Is my girl sick? I am starting to worry

shrum

Established Member
Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Ambilobe 8 months old in my care for 2 months
Handling - Rarely and lately almost never
Feeding - every day half hour after light goes on i feed and usual diet was dusted crickets about 10 to 12 and a few silkworms or supers or dubias...i mix it up
Supplements - Repashy cal plus everyday and zoomed cal plus d3 2 times a month
Watering - Mistking four times a day for 5 mins each time, i have seen her drink many times but not lately because i have been covering her.
Fecal Description - never been tested and has always looked normal but now i have only seen her poop once in forever it seems

Cage Info:
Cage Type - 2x2x4 screen cage with white cardboard on the sides and shower curtain on the back
Lighting - light your reptiles quad fixture with arcadia uvb and 6500K plant lights
Temperature - basking temps are 85 to 90 and ambient temp is about 72, The lowest night temp is 65 and i use a temp gauge as well as a temp gun.
Humidity - 60% to 90 after watering but i would say 80 on avg
Plants - i have one hanging pothos and one umbrella plant and one moneytree and one other i forget the name but small
Placement - i have her in a herp room i have with no traffic during the weekdays and on weekends it just me going in and out.
Location - NJ

Current Problem - For the last month or just over my female stopped eating any type of feeder i offer except silks. Even with the silks she will only eat like 5 or 6 small ones if i bunch them up and she hits them all at once but after that she is done. she did seem pretty round and restless so i added a laying bin inside the cage and had it covered to see if maybe it is eggs that is bothering her but she has not used the bin at all and it has been weeks. i now notice she seems to walk different and her legs are not the same as any of my other chams and maybe a sign of something else. I know a vet appointment is called for but i need to make calls around first because my last vet appointment which was recommended for chams was not to my liking. I am going to post some pics so everyone can get an idead of what i am talking about.
 

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shrum

Established Member
Thank you for the info and it really seems to be the case as I read on but the one thing I do not get is what I did wrong. The post states that it is from the care of the animal and the diet but I dust everyday and my supplements are brand new and so are my bulbs. I am confused but regardless will call a vet in the morning.
 

JaxyGirl

Avid Member
Thank you for the info and it really seems to be the case as I read on but the one thing I do not get is what I did wrong. The post states that it is from the care of the animal and the diet but I dust everyday and my supplements are brand new and so are my bulbs. I am confused but regardless will call a vet in the morning.
It might not even be your fault. You said she's 8 mos old and you've only had her for 2 mos. she might have had the beginnings of MBD when you got her. The disease happens slowly. Who actually knows what her diet and husbandry was like before you got her?
 

zlew

Member
Is it possible that the eggs have been taking up all her calcium and if they've been in her for too long it's begun to adversely affect her? (not a diagnosis, just a question for the pursuit of knowledge)
 

Lovereps

Avid Member
Important supplement issue

I don't know how long you have been supplementing her daily with Repashy calcium plus but, it is a very bad idea to use it daily for a chameleon.
The reason is that it's a multivitamin,which should be used 2x a month for a Panther, rather than the daily plain calcium powder that she should be receiving.
Not only does it contain plenty of vitamin D but it contains a generous dose of vitamin A also.
Your girl is getting far too many vitamins, which can cause health problems.
Excessive vitamin A can cause poor calcium absorption, as well as liver troubles.
See this article for confirmation, as it states that "it has been noted that excess supplementation with vitamin A may interfere with vitamin D absorption, resulting in a clinical condition similar to NMBD " http://jn.nutrition.org/content/140/11/1923.full

A plain calcium, such as Zoomed without D3 which contains no added vitamins or minerals would be fine for daily use.

I would immediately stop the Repashy and the Calcium with D3 for the month to give her internal organs a chance to recover.
Since the weather is so nice in NJ right now, you should try to get her some cage time in natural sunlight to help her absorb the calcium that the vet will give her.
Natural sunlight causes animals (and people) to create their own bodily vitamin D---which will only be produced in the right amount that the body requires.
That's why chams kept outdoors don't receive calcium supplements with
vitamin D added.

Large Phoenix worms are wiggly and may tempt her to eat more.
Phoenix worms also have the advantage of containing a good deal of calcium.

You can read a very informative article on what to do about MBD , written by a chamkeeping Vet here https://www.chameleonforums.com/what-metabolic-bone-disease-mbd-looks-like-how-happens-how-fix-95071/

ALSO: The Money Tree plant is toxic, according to a number of online sources, so I would suggest removing it from her enclosure.
 

shrum

Established Member
Thank you all for the replies and will take steps to correct the supplements today and hope to get into vet this morning
 

dimil

Member
I don't know how long you have been supplementing her daily with Repashy calcium plus but, it is a very bad idea to use it daily for a chameleon.
The reason is that it's a multivitamin,which should be used 2x a month for a Panther, rather than the daily plain calcium powder that she should be receiving.
Not only does it contain plenty of vitamin D but it contains a generous dose of vitamin A also.
Your girl is getting far too many vitamins, which can cause health problems.
Excessive vitamin A can cause poor calcium absorption, as well as liver troubles.
See this article for confirmation, as it states that "it has been noted that excess supplementation with vitamin A may interfere with vitamin D absorption, resulting in a clinical condition similar to NMBD " http://jn.nutrition.org/content/140/11/1923.full

A plain calcium, such as Zoomed without D3 which contains no added vitamins or minerals would be fine for daily use.

I would immediately stop the Repashy and the Calcium with D3 for the month to give her internal organs a chance to recover.
Since the weather is so nice in NJ right now, you should try to get her some cage time in natural sunlight to help her absorb the calcium that the vet will give her.
Natural sunlight causes animals (and people) to create their own bodily vitamin D---which will only be produced in the right amount that the body requires.
That's why chams kept outdoors don't receive calcium supplements with
vitamin D added.

Large Phoenix worms are wiggly and may tempt her to eat more.
Phoenix worms also have the advantage of containing a good deal of calcium.

You can read a very informative article on what to do about MBD , written by a chamkeeping Vet here https://www.chameleonforums.com/what-metabolic-bone-disease-mbd-looks-like-how-happens-how-fix-95071/

ALSO: The Money Tree plant is toxic, according to a number of online sources, so I would suggest removing it from her enclosure.
What about the Repashy calcium plus LoD? Is this okay on a daily basis? Tye is almost 3 months old.
 

Lovereps

Avid Member
Even the Calcium Plus LoD is far too much vitamin D and vitamin A if used daily.

Plain calcium without any vitamins is the recommended powder for daily use.
Repashy Calcium plus LoD is actually a multivitamin/mineral supplement.

The LoD is fine for every other week, and maybe even for once a week, unless you have a "montane" cham, such as a Jackson's or a Fishers (Kinyongia), etc (you would then use 1x a month).
Veileds and Panthers are not montane chams.
Chameleons, versus many other lizard species are very sensitive to oversupplementation, meaning that serious health problems can occur which often are not reversible.

The problem is that Repashy Calcium plus LoD is actually a multivitamin/mineral supplement, rather than a calcium supplement.

Compare the amount of Vitamins A and D in the LoD to Reptivite multivitamin.

Repashy Calcium plus LoD :minimum of 80,000 IU vitamin A per lb.

Reptivite: minimum of 99,910 IU vitamin A

Repashy Calcium plus LoD : minimum of 8000 IU vitamin D per lb

Reptivite with D3 : minimum of 10,390 IU vitamin D per lb

Since multivitamins are recommended to be used sparingly (2x a month for Veileds) , you can understand why daily use of the LoD is much too often.

BTW, here is an excellent caresheet on Veiled chams, written by the forum moderators, which includes many important details, such as recommended supplement use https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/
 
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dimil

Member
Even the Calcium Plus LoD is far too much vitamin D and vitamin A if used daily.

Plain calcium without any vitamins is the recommended powder for daily use.
Repashy Calcium plus LoD is actually a multivitamin/mineral supplement.

The LoD is fine for every other week, and maybe even for once a week, unless you have a "montane" cham, such as a Jackson's or a Fishers (Kinyongia), etc (you would then use 1x a month).
Veileds and Panthers are not montane chams.
Chameleons, versus many other lizard species are very sensitive to oversupplementation, meaning that serious health problems can occur which often are not reversible.

The problem is that Repashy Calcium plus LoD is actually a multivitamin/mineral supplement, rather than a calcium supplement.

Compare the amount of Vitamins A and D in the LoD to Reptivite multivitamin.

Repashy Calcium plus LoD :minimum of 80,000 IU vitamin A per lb.

Reptivite: minimum of 99,910 IU vitamin A

Repashy Calcium plus LoD : minimum of 8000 IU vitamin D per lb

Reptivite with D3 : minimum of 10,390 IU vitamin D per lb

Since multivitamins are recommended to be used sparingly (2x a month for Veileds) , you can understand why daily use of the LoD is much too often.

BTW, here is an excellent caresheet on Veiled chams, written by the forum moderators, which includes many important details, such as recommended supplement use https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/
Hi, sorry for the delay in my response, but I do not have a veiled chameleon, I have a panther chameleon. Does that make any type of difference? thank you for your assistance by the way
 

Lovereps

Avid Member
Don't know where I got Veiled from, since you did say she's an Ambilobe and posted pics--sorry for the confusion.

There is no difference in supplementing Panther chams and Veiled chams.
Only "montane" species of chams need fewer D3 and vitamin supplements overall.

Here's the forum's Panther caresheet. which has all of the Panther-specific info you could need (temperature, humidity, supplements, etc.)https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/panther/
--and there is much more good info via the links at the left hand side of the page.

I do hope she has been seen by a vet.

Low blood levels of calcium do cause egg-binding which can be fatal.

A vet will administer calcium via injection and you can then provide the proper amount of liquid calcium orally to help her to continue to recover.

As odd as it seems, excessive amounts of vitamin D supplements actually cause the body to extract calcium from the bones--as detailed here in an article by Dr. Kenneth Lopez http://www.uvma.org/chameleon/vitamind3.htm
 
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