If chams thermoregulate, why do higher basking temps matter?

[Lovereps]

I've been wondering lately ....
Assuming good health; won't a cham simply move itself to an area with a more suitable temperature if the basking area is 5 or 10 degrees above their preferred/suggested basking temperatures?

 

[cricketkilla]

Basking is critical to how they digest food. This is why I do my feeding as early in the day as possible.

 

[Hoj]

Some chams simply like the top of the cage and or are drawn to the uvb. Giving them a safe temp just simlifies thing and prevents burns and waht not

 

[Carlton]

I've been wondering lately ....
Assuming good health; won't a cham simply move itself to an area with a more suitable temperature if the basking area is 5 or 10 degrees above their preferred/suggested basking temperatures?

The cham's ability to detect when "hot is TOO hot" is limited, and it works better in the broadly diffused heat of the sun, not the very focused beam of a spotlight. The way we create basking heat energy in cages is part of the problem.

 

[pssh]

You would think they could, but like carlton has said, the lights are much different than the sun. They also feel pain differently and will not always move away when it is too hot. Many chameleons have been burned badly because of this.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Why do people get sunburned? I've been sunburned over and over because I thought I got out of the sun in time but didn't. By the time you feel the effect the damage is already done. Spotlight basking is much more concentrated than warming from the sun. We keep them at an optimal temperature because higher than that has proved to cause thermal burns.

 

[Nicolas]

If the heat point is located and therefore there is a good thermal gradient and in a ventilated terrarium, the temperatures can be high.

For example, for a pardalis, you can have 35-40° and for a calyptratus 40-45° celsius, without problems.

It's just very important that this heat point is well located.
They reach them average temperature preference faster so they don't dry all the day under the spot. They are more active with high temp.

Don't confuse the critical maximum temperature who is the maximum internal temperature supported and the environmental temperature.
In the wild, this is what happens.

This principle, is valid for a lot of reptiles species.

 

[Lovereps]

Thank you for all the replies.
I always appreciate it when people take the time to share their ideas and knowledge.

 

[nickb]

If the heat point is located and therefore there is a good thermal gradient and in a ventilated terrarium, the temperatures can be high.

For example, for a pardalis, you can have 35-40° and for a calyptratus 40-45° celsius, without problems.

It's just very important that this heat point is well located.
They reach them average temperature preference faster so they don't dry all the day under the spot. They are more active with high temp.

Don't confuse the critical maximum temperature who is the maximum internal temperature supported and the environmental temperature.
In the wild, this is what happens.

This principle, is valid for a lot of reptiles species.

35 to 40 celsius for a pardalis? Doesn't that equal out to 95-100 degrees F? Most people have sent me in the lower range for panthers. Are you suggesting that they can only reach that temperature in a small section of a branch? How would they know when to get out of the heat, as stated by ferret? Is it just about making sure it doesn't pass 105? Makes sense about how they don't fry all day in the sun, but pardalis have a very filtered light source in Madagascar. And I know it doesn't get that hot there ( in the winter anyway, not sure about summer ). Interesting discussion

 

[Nicolas]

Yes, 95-104° F.
But it is important that the heat point is very located, only in a small section of a branch. Like this, they can have a good thermal gradient and they can regulate well them body temperature. When they reached their average temperature preference, they remove the hot spot, simply.
And of course, should not be such high temperatures in a glass terrarium, but in a well ventilated terrarium.
We French, or rather many of us, do like this. I know that you English you have lower temperatures but I am not very agree.

Note that the average temperature preference change according to the age and to its state. For example, the average temperature is higher if they digest or for a gravid female. If I'm not mistaken, the average temperature for a gravid female F.pardalis is about 30° C so with a heat point at about 30° or 32° C...I think that the chams spend too long time under the spot, they dry out and finally don't reached the correct temperature essential to the functioning of their metabolism

In the wild, they aren't all the day under the sun but when they are, the temperatures can be very high. That is why I prefer to have a good heat point, to reproduce this natural phenomenon

I also think that the infrared are very important. Infrared dry out less the chameleons than classicals bulbs and warm up them in depth so they stay warmer longer so are more active.
Some French breeders are currently testing quartz reflectors as heat point, for provide them enough infrared. I would like to try too.


Sorry for my English.

 

[nickb]

Great points and the English was fine! Much better than some I see on here lol. Thanks for the explanation. I have a lower basking spot and I see my boy sitting under the light for a long amount of time, seemingly unpleasant. I'm going to play with some branches to see how he behaves. The issue I had with the high basking spot before is sometimes e would hang in it all day and sometimes he would totally avoid it - it this because maybe the basking spot didn't have enough gradient to it? Say 104-86?

 

[jannb]

I keep chameleons cooler. I keep babies in the low 80's and adult veileds in the high 80's and adult panthers in the mid 80's. We were recently in Maddy and never once saw a Cham basking in the sun and we were out looking for them all times of the day. They were always in the shade of the trees/bushes where it was cool. I only put my guys in the direct sun eary in the morning for about and hour and then move them to the shade but since I went to Maddy I'm wondering if maybe even this hour might be too much. We got up really early one morning, at sunrise and went out Cham hunting and still not one Cham was out for morning sun.

 

[Nicolas]

The issue I had with the high basking spot before is sometimes e would hang in it all day and sometimes he would totally avoid it - it this because maybe the basking spot didn't have enough gradient to it? Say 104-86?

At my place, my chams are only hanging on fence when the basking spot is too cold.

I keep chameleons cooler. I keep babies in the low 80's and adult veileds in the high 80's and adult panthers in the mid 80's.

Yes obviously, babies must to be keep colder but for adults veileds, you can have 40-45°C at the basking spot and a warm zone at about 30-35°C, in mid 27-30°C and after down to 22-25°C in the colder zone at the bottom of the cage.
They come from Yemen and Saudi arabia so they need high temperatures.
Ch.calyptratus is however a robust specie and they can support temperatures near freezing at night if temperatures rise during day. It's here that we see the beneficial of infrared.
When the temperatures are too cold, they hide between stones to enjoy the thermal inertia. But I think you learn anything here, you can see this to the exogenous populations of Veileds in Florida.

 

[nickb]

I was going to ask you to chime in on this Jann lol. Do you know why he may be lingering in the basking spot? It's not for a crazy long time but he definitely seemed a little dried out from hanging there so long. His basking is 86 and ambient goes from 75-72ish. Do your boys tend to laze in the sun for a while? He's up at 6 so he could just be doing some afternoon basking. Afterwards he chills in the shade.

 

[jannb]

At my place, my chams are only hanging on fence when the basking spot is too cold.



Yes obviously, babies must to be keep colder but for adults veileds, you can have 40-45°C at the basking spot and a warm zone at about 30-35°C, in mid 27-30°C and after down to 22-25°C in the colder zone at the bottom of the cage.
They come from Yemen and Saudi arabia so they need high temperatures.
Ch.calyptratus is however a robust specie and they can support temperatures near freezing at night if temperatures rise during day. It's here that we see the beneficial of infrared.
When the temperatures are too cold, they hide between stones to enjoy the thermal inertia. But I think you learn anything here, you can see this to the exogenous populations of Veileds in Florida.

I don't use cages. All my guys free range. I guess my veileds are use to the FL air conditioning because they turn a light color and open their mouth when we are outside and they get to warm.

I was going to ask you to chime in on this Jann lol. Do you know why he may be lingering in the basking spot? It's not for a crazy long time but he definitely seemed a little dried out from hanging there so long. His basking is 86 and ambient goes from 75-72ish. Do your boys tend to laze in the sun for a while? He's up at 6 so he could just be doing some afternoon basking. Afterwards he chills in the shade.

I rarely see them under their basking lights in the free ranges but they do bask in the morning sun outside for about an hour early in the mornings. You could try upping the temps a bit. Just keep a close eye on him.

 

[KatCham]

My panther Simba rarely moves from his basking spot of 32C (90f) or if he does its not far past the immediate surrounding areas, but I'd be wary of making it any higher in case he burnt himself

 

[Cainschams]

My panther Simba rarely moves from his basking spot of 32C (90f) or if he does its not far past the immediate surrounding areas, but I'd be wary of making it any higher in case he burnt himself

How cool is the rest of the cage though?

IMO. A high basking temp is not a problem if a nice temp gradient is provided. When using a higher basking temp you want to make sure the spot lamp is not sitting directly on the screen if you are using a cage or is a good ways away if using a free range. This way the heat is more dissipated and the animal cant get right next to the bulb where the heat is more concentrated.