I don’t know why she’s not happy…

[Beman]

Yes I bought the t5 HO 5.0 uvb linear light with new fixture.

Perfect so you will want a 8-9 inch distance between where the fixture is above the cage and her highest branches in the cage.

Let us know how it goes at the vet. I would expect them to do an xray to determine severity of MBD along with to see if she is holding eggs. Also I would expect them to send home a liquid calcium.

 

[Maarsbars]

Perfect so you will want a 8-9 inch distance between where the fixture is above the cage and her highest branches in the cage.

Let us know how it goes at the vet. I would expect them to do an xray to determine severity of MBD along with to see if she is holding eggs. Also I would expect them to send home a liquid calcium.

I just came back from the vet hospital and they did none of this. They checked and said she does not have MBD at all.

They had her laying in a heater for a bit. They said she was backed up and needed to poop so they gave oral fluids and meds. And she said Emi was dehydrated. They told us to do poop samples all week and have it checked.

I want to trust the vet but I do not feel any better.

BUT Emi is waaaaaaay better than yesterday. She’s actually moving around now and sitting up higher in branches.

 

[Beman]

Well they are very incorrect and do not have knowledge of chameleons. You can tell by her miss shaped limbs that she has MBD. They should not bend or bow they should be perfectly straight down to each joint. Look for another vet but one that actually has experience with Chameleons or at least reptiles. Getting her on liquid calcium would be important to help her stop the MBD progression. In the mean time we can assist with making sure you have the correct supplements for her and you already ordered the correct lighting.

So lets get you going with husbandry corrections. Copy and paste this into your reply. Fill out everything that you know. If you do not know then its ok to say that as well.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[kinyonga]

Can you post a few more photos of her so we can see the arms better. Im sure she has MBD too.
I’m extremely disappointed in their diagnosis since they all did their veterinary studies at the OVC…and they should have had quite a bit of experience with chameleons.

How old is she? Has she been pooping? When was the last poop? What colour are the urates?

 

[Maarsbars]

Well they are very incorrect and do not have knowledge of chameleons. You can tell by her miss shaped limbs that she has MBD. They should not bend or bow they should be perfectly straight down to each joint. Look for another vet but one that actually has experience with Chameleons or at least reptiles. Getting her on liquid calcium would be important to help her stop the MBD progression. In the mean time we can assist with making sure you have the correct supplements for her and you already ordered the correct lighting.

So lets get you going with husbandry corrections. Copy and paste this into your reply. Fill out everything that you know. If you do not know then its ok to say that as well.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?

I’ve been told it’s a panther cham, female, between 3-4 yrs old, I’ve had for a lil over a week. Previous owner had her since a baby. I do not know anything about the previous owners schedule, feeding habits and what not. Everything I am doing is from what I’m reading/being advised on.

• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?

Not very often. Unless we are cleaning her cage.

• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?

We feed her crickets. Crickets are given ‘cricket care’ for gut load (image attached), and dusted with calcium before being fed to Emi. We give her at least 6-7 crickets a day.

• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?

We dust crickets each time we feed her with a product called ‘repti calcium’ image attached.

• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?

Right now we are misting the cage 4-5x a day. We must until we see droplets falling from plants/branches. There’s also a small bowl of water. I’ve seen her drink once while watching her.

• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?

Poop is dark in colour and semi solid. Not sure about being tested.

• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Unfortunately I do not have any history about it.



Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?

Screen cage, I don’t have dimensions on me right now.

• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?

Red light (no longer using) and getting my T5 HO 5.0 uvb light today.

Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
I don’t know. The room she is in gets very warm.

• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?

I don’t know.

• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?

Fake plants

• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?

It’s located upstairs in a front room. No direct air vents near by and very low traffic area. My brother has a work desk next to her where he works while she just chills in her cage.

• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Toronto Ontario Canada



Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
From what I’ve been told, she has MBD. I just want to make sure she’s happy.

 

[Beman]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?

I’ve been told it’s a panther cham, female, between 3-4 yrs old, I’ve had for a lil over a week. Previous owner had her since a baby. I do not know anything about the previous owners schedule, feeding habits and what not. Everything I am doing is from what I’m reading/being advised on.

• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?

Not very often. Unless we are cleaning her cage.

• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?

We feed her crickets. Crickets are given ‘cricket care’ for gut load (image attached), and dusted with calcium before being fed to Emi. We give her at least 6-7 crickets a day.

• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?

We dust crickets each time we feed her with a product called ‘repti calcium’ image attached.

• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?

Right now we are misting the cage 4-5x a day. We must until we see droplets falling from plants/branches. There’s also a small bowl of water. I’ve seen her drink once while watching her.

• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?

Poop is dark in colour and semi solid. Not sure about being tested.

• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Unfortunately I do not have any history about it.



Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?

Screen cage, I don’t have dimensions on me right now.

• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?

Red light (no longer using) and getting my T5 HO 5.0 uvb light today.

Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
I don’t know. The room she is in gets very warm.

• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?

I don’t know.

• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?

Fake plants

• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?

It’s located upstairs in a front room. No direct air vents near by and very low traffic area. My brother has a work desk next to her where he works while she just chills in her cage.

• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Toronto Ontario Canada



Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
From what I’ve been told, she has MBD. I just want to make sure she’s happy.

I will be back home later this evening and can go through this. Unless @MissSkittles is online today before me and has time to do it.

 

[MikeyBen]

It’s in Mississauga, Britannia Animal Hospital.

I've been to this hospital. I heard Petsmart uses them.

 

[MissSkittles]

I will be back home later this evening and can go through this. Unless @MissSkittles is online today before me and has time to do it.

I’m here and will go thru everything. Just give me a bit of time.

 

[Maarsbars]

I just want to say thank you all very much, I’m really happy I found this forum and you guys!

 

[MissSkittles]

I tend to talk a lot, so will be breaking this into two sections.

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?

I’ve been told it’s a panther cham, female, between 3-4 yrs old, I’ve had for a lil over a week. Previous owner had her since a baby. I do not know anything about the previous owners schedule, feeding habits and what not. Everything I am doing is from what I’m reading/being advised on. Ok. Unfortunately, there’s a huge amount of misinformation out there about chameleons and we find that even some vets are lacking current/correct knowledge.

• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?

Not very often. Unless we are cleaning her cage. It’s always good to work on building trust. This is a great blog on how to do that. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/building-trust-with-your-chameleon.2396/

• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?

We feed her crickets. Crickets are one of several good staple feeders. You’ll want to add a few more for variety. Roaches, silkworms, bsfl are all great additions. We can’t forget about occasional treats too of hornworms, wax worms and superworms. Crickets are given ‘cricket care’ for gut load (image attached), Most of the bug food you’ll find at Petco and similar stores aren’t great for nutrition. It’s much better to give fresh produce and you could use a quality bug food preparation such as Repashy Bug Burger, cricket crack, Mazuri, etc. I’ve attached a couple of graphics to help guide you. Well fed and healthy bugs will be much more nutritious for your chameleon. and dusted with calcium before being fed to Emi. We give her at least 6-7 crickets a day. That is a lot! I feed my adult chameleons and especially my girls 3-4 feeders, 3 days a week plus occasional treats. Overfeeding can not only lead to obesity, but may also have a negative effect on her egg production.

• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?

We dust crickets each time we feed her with a product called ‘repti calcium’ image attached. Getting supplements correct is essential. Do you know if this is what she was getting before? I ask because it contains vitamin D3, which can build up to toxic levels if given too much. The effects can be just as bad as no vitamin D3 and can be serious. There are several ways to supplement. Since you already have the calcium with D3, I’ll suggest the standard regimen. You want to lightly dust at every feeding with a phosphorus free calcium without D3 except for one feeding every week. That weekly feeding is when you’ll alternate between using the calcium with D3 and a good multivitamin. I suggest ReptiVite (make sure it is the one without D3).
Regardless of what the vet has said, she does appear to have mbd. Usually a special calcium/supplement regimen is prescribed. Since your vet didn’t do this, I can only tell you to follow one of the standard regimens. While nothing can/will undo any effects your pretty little lady already has, it will halt further progression. If you can, taking her outside for some fresh air and sunshine for a little bit will also help. Never leave your chameleon unattended outside (unless in a cage) and always provide some shade. I usually just hold my animals when I take them out and I can only tolerate the heat for 15-20 minutes, which is reasonable to me.

• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?

Right now we are misting the cage 4-5x a day. We must until we see droplets falling from plants/branches. There’s also a small bowl of water. I’ve seen her drink once while watching her. It’s best to mist for at least 2 minutes right before lights go on and off. You can give a mist for a minute or so mid day or if you prefer, run a dripper for 15-20 minutes. It’s not at all uncommon to never or rarely see your chameleon drink. The water bowl can and should be removed. Chameleons rarely recognize standing water for drinking, instead lapping drops off leaves or catching drips.

• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?

Poop is dark in colour and semi solid. Not sure about being tested. Since you already went to the vet, they should have no problem with you dropping off a fresh fecal for testing without an additional visit.

• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Unfortunately I do not have any history about it.
More to come….

 

[MissSkittles]

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?

Screen cage, I don’t have dimensions on me right now. No need to measure. I can tell it’s too small for her. The standard minimum is a 2x2x4’ enclosure or equivalent. If you can go bigger, they do appreciate and use the extra room.

• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?

Red light (no longer using) and getting my T5 HO 5.0 uvb light today. @Beman has already guided you on this. I don’t recall (& too lazy to look back ) if she advised using a 12 hour on/off schedule, but that is ideal. Most of us use timers. No lights at night.

Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
I don’t know. The room she is in gets very warm. Very important to monitor temps. Being a reptile, your chameleon is cold blooded and needs certain levels of heat in order for her body to digest her food and just function properly. I suggest a digital thermometer with a probe end. A thermometer gun is helpful also, but can only measure surface temps. You want a nice gradient of temps, with a high of around 80 at her basking area. No heat is needed at night unless your temps drop below 55-60.

• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?

I don’t know. This is also important to monitor. Again, a digital hygrometer with a probe end usually works well. If it’s too high during the day, it increases the risk for respiratory infection. Humidity also affects shedding and hydration. Ideal daytime range is between 50-70% for a panther.
At night if you are able to achieve a temperature drop below at least 68, you can simulate the natural hydration cycle of fog they get in the wild. Use a cool mist humidifier/fogger for a few hours in the wee hours of the AM and boost your humidity as high as it can go.

• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?

Fake plant Clean, safe and live plants are always best for aesthetics, holding humidity, more enriching, etc. The humble pothos is one of the staple plants for most of us. I like to have a taller center plant such as a weeping fig (benjamina ficus) or umbrella plant (schefflera) with the pothos at the perimeter. This is a good guide for plants. https://chameleonacademy.com/plants/
Additionally, you want to have lots of branches and vines to create lots of little chameleon roads. Btw, the black Exo Terra vine you have is one that is known to shed tiny particles that always seem to make their way into sensitive little cham eyes. I like using natural branches that I’ve scavenged, given a little scrub with dish soap, blasted with the hose and dried in the sun. Avoid pine, eucalyptus and other sappy or smelly woods.
There really isn’t any section for it, but her is as good as any and it’s about the floor enclosure. I understand why you have the balls, but a bare floor is best. You’ll have to come up with a way to manage drainage and that’s one of those things that we all have our own way. You will be wanting to have a lay bin, but not going to address that here/now.

• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?

It’s located upstairs in a front room. No direct air vents near by and very low traffic area. My brother has a work desk next to her where he works while she just chills in her cage.
Adding some live plants will help block off the view and make her feel more secure. You can attach the fake plants to that side of the enclosure on the outside for more privacy. When/if she lays eggs, privacy will be essential and you’ll need to cover all visible areas. Also, height = safety for chams.

• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Toronto Ontario Canada



Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
From what I’ve been told, she has MBD. I just want to make sure she’s happy. Yes, she does look to have mbd. Her little limbs are bent which basically are one of the hallmark signs of the disease as fragile little bones fracture or warp. Whether it is a previous and treated issue or a current and ongoing one, the vet definitely should have picked up on it. I don’t want to slam your vet nor make excuses for him/her. I can tell you that I’ve had some interesting experiences with vets and even the ones who are experienced and knowledgeable about chameleons are still not 100%. I’m not a vet and haven’t experienced more than mild mbd in my animals, so @kinyonga is better to advise you on this. I do know that one of the biggest concerns with a female with mbd is her egg production and laying. We don’t know where your girl is in her cycle, so it may or may not be a problem. Going to end this here for now. Don’t hesitate to ask any questions you may have.

 

[Beman]

My partner in crime @MissSkittles gave you awesome feedback already. The only thing I would add....

Another option for supplementation is to drop the calcium with D3. Especially since you do not know when the previous owner bought this one.
Get the calcium without D3 version which is used at all feedings.
Except you would get repashy calcium plus LOD version which is a multivitamin with D3 and A, this would be used only 2 times a month say the 1st and the 15th

 

[kinyonga]

Live Reptiles online Store in USA & Europe. exotic pet reptiles for sale, Lizards, tortoises, snakes, Iguanas, turtles, Isopods etc.
https://floridareptiles.us/

You’re not answering the person‘s post…you are breaking the rules

(for example…
Advertising your business for commercial sales or services is strictly prohibited. If you are interested in advertising on this site please see our advertising page….Threads should be created in the appropriate forum category….Advertising, spamming, flooding and trolling are not allowed. This includes using the forum email and private message (PM) systems to spam other members.)

 

[sketchtone]

It’s in Mississauga, Britannia Animal Hospital.

Two good sources I'd recommend for setups is Neptune the Chameleon and Chameleon Academy is also very helpful. I know that Neptune the Chameleon has a lot of videos on YouTube on how to supplement and gutload correctly. I hope Emi is happy and doing well!

 

[kinyonga]

First of all, I’m not a vet and can only give you my best opinion from experience and knowledge I’ve picked up on the way.

Concerning MBD…its caused by an imbalance of nutrients in the chameleon’s system….to correct it, you have to correct the imbalance and then provide proper husbandry from then on to keep it from happening again.

To correct the imbalance, you need to ensure that the chameleon is getting the proper supplements and UVB lighting and then provide liquid calcium you can get from a vet until the bones, muscles, etc are back to normal. The supplementing has already been explained to you as well as the lighting. Since you have been giving too much D3, it would be best to give your chameleon the opportunity to produce its D3 from exposure to the UVB light and to direct sunshine and go easy on the D3 supplements for a bit.

D3 from supplements can build up in the system and result in MBD symptoms in the chameleon…D3 produced from exposure to the UVB light and from exposure to direct sunlight should not build up in the system as long as the chameleon can move in and out of the light.

Without D3, calcium cannot be absorbed from the chameleon’s system and put into the bones and muscles and other systems where it’s needed in the chameleon….so the bones curve, muscles in the chameleon including the tongue, heart, etc become less able to function.

Vitamin A which comes in a prEformed and a prOformed form, also plays a part and needs to be in balance with the vitamin D3. PrEformed vitamin A is fat soluble and can build up in the chameleon’s system and lead to health issues. It comes from animal sources (retinol). PrOformed vitamin A comes from carotenoids found in greens, veggies, etc. and the body converts it as needed. However, it’s thought that many/all chameleons can not convert it either at all or inefficiently…so we give the prEformed source to them only twice a month lightly hoping that it is enough.
As you can figure, the need for good nutritional insects being fed to the chameleon is important…so it’s important to feed/gut load the insects well for the health of the chameleon.

Hope this helps.

One more thing that should help…
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/meet-jack-the-worse-case-of-mbd-ive-ever-seen.42097/

 

[kinyonga]

Also…still wondering what colour the rates are?