48038

Holly Pope DVM
Parkway Small Animal/Exotic Clinic
39321 Garfield
Clinton Twp, MI 48038

Byron T. Hagewood DVM
24506 Gratiot Ave
Eastpointe, MI 48021

John E Drobish
13310 Oakcrest Ave
Gowen, MI 49326

Dr. Marj L. Field
VCA Allen Park Animal Hospital
PO Box 446
Grosse Ile, MI 48138

Jerrod T Notebaert DVM
2065 Hampton Rd
Grosse Pointe Woods, MI 48236

Dr Andrea Maceri
20652 Woodcrest St
Harper Woods, MI 48225-2007

Dr Jim Bader
185 Panther Dr
Holland, MI 49424

Dr David B. Durham
3012 Shaffer Ave SE
Kentwood, MI 49512-1710

Karen L Niemiec
Roose Animal Hospital
424 N Main
Plymouth, MI 48170

Cara Seely
3671 Normandy Ct
Rochester, MI 48306

Dr. Ann Duncan
Detroit Zoo
P.O. Box 39
Royal Oak, MI 48068-0039

Dr. Ann Cavender
9629 W.Six Mile
P.O.Box 75280
Salem, MI 48175

Lisa Walters DVM
Southgate Animal Hospital
14420 Eureka
Southgate, MI 48195

Dr Byron Lee
The Animal Hospital
25232 US 12 West
Sturgis, MI 49091

Dr Chris Tabaka
27120 Bunert Rd
Warren, MI 48088

Amy P. Lin, DVM
Lin Animal Hospital, PC
Wilson Acres Animal Hospital
8645 Middlebelt Rd
Westland, MI 48185

Dr Scott D. Fitzgerald
56 Newman Rd
Williamston, MI 48895

Dr Wayne Beasley
Cedar Crk Vet & Exotic Bird Cl
2295 N Williamston Rd
Williamston, MI 48895-9748

Marilyn Eggers
1181 Evelyn
Ypsilanti, MI 48198
maybe one of these guys is closer to you , non specialized vets frequently arent all that helpfull when it comes to chams (not that they are not good vets , but its just not their specialty . one thing that can work wonders with any sick cham is natural sunlight , if you have any sun were yoiu are and temps are above 65* or even if not and you could use lamp outside for heat it (natural sun) would probably be the best thing you could do for him. it might even be good to discontinue his calcium and all supplementation at this point as well as discontinuing any added vitamins to his feeder gutload. i think at this point the best thing you can do is get him hydrated, get his system rinsed out and make him comfortable and get him natural sun if at all possible jmo good luck

 

[Vince]

Xanthoman, Thank you so much for your time and information. I will look into these vets.
I have been so stressed about this... it really hurts to see something you love and care for so much do so bad, and not have any clue what the heck happened. On top of that not having a reputable vet around...

 

[SpinyFranky]

https://www.chameleonforums.com/

Speaking of cushioning the fall, have you considered an actual cushion? Im only suggesting it because you confirmed it was indeed a fracture. I just think extra caution should be taken to prevent worsening.

Perhaps a cushion wrapped in a trash bag would be ideal? that way it will not get damp with moisture, water will slide down the trash bag. And in case the cham fell he would land on a cushion... can't get much softer than that.

 

[Vince]

Speaking of cushioning the fall, have you considered an actual cushion? Im only suggesting it because you confirmed it was indeed a fracture. I just think extra caution should be taken to prevent worsening.

Perhaps a cushion wrapped in a trash bag would be ideal? that way it will not get damp with moisture, water will slide down the trash bag. And in case the cham fell he would land on a cushion... can't get much softer than that.

Great idea! since he has been staying in one spot lately i have been sticking a couple pillows under him. However i have not thought of wrapping them in garbage bags. I have been taking them out for mistings. Causing unneeded stress... They also don't stay 100% dry and i was concerned about that getting stagnant in his cage. Thanks you for the great idea

 

[Elizadolots]

Someone had a series of pictures of the things he'd done to accommodate his aging chameleon. The only thing I remembered from the posts was that the chameleon was entering his "life as a dog"...oddly, the search function couldn't handle that..it tossed out everything but "life"...which, of course, left loads

Anyway, if any of the other posters remember that thread, then I think that information would be very helpful for Vince in creating a safe environment for his chameleon.

 

[Vince]

Well i am afraid that what i was the most worried about is happening to my chameleon. The vet said if his liver was failing that he would get edema like affects around his neck after injecting the saline solution. He has only received one injection so far. He got it yesterday at the vets office. Today i can notice a little lump on his chest area. (Gular Edema)

She said that there really isn't anything that we can do for the liver except to put him down. I feel so bad for him... I absolutley hate watching him suffer like this. It brings tears to my eyes I am going to try one more injection and make 100% sure this is whats happening before i give up on him. I just don't want it to get to the point where he if falling and hurting himself worse. If he is going to pass away i would just assume to not let him suffer.

Still i don't understand what the heck triggered this. He was so active and appeared to be healthy. He hurt his leg and now his organs are failing? Could it be the trauma that triggered the rest of the problems? Maybe his liver has been failing for a while now. But with the trauma it quit completely with the added stress? He hasn't dropped a urate since the accident which is going on five days now. Could this be another sine of liver failure?