I seriously need help from someone!

[PenelopeLove]

Ok. Now I'm really worried.

Ernie is being VERY strange. I have emailed the vet, but haven't had any response yet.

He's only had 2 crickets in the last 2 weeks. He's had a dose of 0.05ml of Panacur which he had last Monday (31 Dec). Except his eating and 3 times that he pooped (like the attached pictures), he has been fine. Drinking, active and sleeping as normal. He's been out of his cage and gone on a few adventures in the backyard and in the lounge room, because that's what makes him happy. No falls, no lethargy.

Yesterday I come home, find him under his basking lamp completely black with his body sucked in thin and tilting to the side with his eyes closed about an hour and a half before bed time. This is not normal for him at all. If he wants to go to bed early he will go hide in the plant somewhere shady out of the light and he very rarely closes his eyes before lights out.. he gets himself ready for bed, but never closes his eyes.

Later that night, my dad mentioned that when he'd gotten home that afternoon, about 3pm, he went in to check on Ernie and he said he'd found him completely black and on the floor of the cage. He didn't touch him or do anything, that was just how he found him and left him be.

PLEASE.. can someone help me out.. I have no idea what on earth is going on!

 

[ReptileLove18]

i just became a chameleon owner and a part of this forum but i have a few comments and questions.
what is the panacur being given to him for? maybe that is why he isnt eating properly. how much does he normally eat each a day? i think his poop looks a rather strange color, my chams poop is much more brown then that but like i said im a brand new cham mom and am only commenting off of the research ive done in an attempt to help you.
also, maybe he is feeling weak from barely eating because 2 crickets in a week is not much at all and he fell and thats how your dad found him on the floor.

i dont know if this helps at all but i hope he starts feeling better..



also, fill this out, people use this when posting in the medical forum to help people evaluate what may be going on with you cham. let me know how things go!


Here is some recommended information to include when asking for help in the health clinic forum. By providing this information, you will receive more accurate and beneficial responses. It might not be necessary to answer all these questions, but the more you provide the better. Please remember that even the most knowledgeable person can only guess at what your problem may be. Only an experienced reptile veterinarian who can directly examine your animal can give a true diagnosis of your chameleon's health.


Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.


Pictures are helpful

 

[ChameleonMom]

Hmmmm, that doesn't sound good! I've given my girl her third (and last dose) of Panacur on Jan 3rd and she's a teeny bit darker but not black. I know Panacur is hard on a chams stomach and they can go off their food, but only 2 crickets in 2 weeks? That's not enough food especially if Ernie's been behaving somewhat normally before the Panacur. Has he been eating anything else like veg, leafy veg or fruit? Is there a chance he could have ingested something while outside or in the lounge? Also, any medication is hard on a chams kidney's so extra water is required. His fecal matter looks a little jelly-ish and an odd color. I would probably put him in a hospital cage to prevent injuries from a high fall as the tilting normally means he is needing heat, but most probably he is becoming weak. I had a cham who was so weak she couldn't hold herself upright and started tilting so much she ended up hanging upside down like a bat. Weakness may be Ernie's problem as it seems he's taken a fall. I would also handle him and give him a once over. Are his ribs intact? Any bites, cuts or burns? Are his feet and nails okay? Could any insect or animal have bitten him outside? I would gently handle him and see. Other than that I don't have any really useful advice, sorry! I would probably keep him warm, low to the ground and hydrated until you hear from your vet. I know you are doing everything right, so I will pray that Ernie hangs on till the vet responds! Good luck and keeping you both in my thoughts!

 

[ReptileLove18]

i just read about a snake being given a higher dosage of panacur then it needed and getting quickly progressing liver problems. i dont know if this may be part of what he's going thru but that is something you may want to look into.

 

[PenelopeLove]

Hmmmm, that doesn't sound good! I've given my girl her third (and last dose) of Panacur on Jan 3rd and she's a teeny bit darker but not black. I know Panacur is hard on a chams stomach and they can go off their food, but only 2 crickets in 2 weeks? That's not enough food especially if Ernie's been behaving somewhat normally before the Panacur. Has he been eating anything else like veg, leafy veg or fruit? Is there a chance he could have ingested something while outside or in the lounge? Also, any medication is hard on a chams kidney's so extra water is required. His fecal matter looks a little jelly-ish and an odd color. I would probably put him in a hospital cage to prevent injuries from a high fall as the tilting normally means he is needing heat, but most probably he is becoming weak. I had a cham who was so weak she couldn't hold herself upright and started tilting so much she ended up hanging upside down like a bat. Weakness may be Ernie's problem as it seems he's taken a fall. I would also handle him and give him a once over. Are his ribs intact? Any bites, cuts or burns? Are his feet and nails okay? Could any insect or animal have bitten him outside? I would gently handle him and see. Other than that I don't have any really useful advice, sorry! I would probably keep him warm, low to the ground and hydrated until you hear from your vet. I know you are doing everything right, so I will pray that Ernie hangs on till the vet responds! Good luck and keeping you both in my thoughts!

Hi ChameleonMom,

I checked him over last night and everything seems fine. heat wise, he gets between 90-95 under his basking lamp so I'm sure it can't be heat.

I was thinking that there might be a chance he was climbing around and slipped and fell and he's given himself a fright?? I'm going to make some bug juice and give it to him.. I've heard Panacur can put them off their appetite, but 2 crickets??? That's just not like him.

When he is out of his cage, he is ALWAYS supervised.. from a distance, so he has his space, but not left alone that a fall or him eating something would go unseen.

Since I've had him, his faecals have had that jelly-ish look to them... not exactly like that,, but like a thin film around it and then the urate is as normal.

I'm at a loss as to what is going wrong.. I see him drinking all the time and I'm only home for a small part of the day.

Any other thoughts???

 

[Tay And A]

He's too hot for one thing. Chams need to be between 70-75 degrees body temp.

 

[PenelopeLove]

He's too hot for one thing. Chams need to be between 70-75 degrees body temp.

He's an adult male panther.. Veileds - yes I agree. But male panthers need higher temps.

Plus he is in an Air-conditioned environment in a house that's made of concrete and in a screen cage trust me.. he needs heat.

He's had these temps for a while now and it seems strange that he would change like this in one aftrenoon.. he was fine yesterday morning.

 

[Elizadolots]

It would be helpful if you completed the "how to ask for help" form.

Just click this link: https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-ask-help-66/ and copy the questions, put them in a post and insert your information.

I will note that when they feel cold, chameleons will turn dark to try to absorb heat and they will lean to the side to maximize exposure to the sun/light/heat.

 

[Fearaffect]

He's too hot for one thing. Chams need to be between 70-75 degrees body temp.

That would be what the ambient temp. of the cage should be like from bottom to mid top during the day.........basking spots can be hotter..in the mid 80's. Ive had montanes out basking when temps were in the 90's with no bad effects on them, yet others were in the middle of their cage in the plants cooling down.

Penelope, I'd say youre basking spot is a bit hot. Ive found some chams that bask in hot areas sometimes bask for to long and by the time they've dehydrated, they dont move away....kinda like they're "Paralyzed" n that spot.
Fill out that questionnaire so we can know more on whats happening with your cham and its overall living conditions.

 

[PenelopeLove]

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - 1yr.o. Male Nosy Be. Has been in my care for Over a month.
Handling - On weekends, just to put him out on the free range for a few hours outside and then put him back in his cage.
Feeding - Crickets. he was eating 4-6 each morning. Gutloading with fresh veggies and cricket crack.
Supplements - Daily dust feeders with RepCal no D3, Once a week will dust feeders with Sticky Tongue Farms MultiVit + D3
Watering - I mist 2xDaily with warm water for 3-4mins. I also use a dripper and I see him drinking regularly.
Faecal Description - As pics attached and described in above reply. Has been tested for parasites. Results showed he has tapeworm eggs and a little higher than normal amount of pinworms. He has been given Panacur to be administered 3 times (once a fortnight)
History - All I know is he is CB and he arrived in the country just under 6 weeks ago. Has been with the wholesaler the whole time before coming to me through the petstore. Was only at the petstore for 3-4hrs.

He has been to visit the vet for a general health check up about a week after I got him and to check a stress wound on his bottom lip where he had completely rubbed through it. There was no infection in or around the wound and it is continuing to heal with scar tissue around the area. I was given betadine to put on there just as a safeguard to prevent any infection forming, but he hates the taste and is now deathly afraid of cotton tips!


Cage Info:

Cage Type - 2x2x4 Reptibreeze w/cork tile background.
Lighting - 75W Basking Bulb and 18" 5.0 Reptisun. 12hrs on/off.
Temperature - What temp range have you created? cage floor 65-70 to basking spot 90-95
- Lowest overnight temp? 65
- How do you measure these temps? 1 digital Thermo/Hygro & 1 normal Thermo/Hygro
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? 50 -70
- How are you creating and maintaining these levels? Misting Warm Water
- What do you use to measure humidity? 1 digital Thermo/Hygro & 1 normal Thermo/Hygro
Plants - Umbrella Tree the height of the cage.
Placement - Cage is in my bedroom (low traffic). 28" from floor, over 6' at the top of the cage. AC in the room, but vent does not blow on cage.
Location - Dubai, United Arab Emirates

 

[PenelopeLove]

That would be what the ambient temp. of the cage should be like from bottom to mid top during the day.........basking spots can be hotter..in the mid 80's. Ive had montanes out basking when temps were in the 90's with no bad effects on them, yet others were in the middle of their cage in the plants cooling down.

Penelope, I'd say youre basking spot is a bit hot. Ive found some chams that bask in hot areas sometimes bask for to long and by the time they've dehydrated, they dont move away....kinda like they're "Paralyzed" n that spot.
Fill out that questionnaire so we can know more on whats happening with your cham and its overall living conditions.

He comes and goes from his spot. It is winter here and (believe it or not ) actually really cold! I have never seen him gasping or noticed anything that tells me it is too hot.. I have tried a 60w bulb and I couldn't get temps warm enough (he was cold which I could tell by what Elizadolots mentioned above).. his basking spot is about a foot below his light.. I forgot to mention that!

Oh and I have a mistking arriving tomorrow, so that should steady the humidity and temps.

 

[Fearaffect]

Only thing I can really see there is that since he is an "adult" and getting some natural sun outside.....ur using to much D3. Id reduce to 1-2x a month and reduce reg. calcium dustings to 2-3x a week. Gut load your insects real good prior to feeding..
Add an additional misting for about 1 minute

His health might be from the sore.....an infection (that the vet missed...it happens) couldve gotten into his system and is now affecting his whole body.
Bacteria couldve gone in from wound, and infected other parts of body with no affect at wound site.

 

[PenelopeLove]

Only thing I can really see there is that since he is an "adult" and getting some natural sun outside.....ur using to much D3. Id reduce to 1-2x a month and reduce reg. calcium dustings to 2-3x a week. Gut load your insects real good prior to feeding..
Add an additional misting for about 1 minute

His health might be from the sore.....an infection (that the vet missed...it happens) couldve gotten into his system and is now affecting his whole body.
Bacteria couldve gone in from wound, and infected other parts of body with no affect at wound site.

Oh my I'm so worried.. I'll check his mouth again if he's looking ok and it wont stress him too much. I did check yesterday and everything looked really good and clean.

Thank you for your advice. I'll see how he's doing when I get home. I can't stop thinking about him

 

[Dr O]

Has been tested for parasites. Results showed he has tapeworm eggs and a little higher than normal amount of pinworms. He has been given Panacur to be administered 3 times (once a fortnight)

the panacur amount seems correct unless they have a different concentration in the UAE, which i doubt. but the vast majority of tapeworms need praziquantel (Droncit) to treat, so if he really showed them on the fecal, he still has them.

 

[PenelopeLove]

Hi Dr O?
Ok maybe tapeworm is wrong? Could it be ringworm eggs? She only said the common name once REALLY quickly over the phone, but I'm certain that the name of the worm egg type started with an 'A' or an 'A' sound if that helps?
I took him out tonight when I got home just to check him over and see if there was anything that I may have missed earlier. I did notice after I misted him that his left eye towards his nose made a little bubble when he blinked, but by the time I put him back in his house it seemed to have gone away? I've taken a few pics in case there is something else I've missed and of the eye if there is something there I can't see...




Before taking these photos, he was his bright light colours (greeny bluey yellowy) he just doesn't like my iphone.
But when I got home, I did find him under his basking lamp, not as dark as yesterday but maybe brown, and then he lightened up to his happy light colours once I misted and took him out to check him over.
He didn't eat or poo today.
Any thoughts?

 

[PenelopeLove]

For those who had suggested lowering his basking temps, I have raised and tilted his lamp and my temps are reading between 80-85. I'll see how it goes

 

[ChameleonMom]

WOW!! Ernie is very STUNNING!!

I have read over your setup, etc and can't really see anything that is amiss. As I mentioned before I know you know what your doing after your time with Penelope so I am thinking your current problem may be medicine related as suggested by Dr. O. Did you get a response to your email from your vet? Is there any chance you can get him back in for clarification on his parasite problem?

I really wish I could help you more and I'll keep you both in my thoughts. He really is a handsome fella and I hope he overcomes whatever is ailing him! Continued good luck!

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Ok maybe tapeworm is wrong? Could it be ringworm eggs? She only said the common name once REALLY quickly over the phone, but I'm certain that the name of the worm egg type started with an 'A' or an 'A' sound if that helps?

Ascarids? That is the scientific name for roundworms, which are common intestinal parasites. And those are treated with panacur.

 

[PenelopeLove]

Ascarids? That is the scientific name for roundworms, which are common intestinal parasites. And those are treated with panacur.

YES! That's what she said!! it was just that it was said so quickly that I just couldn't recall exactly what she had said.. and I knew that I had a picture of a circle in my head when she was talking to me over the phone (I know that sounds so stupid).

Any thoughts on the loss of appetite? It has been a week now and I'm quite a bit worried about that.

The eye bubble thing is still happening too, but his eyes do not show any swelling, cloudyness, puss, etc. The movement is a little bit like when they clean their eyes, but a big balloon pops out the front near his nose.


@ChameleonMom - thank you I think he is very beautiful too.. I hope one day he might really show me his nosy be blues!!!

 

[Dr O]

The eye bubble thing is still happening too, but his eyes do not show any swelling, cloudyness, puss, etc. The movement is a little bit like when they clean their eyes, but a big balloon pops out the front near his nose.

there is a duct that connects the fluid from her tears to her nostrils/oral region, and that duct commonly gets plugged up with debris or infection. your vet needs to know that you have been seeing that consistently enough to warrant topical and systemic antibiotics at this point imo. letting it go can worsen greatly, and it’s much easier to treat in the early stages while the duct is still open with the use of antibiotic eye drops.

i would start by calling your vet and describing it, they may just put up new medicine for you to pick up. if they want to see her, i would advise following their advice. my 2¢ is this illness is the source of her depression and anorexia.