Is caring for a jacksons considerably harder than a veiled

[ragingreefer]

I am nearing crunch time here for deciding what species to go with. I was originally thinking veiled but I have always wanted a Jacksons. I have had my 16x16x30 reptibreeze set up for around two weeks and I have been able to achieve a 81-83 degree basking spot with just my 50 watt basking bulb and 87-89 with the addition of an incandescent. So basically my question is why are the jacksons harder to take care of and If a first time cham owner truly needs to avoid them. I have poison dart frogs, a reef tank (hence the username ragingreefer) and a crested gecko so I am not completely new to exotic animals
Thanks.


Oh and one final thing, I don't like the idea of having one shipped to MN(in our wonderful winters) so if anyone knows of good retail stores in the twin cities that would be greatly appreciated

 

[little leaf]

I am nearing crunch time here for deciding what species to go with. I was originally thinking veiled but I have always wanted a Jacksons. I have had my 16x16x30 reptibreeze set up for around two weeks and I have been able to achieve a 81-83 degree basking spot with just my 50 watt basking bulb and 87-89 with the addition of an incandescent. So basically my question is why are the jacksons harder to take care of and If a first time cham owner truly needs to avoid them. I have poison dart frogs, a reef tank (hence the username ragingreefer) and a crested gecko so I am not completely new to exotic animals
Thanks.


Oh and one final thing, I don't like the idea of having one shipped to MN(in our wonderful winters) so if anyone knows of good retail stores in the twin cities that would be greatly appreciated

here is a care sheet on them - maybe look it over before you decide - https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/jacksons/

they need alot of humidity , cooler temp, but a spot to warm up - also , their dusting is different from most chams, I am not saying someone who has NEVER had a cham can not own a Jax, but I would do much more research first- and the veiled are a bit more "forgiving" on slight husbandry mistakes - maybe start with the Veiled, and then get a Jax later if you are like 99% of us, you will have more than one cham - they are very addicting

 

[Psychobunny]

I dont recommend a Jacksons, or any montane species as a first cham.
They are tricky to keep healthy, more difficult to keep hydrated.

I would start with a veiled, but if you have your heart set on a Jacksons, have the time, patience, and money to care for it properly, then make sure
to buy a male at least 6 months old.
DO NOT buy a baby!!!
Keeping baby montanes alive past 4 months is not a venture for a beginner

Read up and do your homework well before taking the plunge, ask yourself if
you really can handle the care involved

Also, the cage you mentioned is too small for a Jax, and they stress very
if confined.
A minimum would be 18 x 18 x 36'', but bigger would be better.

They also require LOTS of water, so keep cage drainage in mind.

 

[pigglett79]

My first chameleon was a jackson. After researching on these forums I was able to provide him with what he needed. I don't think they are considerably harder, just different. If you follow the information provided on the forum and care sheets here you will be fine. If you can raise dart frogs and reef tanks, you certainly can do fine with a jackson. Just be sure the basking temp is around 82-83 and provide extra humidity, I use a cool mist humidifier that has tubing from it to the cage. And sometimes it's tricky for them to drink, some prefer longer misting like 5 to 10 minutes. And of course they require less supplements. I use plain calcium on all roaches, crickets supers etc (insects with a poor calcium to phosphorus ratio) and multivitamins once a month. I feed a wide variety of insects and they adore blue bottle flies and snails.

They are also prone to temporal gland infections so read up on that and don't feed them food that is too big.

Edit: And set aside an emergency fund for vet bills just in case. When chameleons get sick they hide it well, so sometimes by the time you notice something is wrong it needs vet attention. My Jackson has a cut in his mouth now and we took him to the vet to get it looked at and some meds. That visit was only $83 but we got quotes for if he would need blood work and x rays and that came out to 300-400. Just so you have an idea how much to put away.

 

[Olimpia]

I don't think they are any harder to care for honestly, if you know what they need. I started off with a Jackson's as my first chameleon (I came from gecko ownership) and everyone on the forum told me to avoid them but I didn't listen. And I don't regret it at all, he was a delight.

They need cooler temps - easy, you just have a lower watt basking temperature and make sure your AC or an open window lets him have the cooler ambient temps he needs (although mine loved a good day of hot sunshine outside in Central Florida!)

They need more water - easy, if you have a misting system you just run it more often and/or for longer periods of time. If you're hand misting, you do the same. Some shower curtains or plastic draped over 3/4 sides of the cage will hold in humidity, along with live plants.

Less supplementation - easy, you just don't supplement as often. I actually opted for a strong gutload vs supplements and would skip them altogether (except some plain calcium here and there).

If you read the caresheet here on the forum it gives you a good idea of what's involved. But no, I really didn't find him difficult at all. The only species so far that I've found even remotely more temperamental than your average panther or veiled are Meller's, but everything else I've owned I've found to be no more complicated. Just a little different. But I don't consider Jackson's to be a particularly delicate species, by any means.

 

[fluxlizard]

I think one of the most difficult things about jacksons is that you will have a hard time getting a captive bred really well started individual.

Wild caught chameleons are always a gamble. Always.

You might get a very healthy individual that does great over the long run and acclimates well and thrives.

Or - more likely if you just consider the numbers of jacksons that are sold vs how many keepers you see on the internet participating in forums like this one - you may end up with an animal that fails to survive longer than several months.

Veterinary involvement in deparisitizing is a really really good idea with wild caught individuals- so keep that in mind when considering the initial cost. And then also consider, it is still going to be a gamble even with veterinary involvement.

Captive bred or more often than not captive born jacksons are sometimes available, but if you cannot find an individual at least 5-6 " long you are again taking a pretty big gamble. Baby jacksons are delicate and how well they do will depend not only on your care but the care off the lizard prior to your purchase. By 5-6" they are much more hardy, but by that time they are harder to find available for sale.

 

[shea]

I think one of the most difficult things about jacksons is that you will have a hard time getting a captive bred really well started individual.

Wild caught chameleons are always a gamble. Always.

I always had a difficult time with Jackson's. And maybe it's just my perception, but I always wonder who actually has had success with these guys. And by success, I mean, breeding several generations, or keeping an adult for 2-4 years. I just never hear about someone breeding F2 of jacksons, or someone posting pics of a 4 year old jacksons.

I haven't kept Jackson's in about 20 years, and advances in keeping these guys have certainly been made, but the marketplace seems to be the same year in year out - wild caught adults, and captive born babies. Are there really any captive bred jacksons? A population of captive bred jacksons has never been established like panthers or veileds, or if it has, it's relatively small. I personally, have never kept a jackson alive more than 1 full year.

I'd really like to try again, get a group, put them in my basement where I can keep it cool at night and control temps. Someday.

Shea Peterson

 

[pigglett79]

I always had a difficult time with Jackson's. And maybe it's just my perception, but I always wonder who actually has had success with these guys. And by success, I mean, breeding several generations, or keeping an adult for 2-4 years. I just never hear about someone breeding F2 of jacksons, or someone posting pics of a 4 year old jacksons.

I haven't kept Jackson's in about 20 years, and advances in keeping these guys have certainly been made, but the marketplace seems to be the same year in year out - wild caught adults, and captive born babies. Are there really any captive bred jacksons? A population of captive bred jacksons has never been established like panthers or veileds, or if it has, it's relatively small. I personally, have never kept a jackson alive more than 1 full year.

I'd really like to try again, get a group, put them in my basement where I can keep it cool at night and control temps. Someday.

Shea Peterson

With the amazing resources on this site, I have a happy 2.5 year old jackson. The only issue I have had with him is recently he got a cut in his mouth that we are currently treating. I think we know more now about how to keep them in captivity and there are more herp vets out there that know about treating them. There are many successful Jackson owners on this site and breeders as well.

 

[fluxlizard]

I always had a difficult time with Jackson's. And maybe it's just my perception, but I always wonder who actually has had success with these guys. And by success, I mean, breeding several generations, or keeping an adult for 2-4 years. I just never hear about someone breeding F2 of jacksons, or someone posting pics of a 4 year old jacksons.

I had a friend who took her jacksons into 3 generations without adding new stock on a medium size scale (probably kept around 20 breeders at any given moment)- but strangely that was 20 years ago and she discontinued after getting interested in other herps. LOL

Looking at my post a few days ago- it is kind of a downer. But I really think the biggest problem is lack of captive bred well started offspring for this species. WC is so stinking cheap and readily available ($50 for an adult pair- female usually gravid) that it is really difficult for a serious breeder to get serious about them. And wild caught often seem to do well for several months or even a year or so and then often crash.

The other problem I think is that they really do better with a significant drop in temperature at night. I'm not sure how they get that in Hawaii, but certainly mine always looked better here when they could drop into the 50s at night than at other times of the year... I get the feeling most casual pet owners never let them drop below the low 70s...

 

[pigglett79]

I had a friend who took her jacksons into 3 generations without adding new stock on a medium size scale (probably kept around 20 breeders at any given moment)- but strangely that was 20 years ago and she discontinued after getting interested in other herps. LOL

Looking at my post a few days ago- it is kind of a downer. But I really think the biggest problem is lack of captive bred well started offspring for this species. WC is so stinking cheap and readily available ($50 for an adult pair- female usually gravid) that it is really difficult for a serious breeder to get serious about them. And wild caught often seem to do well for several months or even a year or so and then often crash.

The other problem I think is that they really do better with a significant drop in temperature at night. I'm not sure how they get that in Hawaii, but certainly mine always looked better here when they could drop into the 50s at night than at other times of the year... I get the feeling most casual pet owners never let them drop below the low 70s...

Temperature drops at night is an interesting topic. Like you said, in Hawaii the temperature doesn't drop much at night and the weather doesn't change much throughout the year. I usually drop mine down to the mid 60's at night.

 

[Bush baby]

My first cham almost 20 years ago was a Jacksons, then up until recently i kept Veiled's; now i have a Jackson's again. I don't consider them harder, just different and since less people own them when compared to Veiled's and Panthers you wind up finding less information about them, and how to deal with their issues when compared to other Cham information.

That being said, you have to remember that Jackson's come from a cooler environment than Veiled's do and they LOVE water. I can count on one hand the amount of times i've seen my 2 previously owned Veiled's drink actual water. Because they come from a hot climate they are adapted to getting their water via the insects they eat, plus fruits and veggies. Jackson must have a lot of water. Also their metabolism and growth rate is slower, so if you gave too much vitamins or calcium to a Veiled Cham, due to his faster growth rate and increased metabolism, his body would use it up/discard it; if you do that with a Jackson's, since their metabolism is slower and is not processing things as fast, those extra vitamins, etc sit in his body and wreak havoc, thus why they are more prone to over supplementation.

If you keep these things in mind, you should be fine. Jackson's are my favorite Cham due to their laid back disposition.

Oh, btw a night time temp drop seems to be very beneficial as mentioned. I keep mine in the basement where the temps drop to around the 60's in the summer and low 50's in the winter.

 

[ragingreefer]

Wow thanks for the responses. I just finished my DIY fogger so as of now I am leaning towards jacksons. I have been looking at several different videos and blogs of others so I am prepared. Anyone from the twin cities have experience with the vet that is linked with the U of M herp department. I have heard good things and was looking for some contact info, address etc.

 

[bobcochran]

My first cham was a Jackson female. I raised up from 2 months old, she was a captive bred. I kept her on a branch screwed to the wall in my upstairs bathroom window with a low watt light bulb for basking. I do live on the coast in central Cal. so humidity wasn't a big problem. When she got to breeding age I bought a male from the same breeder and successfully raised 10 babies. I've always thought Jacksons were a great starter cham. Where you live the major problem is probably going to be humidity in the winter. Otherwise they're a great lizard to start with-one of the most friendly and mellow across the board.

 

[Action Jackson]

Gotta love a Jackson's, horns are just too cool.

I have a male Xantholophus and a male j Jacksonii that are 4 years old. I have done well with my Jackson's and at present have 13 I think including all three sub-species. I don't bother breeding Xantholophus although they are really cool because it's hard to find homes for them and recoup the money spent raising them. I mainly work with j merumontanous and will soon have my third litter of babies. I still have a ways to go in learning what is the best method for caring for them. They are prone to get mouth and respitory infections. I agree with what others says about night time temperature drops. My two oldest Jackson's are kept outside almost year round and see temps down into the mid thirties quite often and even my babies see temps in the forties. They all seem to do better with these cool night temps.

 

[boosh96]

Handsome Jack was my first and currently only "full size" chameleon. I'd say Jackson's are probably marginally harder to care for then Veiled chams due to their humidity/hydration needs as well as the extra care you need to take when you give them supplements. However, I'd definitely recommend a Jackson's if you're willing to put in just a little extra work. They're totally worth it, just as any other chameleon is.

 

[ragingreefer]

From what I understand supplementing is pretty much the same but just less often, correct? So maybe twice a week calcium witout d3 and every 5 to 6 weeks calcium with d3 and than a multivitamin every few months.

 

[Kareo]

I am nearing crunch time here for deciding what species to go with. I was originally thinking veiled but I have always wanted a Jacksons. I have had my 16x16x30 reptibreeze set up for around two weeks and I have been able to achieve a 81-83 degree basking spot with just my 50 watt basking bulb and 87-89 with the addition of an incandescent. So basically my question is why are the jacksons harder to take care of and If a first time cham owner truly needs to avoid them. I have poison dart frogs, a reef tank (hence the username ragingreefer) and a crested gecko so I am not completely new to exotic animals
Thanks.


Oh and one final thing, I don't like the idea of having one shipped to MN(in our wonderful winters) so if anyone knows of good retail stores in the twin cities that would be greatly appreciated

Twin Cities Reptiles just off of 280 and University in St. Paul. They have lots of REAL help available and won't oversell you!

 

[Psychobunny]

From what I understand supplementing is pretty much the same but just less often, correct? So maybe twice a week calcium witout d3 and every 5 to 6 weeks calcium with d3 and than a multivitamin every few months.

I dust feeders for my jax with repashy's calcium plus LoD (made special
for montanes) a few times a week, and multivitamin very lightly once a month.

But your right, it's pretty much the same, only less.

Water and temp are different also.
Jax tend to respond slowly to drinking. The water needs to drip like rain on
top of them sometimes for a minute before they start opening their mouth
to drink.
When I water Noogie, I go through a quart or so of warm water.

You could get a Rain Dome and put it on a timer, but those things really
dump a LOT of water, so only set it to go off a few times a day, but for
several minutes each cycle, to give him/her time to get under it and start drinking.
They are slow