I seriously need help from someone!

[PenelopeLove]

Hi Dr O

Ernie went to the vet last night as I was just so worried about him not eating. He had eaten one cricket during the day, but I thought it best to be safe.

I was given some lacto-bacilli to give to him to settle his stomach and stimulate his appetite.

I also went through everything I've observed and mentioned on this thread and he didn't seem to be too concerned at this point as the poop problem has stopped and so has the eye bubble thing.

He was very thorough to check Ernie, but if I see the eye bubble tomorrow, I'll be taking him back.

I installed his mistking and he loves it already! I'm hoping this will improve things for him and get him back on track again

If you have any other suggestions, I'd be very grateful so I know what to look out for.

 

[Dr O]

tincture of time seems to be the best option right now to see how he responds. good job taking him in!

i would keep us apprised every day or 2 or if something changes dramatically one way or the other.

 

[PenelopeLove]

tincture of time seems to be the best option right now to see how he responds. good job taking him in!

i would keep us apprised every day or 2 or if something changes dramatically one way or the other.

Thanks for your advice Dr. O The bubble seems to be gone now!? Not too sure what was going on with that. He didn't eat yesterday or today again.

I have this stuff called Jump-Start by Zilla, can I use it to encourage him?
These are the ingredients:

Ingredients
Corn Syrup, Soybean Oil, Malt Syrup, Cod Liver Oil, Cane Molasses, Methylcellulose, Water, Gelatin By-products, Cyanocobalamin (Vitamin B12), Niacin, Thiamine HCI, Manganese Sulfate, Calcium Pantothenate (Source Of Calcium and Pantothenic Acid), Pyriodoxine HCI, Vitamin A Palmitate & D3 Supplement, Potassium Iodide (Source of Iodine and Potassium), Iron Proteinate, Magnesium Sulfate, Riboflavin 51-Phosphate Sodium (Source of Vitamin B2 and Phosphorous), Folic acid, dl-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E) and Sodium Benzoate (Preservative).

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein
0.68% Min
Crude Fat
34.5% Min
Crude Fiber
5.7% Max
Moisture
14.21% Max
Ash
0.5% Max
Calcium
0.038% Min
0.06% Max
Phosphorous
0.0096% Min
Sodium
0.0168% Min
Potassium
0.035% Min
Chloride
0.0055% Min
Magnesium
0.0063% Min
Iron
0.0105% Min
Manganese
0.0158% Min
Iodine
0.0080% Min
Vitamin A
3,468,000 IU/oz Min
Vitamin D
59,800 IU/oz Min
Vitamin E
23,600 IU/oz Min
Vitamin B12 (Cyanocobalamin)
8.6 mg/oz Min
Vitamin B2 (Riboflavin)
51 mg/oz Min
Pantothenic Acid
8,200 mg/oz Min
Vitamin B1 (Thiamine)
7,100 mg/oz Min
Niacin
8,900 mg/oz Min
Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine)
3,400 mg/oz Min
Folic Acid
890 mg/oz Min

 

[Chameleon Company]

Seems to me that all the temperatures mentioned sounded TOO LOW ! A daytime ambient air-temp of 83-88F would be preferred, with a basking spot into the mid 90's. With the latter, I would tape a common outdoor thermometer on the basking spot, face up at the heat source, and calibrate distance and wattage until you can maintain at least 92 F at that spot. Then you can remove the thermometer. The cage will naturally be cooler as the chameleon moves away from that spot.

Montane species etc. certainly like it cooler. But not panthers.

Nights into the low 70's is fine.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Here is the weather forecast for where he is native to: Nosy Be.

Today

91 °F

Thunderstorm
20% chance of precipitation


Tonight

77 °F

Chance of T-storms
40% chance of precipitation


Tomorrow

90 | 75 °F

Partly Cloudy


Monday

90 | 75 °F

Chance of a Thunderstorm
20% chance of precipitation


Tuesday

91 | 75 °F

Chance of a Thunderstorm
20% chance of precipitation


Wednesday

91 | 75 °F

Chance of T-storms
40% chance of


http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/67012.html

 

[PenelopeLove]

@chameleon company:
Hello thank you for taking the time to read my thread and offer suggestions for me.. I certainly appreciate it!

I have just installed my mistking and it seems to be making him happy

I am monitoring the temps at the moment as I have shifted the position of the cage to accommodate for the mistking and better ventilation as there is a return air duct directly above to where the cage is.
So far the lowest temp over night has been 71 and basking spot temps are high 80s so I will keep an eye on that and see if they go higher over the next few days.. He seems very comfortable in that particular area at the temp it is for the moment though. The mist doesn't spray there.

I am trying to get some extra lighting set up over the cage.. Just a full spec lamp to provide extra daytime light as I'm feeling the cage is too dark for him and might be part of the problem.. My problem is in getting a starter for the lamp.. Can you believe that not one petshop sells anything to turn the tubes on but they all sell heaps of different types of tubes!?!? Figure that one out! I'm still searching...

Should I add an aquarium heater to the mister to increase ambient temps and humidity? I've been debating with myself over what is best.

Also, any thoughts on the Zilla Jump-Start?

 

[Chameleon Company]

@chameleon company:
Hello thank you for taking the time to read my thread and offer suggestions for me.. I certainly appreciate it!

I have just installed my mistking and it seems to be making him happy

I am monitoring the temps at the moment as I have shifted the position of the cage to accommodate for the mistking and better ventilation as there is a return air duct directly above to where the cage is.
So far the lowest temp over night has been 71 and basking spot temps are high 80s so I will keep an eye on that and see if they go higher over the next few days.. He seems very comfortable in that particular area at the temp it is for the moment though. The mist doesn't spray there.

I am trying to get some extra lighting set up over the cage.. Just a full spec lamp to provide extra daytime light as I'm feeling the cage is too dark for him and might be part of the problem.. My problem is in getting a starter for the lamp.. Can you believe that not one petshop sells anything to turn the tubes on but they all sell heaps of different types of tubes!?!? Figure that one out! I'm still searching...

Should I add an aquarium heater to the mister to increase ambient temps and humidity? I've been debating with myself over what is best.

Also, any thoughts on the Zilla Jump-Start?

Couple of answers. I would seek to get your temps right with lighting. If the basking spot is low 90's, you will have a broad enough thermal gradient as the animal moves away from that spot so as to find its liking. Humidity is not as important so long as the animal gets at least two drinking opportunities daily.

If you are seeking the small twist-in starters for a florescent fixture, most hardware/lighting stores will carry them. Take your old one with you to match it up. They are inexpensive.

If the animal is active, and the temps and other basic husbandry is good, I do not see a need for any jump-start product. If you wanted to try it once, there's not much harm. But I would be loathe to put much faith in such unless you are essentially trying to recover an animal from death's doorstep, in which case it would be as to force-feed.

Hope he gets with the program quickly.

 

[Dr O]

Also, any thoughts on the Zilla Jump-Start?

frankly there’s just not enough use out there in the cham world to know, but i would personally just continue to use the lactobacillus that your vet gave you. if you want to try Jump-Start, you will be reporting back to us more than we to you.

and of course jim is correct about the temps. fwiw, for most sick reptiles one of the first things on my list to tell owners to do is raise the ambient and basking temps 5-10° with the cooler spots still present. virtually anything that you can think of that goes on in your cham’s body is temperature regulated, and now would be a good time for a little speed up of metabolism with a correlated increase in immune function and activity.

o—

 

[PenelopeLove]

frankly there’s just not enough use out there in the cham world to know, but i would personally just continue to use the lactobacillus that your vet gave you. if you want to try Jump-Start, you will be reporting back to us more than we to you.

and of course jim is correct about the temps. fwiw, for most sick reptiles one of the first things on my list to tell owners to do is raise the ambient and basking temps 5-10° with the cooler spots still present. virtually anything that you can think of that goes on in your cham’s body is temperature regulated, and now would be a good time for a little speed up of metabolism with a correlated increase in immune function and activity.

o—

ok.. so I have lowered his basking lamp just a little to bring up the temps and will monitor that to see where the temps reach to at their height. He still has plenty of cool spots to roam to and I have the basking lamp tilted so he has a few different warm spots in his basking area so he has a choice. I have found he prefers the lamp tilted rather than pointing directly down.

This morning I gave him his lactobacillus and he regurgitated it after about 15mins! Obviously, he doesn't like it as he pretty much waited for me to be looking at him so he could show me he did not want it...

Could it be possible that as it is winter his metabolism has slowed down? He is VERY active and prefers to be adventuring out of his cage at any given opportunity. He has lost approx. 4g in the last 3 weeks. I guess this is why I'm concerned about the eating. He is so active that he's using energy and not replacing it. He does drink a lot and would happily drink for 15-20mins straight under his dripper at times. His mistking his going off 4 times a day first time for 10mins and then 1min, 5mins, 1min. I have been checking on this over the last 2 days and this is providing more than enough extra drinking water.

I have attached a picture from yesterday of Ernie as he goes on a little adventure in my room.. this is the first time he has really shown bright blue colours. I never handle him and take him out of his cage when I'm in my room, I simply leave the door open and give him the choice to come out if he wishes. Apologies for the poor picture quality, I took them on my iPhone. Is there anything you see that is ringing any bells?

I'm really starting to worry now.

 

[Chameleon Company]

ok.. so I have lowered his basking lamp just a little to bring up the temps and will monitor that to see where the temps reach to at their height. He still has plenty of cool spots to roam to and I have the basking lamp tilted so he has a few different warm spots in his basking area so he has a choice. I have found he prefers the lamp tilted rather than pointing directly down.

This morning I gave him his lactobacillus and he regurgitated it after about 15mins! Obviously, he doesn't like it as he pretty much waited for me to be looking at him so he could show me he did not want it...

Could it be possible that as it is winter his metabolism has slowed down? He is VERY active and prefers to be adventuring out of his cage at any given opportunity. He has lost approx. 4g in the last 3 weeks. I guess this is why I'm concerned about the eating. He is so active that he's using energy and not replacing it. He does drink a lot and would happily drink for 15-20mins straight under his dripper at times. His mistking his going off 4 times a day first time for 10mins and then 1min, 5mins, 1min. I have been checking on this over the last 2 days and this is providing more than enough extra drinking water.

I have attached a picture from yesterday of Ernie as he goes on a little adventure in my room.. this is the first time he has really shown bright blue colours. I never handle him and take him out of his cage when I'm in my room, I simply leave the door open and give him the choice to come out if he wishes. Apologies for the poor picture quality, I took them on my iPhone. Is there anything you see that is ringing any bells?

I'm really starting to worry now.

Pen. You may be worrying to the point of over-managing our critter, IMMHO. It is a hugely large problem, especially in the workd of internet forums. It is symptomatic of the "fix one problem, create two more problems" that plagues chameleon husbandry, often rampant in forum advice.

Have you tried a variety of alternate bugs ? Do you know that panthers, and especially male panthers, will become fixated, and almost spoiled to the point of starvation, on one variety of insect, to the illogical point of near starvation when presented with other bugs ?

Try some other insects if you can. But I implore you to be cautious about compelling change. I would characterize it more as a need to create the best possible husbandry conditions, and then tweaking it to find out what works for your critter. These animals are of a higher level of intelligence, and the ability to be finicky, than many realize.

If you can, go catch the Arabian version of a big grasshopper, or katydid, or similar. See if he has an appetite for such.

Patience.

For those that know. It is not unlike when a dog realizes that table scraps taste better then the usual dry-kibble dog food. From that point forward, the dog will show a lack of desire to eat the same old dog food. Panthers will show the same behavior, once presented with a new bug, and then not wanting to eat the same old "meatloaf again" bug. Much more with the males.

And good luck.

 

[PenelopeLove]

Pen. You may be worrying to the point of over-managing our critter, IMMHO. It is a hugely large problem, especially in the workd of internet forums. It is symptomatic of the "fix one problem, create two more problems" that plagues chameleon husbandry, often rampant in forum advice.

Have you tried a variety of alternate bugs ? Do you know that panthers, and especially male panthers, will become fixated, and almost spoiled to the point of starvation, on one variety of insect, to the illogical point of near starvation when presented with other bugs ?

Try some other insects if you can. But I implore you to be cautious about compelling change. I would characterize it more as a need to create the best possible husbandry conditions, and then tweaking it to find out what works for your critter. These animals are of a higher level of intelligence, and the ability to be finicky, than many realize.

If you can, go catch the Arabian version of a big grasshopper, or katydid, or similar. See if he has an appetite for such.

Patience.

For those that know. It is not unlike when a dog realizes that table scraps taste better then the usual dry-kibble dog food. From that point forward, the dog will show a lack of desire to eat the same old dog food. Panthers will show the same behavior, once presented with a new bug, and then not wanting to eat the same old "meatloaf again" bug. Much more with the males.

And good luck.

Thank you for your kind advice

I guess that's why I'm becoming worried, because other than needing to adjust my basking lamp after your suggestion, everything else is fine! haha!

I have a feeling he's just being naughty.. unfortunately, we can only get crickets and mealworms here, but I'm a little hesitant to offer mealworms as I understand their shells are a bit hard for them to digest.. We have a new reptile centre opening up and I have emailed them in the hope they will be selling some lovely fatty worms as a treat for my little man.. fingers crossed!

I have been told that the UAE does not permit importing bugs, but I'll see if I can convince one of the suppliers to help me out

I think in the 4 years I've lived here I've only seen 1 grasshopper haha! but I will keep my eyes out and try to see if I can find a spot where there are lots of bugs around to go for a hunt.

We have a lot of honey bees here.. the ones that collect the pollen often hang around Ernie's outside tree has it has lots of lovely little red flowers. He has never shown interest in them, but I was just wondering, if he did and he ate one, would it be bad for him?? I think these particular ones don't have stingers. Just for my information in case he feels particularly curious one day lol.

Again, thank you for your time and advice. I really really appreciate it

 

[ChameleonMom]

Ernie is absolutely stunning!! He looks like a lean machine and honestly, healthy as heck! I'll keep my fingers crossed that he overcomes his eating problems!

 

[PenelopeLove]

Ernie is absolutely stunning!! He looks like a lean machine and honestly, healthy as heck! I'll keep my fingers crossed that he overcomes his eating problems!

Hehe! I think so too I just adore him and his funny (yet stubborn) personality..

His mouth is healing up really well without the betadine and there isn't any sign of infection, so I'm taking that as my good sign to whether or not he is healthy, as I know this will be one of the first things for him that will show me he needs attention.

I guess him doing a bunch of strange this all at one just really freaked me out! He's so gorgeous I just want to be sure I haven't missed anything and catch any problems before they really do become problems.

After everything I went through with Penelope, I guess I just get a little nervous that something is going wrong.

Keeping my fingers crossed he'll eat tomorrow.. he had his second dose of Panacur last night before bed (didnt spit it out thank goodness!), so I know he won't eat today.

Naughty little boy!

 

[PenelopeLove]

ERNIE ATE A CRICKET TONIGHT!!!!

EEEEEEEEP!!! I can't even explain how happy I am!!!

I showed it to him and I thought he had no interest and then I put it on the screen of his cage and then.. WHOOSH! Chomp chomp chomp!

He only ate one and it was in the evening, but this is a massive improvement.. I hope he eats another one tomorrow during the day!

 

[Chameleon Company]

ERNIE ATE A CRICKET TONIGHT!!!!

EEEEEEEEP!!! I can't even explain how happy I am!!!

I showed it to him and I thought he had no interest and then I put it on the screen of his cage and then.. WHOOSH! Chomp chomp chomp!

He only ate one and it was in the evening, but this is a massive improvement.. I hope he eats another one tomorrow during the day!

LOL ... made me smile. Mealworms are OK, btw. The bang-for-the-buck would be with the larger superworms, but you have to work with what is avaliable.

You mean there are no roaches of note in Dubai ? ....... Maybe a nice spider ? They will eat such as a good-sized wolf spider.

Sound like he's getting back to normal. Hope it works out.

 

[PenelopeLove]

We have household roaches, but I haven't seen one in forever! We get big spiders sometimes, but they are mostly in the hills and I've been told most of them are quite venomous, so I wouldn't be able to tell if they were safe or not.

Varying his feeders is the biggest problem I face here. Crickets and mealworms.. SO BORING! But I haven't given up hope just yet..I will keep searching

 

[lovepicasso]

So happy that he ate a cricket, and that does make me smile.

 

[PenelopeLove]

Oh thank you!

No smiling for today unfortunately.. The eye that had the eye bubble stayed closed today for most of the day.. I gave him a warm shower and he seemed to like it.. He put his pjs on and went to sleep! It was close to bed time anyway.

Just did the shower as his eye had sunken since the morning and I couldn't see any infection, so just did the shower to encourage some water for him to clean a bit and see how he is in the morning. I don't think he had much to drink either.

Anyway.. I'll see how he is in the morning and go from there.. If his eye is the same tomorrow then we'll go see the vet in case he has an infection like Dr. O mentioned earlier.

I seriously wish I could get my hands on a big juicy worm right now!!!

 

[PenelopeLove]

Question..

Has anyone else even seen their chams sleep with their head pointing upward and not resting on the branch/vine??

That's what he's doing right now and he definitely asleep.. is that weird??

 

[PenelopeLove]

Oh thank you!

No smiling for today unfortunately.. The eye that had the eye bubble stayed closed today for most of the day.. I gave him a warm shower and he seemed to like it.. He put his pjs on and went to sleep! It was close to bed time anyway.

Just did the shower as his eye had sunken since the morning and I couldn't see any infection, so just did the shower to encourage some water for him to clean a bit and see how he is in the morning. I don't think he had much to drink either.

Anyway.. I'll see how he is in the morning and go from there.. If his eye is the same tomorrow then we'll go see the vet in case he has an infection like Dr. O mentioned earlier.

I seriously wish I could get my hands on a big juicy worm right now!!!

No Change this morning. Did another shower session this morning to get him warm and hydrated. He's pale and keeping his eyes closed and they are very sunken.

I have a visit with the vet this afternoon. I really hope we can find out what is wrong.