Ivy's Dilemma

[KingNefarious]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Chamaeleo calyptratus, Female, and have had her for 6 months.
Handling - Once or Twice a day for about 10 to 15 minutes
Feeding - Feeding large crickets and mealworms. Morning, five crickets and three mealworms. Rarely do we feed her at night. We gut load them with potatoes.
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your We use Sticky Tongue Farms MINER-ALL every other day.
Watering - Ice cube on cage to drip and, yes, we see her drink.
Fecal Description - Poops everyday. One half dark, one half sludgy white and yellow depending on what she eats. Has not been tested for parasites but recently took to Vet who said she's healthy.
History - She's been awesome!
Cage Info:
Cage Type - Combo of both screen and glass, half and half. 24 x 24 x 42. Custom made
Lighting - Lighting all day. Zoo-med.
Temperature - Temperature range is approximately 85-90 in basking spot, no lower than 80 throughout except near bottom where it drops to 75.
Humidity - Humidity is about 40.
Plants - Not using live plants.
Placement - Cage is located in the living room. Near entrance to house, but not a lot of traffic. Only two people in and out.
Location - California. Central Coast.


I'm not sure if there is anything to be worried about, but just having taken her to the vet we were sure she was fine. She acts normally but just has developed a little discoloration along the right-side of her lip. Anyone had this problem? Is it temporary? Picture of chameleon problem and cage.

 

[chameleoman]

you need alot more leafs in the cage
you need to mist 2-3 times a day
orange yellow urate means dehydration
alot of people like to use rep-cal d3 twice a month multi vitamins 2 a month and regular calcium without d3 just about every other feeding
but you definatley need more leafs for her to hide because if they cant hide they easily get stressed you should have a repti sun 5.0 linear tube for the uvb and i use a house flood light 60 w i think its 60 w

 

[camimom]

Hello.
there are several things you need to correct in your husbandry.
if you are sure you have a female, you need a laying bin for her. So she can lay her eggs, which they can do without being bred.
next, you need alot more foliage in there to keep her comfortable.
you are not gutloading your feeders properly.
you need to use, potatoes, oranges, carrots, apples, mustard greens, dandilion leaves, bee pollen, etc. use the searh on here and look up gutload, you will find many peoples recipes for good proper gutloa.d remember, what your feeders eat, your cham eats.
a chams feces should be two parts, the dark poop, and the whtie urate (pee). if it is ever yellow or orange, your cham is dehydrated. You need to mist several times a day, soaking the cage. I would also suggest geting a dripper, (not just an ice cube) you can get a dripper at petco or petsmart.

for yur lights, zoomed is not a good brand. it doesnt last long. you need two bubls, one for basking, and one for uvb. UVB is REQUIRED FOR ALL CHAMS.
no uvb light, will make your cham develop MBD.
for basking bulbs, a regular house bulb, 50-80 watt is fine.
for uvb, reptio glo or repti sun is recommended. 5.0

your humidity should be higher. you can achieve this by putting live plants in there.
ficus, pothos, scheflera, hibiscus are good ones and relatively easy to keep a live.

you need to supplement better. I dont know the schedule for your type of cham, but for veileds, i use a plain calcium without d3 every feeding, calcium with d3 2x a month, and a multivitamin 2x a month.
I would suggest looking into the supplementing schedule for your type of cham.

as for the lip, it could be bug guts from a feeder, it could be a bruise, it could be the beginnings of a mouth infection, or she could simply be rubbing her face on the mesh of her cage. keep an eye on it and see if ti changes.

ok so,m take everytihng ive said, and apply it to your cham.

also, your temps are way to high for a female. pls drop the temps down to around 80-85. lower temps will help to reduce the size of her egg laying. and go read jannb blog on laying bins. with a female, you need to know this, especially since female veileds can lay eggs areond 6 months old.

 

[krknieriem]

Hello.
there are several things you need to correct in your husbandry.
if you are sure you have a female, you need a laying bin for her. So she can lay her eggs, which they can do without being bred.
next, you need alot more foliage in there to keep her comfortable.
you are not gutloading your feeders properly.
you need to use, potatoes, oranges, carrots, apples, mustard greens, dandilion leaves, bee pollen, etc. use the searh on here and look up gutload, you will find many peoples recipes for good proper gutloa.d remember, what your feeders eat, your cham eats.
a chams feces should be two parts, the dark poop, and the whtie urate (pee). if it is ever yellow or orange, your cham is dehydrated. You need to mist several times a day, soaking the cage. I would also suggest geting a dripper, (not just an ice cube) you can get a dripper at petco or petsmart.

for yur lights, zoomed is not a good brand. it doesnt last long. you need two bubls, one for basking, and one for uvb. UVB is REQUIRED FOR ALL CHAMS.
no uvb light, will make your cham develop MBD.
for basking bulbs, a regular house bulb, 50-80 watt is fine.
for uvb, reptio glo or repti sun is recommended. 5.0

your humidity should be higher. you can achieve this by putting live plants in there.
ficus, pothos, scheflera, hibiscus are good ones and relatively easy to keep a live.

you need to supplement better. I dont know the schedule for your type of cham, but for veileds, i use a plain calcium without d3 every feeding, calcium with d3 2x a month, and a multivitamin 2x a month.
I would suggest looking into the supplementing schedule for your type of cham.

as for the lip, it could be bug guts from a feeder, it could be a bruise, it could be the beginnings of a mouth infection, or she could simply be rubbing her face on the mesh of her cage. keep an eye on it and see if ti changes.

lol, actually Camimom you both have the same type of chameleon she just posted the scientific name for Veiled

 

[camimom]

lol, actually Camimom you both have the same type of chameleon she just posted the scientific name for Veiled

I thought so. But wasnt sure. never actually seen the scientific name for them. Doy. haha, smack on forhead

 

[carol5208]

Camimom, Zoomed MAKES Reptisun!!! It depends on which Zoomed light she has.

 

[camimom]

Camimom, Zoomed MAKES Reptisun!!! It depends on which Zoomed light she has.

really? didnt know that. I bought a zoomed uvb light, and it crapped out on me within a month. replaced it with a reptisun, and havent had any problems, that was 5 months ago.

 

[krknieriem]

really? didnt know that. I bought a zoomed uvb light, and it crapped out on me within a month. replaced it with a reptisun, and havent had any problems, that was 5 months ago.

You may want to replace that tube next month, remember it is recomended to do so every 6 months

 

[camimom]

You may want to replace that tube next month, remember it is recomended to do so every 6 months

Oh its going ot be replaced. in fact, im replacing everything, plants, cage, lights. everything.
Kink, my male veiled, is being upgraded into his big boy adult cage. so that my newest member, a male how from showjet, can take over Kinks baby cage in a few weeks when he arrives.

 

[carol5208]

Here you go!!!
http://www.zoomed.com/db/products/S...hting&Heading=Terrarium&Search.x=0&Search.y=0
you may have just gotten a dud. Every Reptisun I have ever bought was made by Zoomed!

 

[camimom]

Here you go!!!
http://www.zoomed.com/db/products/S...hting&Heading=Terrarium&Search.x=0&Search.y=0
you may have just gotten a dud. Every Reptisun I have ever bought was made by Zoomed!

thanks. Lucky me. I always get duds. I got a dud hood that blew every basking bulb i placed in it at the slightest bump to the hood.
id come home frequently to find my basking bulb off, cuz a at bumped the cord, whcih then blew the bulb. i swaer, i went thru 10 house bulbs until i could get the hood replaced.

 

[KingNefarious]

Concerns

Alright, so we have a lot of feedback which I appreciate but some of your concerns we've had analyzed by chameleon enthusiasts and vetinarians.

We have a Reptisun and it bears no problems but it is reaching it's end. We got about two months. We already had one that worked, used it, and bought a new one since then (bout 3 months ago).

As for humidity, that was always a concern for us but through vetinarians and chameleon enthusiasts they both said that's a mild factor. While it's good to have humidity it's not strongly necessary. There definately should be some but they mentioned Veiled Chameleons go through droughts and dry seasons and are well equipped, naturally, to survive in low humidity.

We know for a FACT she's a female because we have a male, and the breeder we bought it from was extremely knowledgeable to discern it. On top of that we already have a bin ready for her to lay eggs in, we're just waiting for her to start showing signs.

As for gutloading, yes, I'm glad you brought up potatoes not being enough, we've tried multiple things but we will definately add more variety. Any recommendations on vitamins? The MINER-ALL mentioned has Calcium, Vitamin D3, Manganese, Zinc, Copper, Iodine, CObalt, Magnesium, and Selenium plus more. Even on the label it mentions it has over 50 vital minerals ensuring optimum health and bone strength, and was recommended by the breeder himself. But I agree...we should probably get a multi-vitamin. We figured the MINER-ALL was sufficient for her needs. It worked well with the male. She is our second and haven't had any problems with her until now, if it is a problem at all.

Heating lamp is 100 W Zilla...which we hate because they break so easily so we're going to upgrade to ceramic most likely. We've have problem with red light so we always buy black.

One problem, that you said will help is adding a hibiscus but for those who have live plants how do you keep the plant from being infected? Does the feces they lay kill the plant? We did one hibiscus and had to throw it out when we found out there was bugs in it. Maybe it's just where we got it. We're afraid to try it again. So for now, it's been fake stuff. What makes it difficult, too, is our area isn't a big city so finding particular live plants is difficult. We make an effort, but aren't rich.

As for the foliage, I agree. We're tight on funds so we haven't been able to get more foliage. Our BIG cage, being 5'x3'x5' has plenty of foliage but we're redesigning it before we put her in there. The plants in there won't fit in the cage she is currently in.

But no one has had this problem on the lip? That can say directly what it might be?

 

[carol5208]

Reptisun 5.0 tube is the most widely used bulb by forum members. no eyes issues or problems with that bulb. As you know Males have spurs on the back feet and females don't. So you can figure that out very easily. You need a calcium WITHOUT d3. The one you are using has d3 and you don't need to over supplement with that. The plain calcium should be used at every feeding. No lights of ANY color. Black, red, etc. Ordinary white housebulb...its that simple and inexpensive. 60 watt should do. I am assuming when you say heating lamp you mean basking? You do not need any type of other heat in the cage unless your temps plan on dipping into the 50's or something. Feces does not kill the hibiscus or any other plant. Hibiscus are extremely hard to keep indoors as they flower. Flowering plants need the sun. you are better off with a ficus or Sheffelera.

 

[jessica]

Does it have a yellowish color? I have a panther that had something similar, it didn't bother him in any way and it went away after a couple sheds.

I added some information for you on other stuff

This is a great blog on good temps for female veilds and why.

http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/

Here is a blog by Sandra Chameleon about what foods are good gutloads

https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/75-feeder-nutrition-gutloading.html

As for suppliments I use Repashy Calcium Plus ICB. It is an all in one suppliment

https://www.chameleonforums.com/calcium-plus-icb-65145/

My old sheduale

Rep Calcium with D3 2 times a month
Miner-All O 1 time a week
Herptivite 2 times a month
Rep Cal phosphorus free Calcium with out D3 every feeding

 

[Elizadolots]

Jessica's post is loaded with great links that you absolutely need to read. From what I see, you may be keeping things a bit warm for a female unless you intend to mate her.

I really recommend a golden pothos plant. They thrive on water and chameleon poop. You will need good drainage when you have live plants in the enclosure, but the humidity bounce makes that well worth doing.

 

[kinyonga]

Regarding the egglaying bin...I always recommend that once a female is sexually mature an opaque container at least 12" deep x 12" x 8" filled with washed playsand be placed in her cage and left there so one doesn't miss the often subtle indications that the female needs to lay eggs. Once she starts digging in this container she can be moved to a larger one if you want to.

Here's some information I hope will help you with things like supplements, gutloading, etc....
Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.

Since many of the feeder insects we use in captivity have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects just before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. (I use Rep-cal phosphorus-free calcium).

If you also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it. (I use Rep-cal phos.-free calcium/D3).

Dusting twice a month as well with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while. (I use herptivite which has beta carotene.)

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.
Please note that various supplements have various amounts of D3 and vitamin A and so some can be given more often than others. The idea still is not to overdo the fat soluble vitamins like D3 and prEformed vitamin A.

Here are some good sites for you to read too...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200406080...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
If you can't access the sites above that have the word "archive" in you can do it through the WayBackMachine.

 

[Olimpia]

Are you using colored bulbs for her heat spot? I would tell you to just use a normal household bulb for that. Chameleons are very color oriented and they like the white light to be able to see things clearly. Just grab any normal 60 or so watt incandescent bulb and use that instead. It's cheaper and the light is good for them.