I made my purchase!

[Slug]

They're never bred because they cost $1-$5 on the importer lists and such. Who can compete with that when they would cost $50 per animal to raise from egg?!

With that said, they're not the easiest to breed either. It's been done a handful of times, but it's certainly not something that is accomplished every day. The issues seem to be more with finding multiple animals from the same locale (they're spread all over the equator in Africa) and incubating the eggs than anything else. Also, being a rather "plain" chameleon doesn't give them much market interest either so it's basically the Green Anole of the chameleon world.

We are working with a group of senegalensis to see if we can make any headway and hopefully publish our experiences one day. We've had great luck with the WC's we've hand picked though they're still acclimating and won't be introduced until I'm sure they're free of all parasites and nasties.

Now on the issue of CB senegalensis from this company, well if they told you over the phone that it was CB, it was a bald face lie. Look at the scarring around the eye socket as well as how thin and boney this one is. These are all signs of the import process. They will heal up after a few sheds but it's still very advisable to get a fecal examined by a vet to make sure you won't face strange problems in a month or two. Good luck and keep us posted.

Cheers!

Luis

Thanks, man. I appreciate the input. I would be really interested in your finding on breeding them in captivity.

As far as identifying signs of WC vs. CB, I am really new to that. In other words, I have no clue and will take any help I can get. One thing I have heard is that WC chams tend to be more nervous around people than CB. Mine seems fairly comfortable around me and has even climbed onto my girlfriends hand from the cage, so I don't know what to think anymore.

Let's go with it being a WC Senegal...what now? How do I go about getting a fecal analysis done? When should I do it? What happens if they find parasites? Please fill me in. Like I have said before, I just want to do what is best for my new cham.

Thanks again, Slug

 

[Slug]

Update!:

So, I got ahold of Big Apple Pet Supply today on my lunch break, and I had a really interesting talk with them that ended pretty positively. So bear with me as I explain...

I talked to one of the managers there and asked if the Senegals were captive bred or wild caught, she replied with CB. I asked if she was 100 sure, and she put me on hold to talk to the chameleon keeper, who told her that the Senegals and Gracefuls were WC. She got back on the phone and told me how sorry she was that she led me to believe that they were CB, and asked me if I wanted to send it back for a full refund. I told her I would have to think about it because I didn't want to stress it out or possibly kill it during shipment. She then put me on hold and went to go get Steven (the owner of BAPS).

Steven gets on and asks me to explain to him the situation. I do, and he asked me what my reasoning behind not wanting a WC Senegal was. I explained about how I was worried that it would be full of parasites and hard to acclimate. He told me that they do not sell any animal on their site until it has been in house and eating/drinking well on it's own for 2 weeks, no less. During this time, any WC animals are treated for parasites.

I pointed out how their site states very clearly that they do not sell any WC animals. He told me that they recently started selling WC chameleons to allow them to carry a wider variety of chameleons, and what must have happened was when they added them to the site, the template was just copied and pasted from the other pages without being modified to include a new policy. He also told me that he had his IT guy right next to him making the needed changes to the site. (Honestly, I thought this was just a story to get me off the phone faster)

Steven then did something that blew me away. He told me that he has sold a bunch of Senegals from his site and hasn't had any problems from any customers, he then said that if it would make me feel better about my purchase, he would extend the Health Guarantee (which is listed on their site as a Live Arrival with a 3-Day Health Guarantee) to 6 weeks! He told me if there were any problems or concerns to call them back and let them know what they are and go from there, which could include everything from assistance and tips to shipping the chameleon back for a full refund. They wanted to do whatever they could to make my purchase right.

I trust them when they say that it was not an intentional lie, it was just a case of copy/paste gone wrong. The site was updated less than 15 minutes after I got off the phone with them, included having a picture added of the Senegals that they sell on their site. The only thing that hasn't been changed was the actual URL that shows up in the address bar, but he assured me that they were working on that as well.

This made me feel much better about buying my Senegal from BAPS, but also, to make 100% sure that there is no risk of parasites, I am going to have a fecal exam done by our local exotic pet vet.

Now the verification has been made. I own a WC Senegal.

Slug

 

[KarmaChameleon1337]

Do you know the sec? I'm pretty sure male, though don't usually study the sex determination very closely for Senegals, I've got Karma, know his sex, and that's all I need. I would say male from what looks to be a bulge, though more pics could help.

 

[Slug]

Do you know the sec? I'm pretty sure male, though don't usually study the sex determination very closely for Senegals, I've got Karma, know his sex, and that's all I need. I would say male from what looks to be a bulge, though more pics could help.

I have no idea what the sex is. Some have said female, but I am not sure what to think after finding out that is is WC. I also have no idea how old it is. Any help is welcome.

I will post more pics in my photo album. Hopefully they will help.

 

[allthingsreptile]

my senegal


this is Beauty, my senegal chameleon. She is captive bred and hatched, and absolutely wonderful. I have had WC and there is such a difference in overall look and temperment between them. I know that she is CBB because I know the gentleman who hatched her and have seen her parents and saw the eggs before they hatched. I only wished I got more than 1 of these little gems

 

[Slug]

View attachment 58049
this is Beauty, my senegal chameleon. She is captive bred and hatched, and absolutely wonderful. I have had WC and there is such a difference in overall look and temperment between them. I know that she is CBB because I know the gentleman who hatched her and have seen her parents and saw the eggs before they hatched. I only wished I got more than 1 of these little gems

Looks good! The temperament of mine seems pretty good, so far. Any thoughts on the sex and age?

Also, what size crickets do you recommend feeding it at my size? I have yet to see it eat, but have been putting small crickets into it's feeder cup and rotating out new ones each day, and have yet to notice any missing. What am I doing wrong?

 

[allthingsreptile]

feeding my senegal

Beauty loves little dubia roaches, wax worms(in moderation) little mealworms and 3 wk crickets, she also has a fogger and dripper, I think variety keeps them interested, just make sure your baby is staying hydrated

 

[Slug]

Still no luck...starting to get worried. Any help is welcome.

 

[Drago]

Have you let any of the crickets free range? My cham wouldn't eat out of a cup (although I haven't tried in several weeks) he seemed freaked out by the cup and didn't want any part of it.

 

[Slug]

I have. It seems to make them harder to keep track of, since I am trying to see if it is eating well. So I am kind if damned if I do, damned if I don't.

I have even tried placing a cricket a few inches in front of it on a leaf with no luck. The most I have found is a dismembered cricket in the cup, and I am not sure if that was the cause of feeding, or the other cricket that was in the cup ate it.

I will continue my efforts until I see some results. Hopefully that will be soon.

 

[bluewuta]

have you tried any other forms of food?

 

[Slug]

have you tried any other forms of food?

Yes, mealworms. I have also gotten some fruit flies since it was recommended to get it's attention, but I am worried that if they don't get eaten, I will have a bunch of fruit flies loose in the house...

 

[Carlton]

A suggestion about feeding:

As your cham is still feeling the effects of a lot of stress from moving into a new space, it is less likely to feel secure enough to eat in front of you.

Try a compromise between free ranging the feeders and using a cup. Get a light colored plastic storage box with higher sides and wedge it into the bottom of your cage directly under your plants. Put in a pinch of fresh gutload and a few feeders. Your cham can watch and climb close without leaving the cover of the foliage. The feeders can roam around more than in a cup and the cham can watch the activity, climb down to the rim of the box, and shoot them a bit more naturally from above. Some chams get confused or worried about hitting the tips of their tongues on container edges and I suppose a wc one might. Also, don't put too many feeders in at once. Too much motion is confusing making it harder for a preoccupied cham to select and focus on one.

I also think you have a wc cham, so it is safest to treat it that way. ALL chams can carry parasites as they pick them up from their insect feeders. Take a fresh fecal to a vet (any vet can check for the most common intestinal types) and have it tested. You don't necessarily have to get rid of every single one and it's not really possible anyway. What you do want is to know what types it has and the degree of infection. A very high count should be treated to reduce stress and help the cham stabilize.

 

[Slug]

A suggestion about feeding:

As your cham is still feeling the effects of a lot of stress from moving into a new space, it is less likely to feel secure enough to eat in front of you.

Try a compromise between free ranging the feeders and using a cup. Get a light colored plastic storage box with higher sides and wedge it into the bottom of your cage directly under your plants. Put in a pinch of fresh gutload and a few feeders. Your cham can watch and climb close without leaving the cover of the foliage. The feeders can roam around more than in a cup and the cham can watch the activity, climb down to the rim of the box, and shoot them a bit more naturally from above. Some chams get confused or worried about hitting the tips of their tongues on container edges and I suppose a wc one might. Also, don't put too many feeders in at once. Too much motion is confusing making it harder for a preoccupied cham to select and focus on one.

I also think you have a wc cham, so it is safest to treat it that way. ALL chams can carry parasites as they pick them up from their insect feeders. Take a fresh fecal to a vet (any vet can check for the most common intestinal types) and have it tested. You don't necessarily have to get rid of every single one and it's not really possible anyway. What you do want is to know what types it has and the degree of infection. A very high count should be treated to reduce stress and help the cham stabilize.

I will give this a shot! It is a WC for sure, it was verified the other day. I plan on getting a fecal done possibly tomorrow or this weekend. According to Big Apple Pet Supply, they do all the deworming in house before sale. They seem to be on the up and up, but I will still get it checked to be on the safe side.

 

[Carlton]

Yes, mealworms. I have also gotten some fruit flies since it was recommended to get it's attention, but I am worried that if they don't get eaten, I will have a bunch of fruit flies loose in the house...

Mealworms may not attract the cham's attention and they aren't great quality feeders anyway. Superworms, silkworms, tomato hornworms (don't take them off a tomato plant...raise them yourself). You could also try attracting night flying moths to a porch light or raise some bluebottle flies as many chams are very interested in flying insects. Don't use any if you or the neighbors spray pesticides, and don't use brightly colored or hairy insects. They tend to be noxious or even toxic.

 

[Slug]

Mealworms may not attract the cham's attention and they aren't great quality feeders anyway. Superworms, silkworms, tomato hornworms (don't take them off a tomato plant...raise them yourself). You could also try attracting night flying moths to a porch light or raise some bluebottle flies as many chams are very interested in flying insects. Don't use any if you or the neighbors spray pesticides, and don't use brightly colored or hairy insects. They tend to be noxious or even toxic.

What are bluebottle flies??? I have never heard of them.

My girlfriend and I tend to shy away from pesticides, and the only thing we spray anywhere around our house is a poison ivy killer at the back of our house. We are pretty close to hippies without the weed. We are even working our way towards being vegetarians.

 

[Hoj]

First off CONGRATS!!! on the new cham, as for the eating part, variety is key. Get as many different types of feeders possible. Also be sure she is hydrated well, as often appetite reduces when they are dehyrated. A real long misting or shower could help.

 

[Slug]

So I see people using the word shower, and I have heard of people using their actual bathroom shower. Is this what you mean, or just misting for a long time?

 

[Hoj]

Showering uses the real shower.
What you do is take a large plant or tree and place it in the shower, then you turn the shower on warm but not too warm, just above luke warm, and bounce the water off the shower wall so as to create a light sprinkle or mist onto the plant. Not heavy drop. ( i find it helpfull to stick a fake plant with a suction cup to the shower wall and bounce the water off that.) Then place your cham in the tree and maintain a GOOD close eye on them. About 20-30 min is great. Make sure your cham is not getting drenched or bombarded with water as they could aspirate some and cause problems.

 

[Slug]

Since I am off at 10:00 am tomorrow, I am going to be dedicating a huge chunk of my day to tending to cham needs. This will include showering as you said, and hopefully seeing it eat.

I took the suggestions from earlier and there is currently a large food container (it is clear, unfortunately, it is all I have at the time, but I will change it out tomorrow with something else). I put a few crickets in it (about 8, accidentally dumping several out on the floor of the cage in the process, then rounding as many up as I could...I was nervous and twitched while setting it down.) I stuck a piece of the bamboo into the tub, in hopes that the cham would climb down and pick them off, but what I think will probably happen is the crickets will climb up.

I also took the crickets that I rounded up and put them in the feeder cup I mentioned before. So currently, there are 2 "feeding stations" each with a few crickets and a slice of an orange for them to eat while they await their (hopefully) certain death at the lethal tongue of my unnamed, sexless, ageless Senegal Chameleon. (A little positive thinking can't hurt)