Hunger Strike reposted

[Speelman]

Hey I thought I would repost this on the general discussion board because I am beginning to become more worried. Today he ate one roach and did not seem interested in any others, still excitedly ate his hornworms, and the chin spot seems darker today. All other behavior seems completely normal.

Hello !

I just wanted to get recommendations on what the best way to go about this is. I recently decided I wanted to try and stop feeding crickets for multiple different reasons, and try and switch to dubias and my boy is not having it. Before he would normally eat 8-10 crickets, 1-2 dubias, and 1-2 hornworms a day, with a hand fed wax worm as a treat sometimes. So far with no crickets its been 1-2 MAYBE 3 roaches every day and he just acts scared of the rest of them. I know that they cannot really injure the chams so I have just been leaving 3-4 in his cage throughout the day and I can never tell if he is actually eating them or they just are hiding/dying somewhere. He has still absolutely devoured as many hornworms I will give him and seems extremely excited.

Since the hunger strike has been happening I have also noticed some mouth/chin discoloration that I had not noticed before, I also recently purchased an automatic mister on the same day that I bought the dubias so I do not know if all of this could somehow be related. I haven't noticed any major changes in personality or actions he seems to be normal, just not enjoying his food.

I know these are terrible pictures but he was not having it and I decided to just leave him be. On his left side there is a bruise like spot of darker skin that runs a long the jawline and the crest on his chin, and then on his left side there is a line/dots in a line that runs with his jawline.

Thank you in advance for any help

• Your Chameleon- The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
  • I think he is around 5 months old, I have had him about a month.
• Handling- How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • I have only handled at the reptile expo and moving him into this new enclosure.
• Feeding- What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
  • This is the issue, I try to feed him as early as I can in the morning, feeders are gutloaded with lugardia cricket feeder, some vegetables, and one of those little cricket hydration square things.
• Supplements- What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
  • zoo med repticalcium without d3 every day, with d3 maybe once a week.
• Watering- What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • I used to hand mist but just recently purchased a monsoon automatic mister, every hour for 30 seconds, I have not visually seen him drink since I purchased but I have also been not there for more of the mistings which was the point of me getting the automatic mister.
• Fecal Description- Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • droppings are looking good to my knowledge ! Poop is solid and brown/darker brown with eurate being mostly dry and light white. He has never been tested for parasites.
• History- Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
  • I purchased him at a reptile expo and he came with a much younger female chameleon, both housed in a very small very poor glass enclosure. I quickly moved both of them into this new screened enclosure but had both of them together for a few days before I could find somewhere to rehome the girl. Obviously they did not get along the best and I do not know if at all or how long they were housed together before. I was mistakenly assured that they would be fine together and fine in the enclosure and feel very bad about stressing them out in such poor conditions for the time I did. Since the separation he seems much less stressed then when I originally got him.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type- Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • Large reptibreeze full screen enclosure (18",18",36") I have one side facing most of my room/bed/desk covered with blanket for humidity and just so he cant see me while im doing homework/being lazy, and another 1.5 sides sort of covered in press and seal (seran rap?) to try and trap some humidity in. I also have a blackout curtain in case I am up with lights on after his bed time.
• Lighting- What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • I have a 22" reptisun 10.0 UVB in a biomed cover and a 75 watt heat flood in a deep dome light for basking from scales and tales that are both on from 9am to 9pm
• Temperature- What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
  • I have one of the reptile control center things they sell at scales and tales that has 6 plugs, two heat sensors, and a humidity sensor. basking spot during the day is ambient 80-85 F and cage floor is between 65-70 normally. Just this week it started getting warm and our ac has been funky so they have shifted a little day to day but almost always within those ranges. I have a secondary ceramic heat bulb I have been turning on for just a few minutes, pointed mid level of the cage, if I notice much lower temperatures during the day. Night time temperatures have been 65-70 at the top and usually 50-60 at the bottom. watching today after switching all fake to live plants the bottom is 63 which is the highest I have seen so far. I have seen 51-53 sometimes at the bottom but never under 50.
• Humidity- What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
  • humidity during the day is 35-45% maintained solely through live plants and misting, at night after temperatures have dropped I run a fogger through the night and it normally gets to 55%ish, I am honestly lost to get it any higher.
• Plants- Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • I have a large ficus tree, larger dracea tree of some sort, small ficus shrub, and one stalk of bamboo.
• Placement- Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • It is in the corner of my bedroom in the basement, maybe 5 feet away from a ceiling vent that may or may not work. It is my bedroom and I am in college so I and roommates have been in and out, but I have been trying to limit interaction and he has been getting left a lone for as much as I can during the day. The cage is on a roughly foot and a half tall desk off of the floor.
• Location- Where are you geographically located?
  • I am in northern colorful Colorado, USA

for reference the entire cage, with him in the midst of running away because I pointed my phone at him.

 

[Beman]

If you can give me a bit I can go through your husbandry...

He is a little young to be taking him off feeders he knows completely. It can take some time to transition to other feeders we do this by mixing them in with the feeders they know. When did you take him off crickets?

 

[Beman]

I know these are terrible pictures but he was not having it and I decided to just leave him be. On his left side there is a bruise like spot of darker skin that runs a long the jawline and the crest on his chin, and then on his left side there is a line/dots in a line that runs with his jawline.

Hey I thought I would repost this on the general discussion board because I am beginning to become more worried. Today he ate one roach and did not seem interested in any others, still excitedly ate his hornworms, and the chin spot seems darker today. All other behavior seems completely normal.

Hello !

I just wanted to get recommendations on what the best way to go about this is. I recently decided I wanted to try and stop feeding crickets for multiple different reasons, and try and switch to dubias and my boy is not having it. Before he would normally eat 8-10 crickets, 1-2 dubias, and 1-2 hornworms a day, with a hand fed wax worm as a treat sometimes. So far with no crickets its been 1-2 MAYBE 3 roaches every day and he just acts scared of the rest of them. I know that they cannot really injure the chams so I have just been leaving 3-4 in his cage throughout the day and I can never tell if he is actually eating them or they just are hiding/dying somewhere. He has still absolutely devoured as many hornworms I will give him and seems extremely excited.

Since the hunger strike has been happening I have also noticed some mouth/chin discoloration that I had not noticed before, I also recently purchased an automatic mister on the same day that I bought the dubias so I do not know if all of this could somehow be related. I haven't noticed any major changes in personality or actions he seems to be normal, just not enjoying his food.

Let me start with this... So it could very well be a bruise. He may have fallen. I would add more branches in there for him to move around on the basking level and farther down.

There does seem to be a small wound on the front of the bottom jaw. Same thing could have happened from a fall. You could put plain neosporin on that without any pain meds in it. Tiny bit with a qtip. Not a ton that he can then get everywhere or ingest though. Keep an eye on it for swelling. If it does then a vet is needed.

He is a little young to be taking him off feeders he knows completely. It can take some time to transition to other feeders we do this by mixing them in with the feeders they know. When did you take him off crickets?

I will start your husbandry form but this will take me a bit.

 

[Beman]

Ok see my feedback and questions in Bold. Let me know what questions you have as well. This will be a ton of info so just take it piece by piece.

• Your Chameleon- The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
  • I think he is around 5 months old, I have had him about a month. Size looks to be of a 5-6 month old male.
• Handling- How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • I have only handled at the reptile expo and moving him into this new enclosure.
• Feeding- What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
  • This is the issue, I try to feed him as early as I can in the morning, feeders are gutloaded with lugardia cricket feeder, some vegetables, and one of those little cricket hydration square things. I am not familiar with the cricket feeder... Is this food or what you keep them in? See image for feeders and gutloading below. If your feeding fresh veg you do not need the sponge for water.
• Supplements- What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
  • zoo med repticalcium without d3 every day, with d3 maybe once a week. Ok so this you will want to change up. You need a multivitamin. I recommend repashy calcium plus LoD version or reptivite. D3 should only be given 2 times a month so every other week. Calcium without D3 at all other feedings. Let me know which multi you get and I can give you specifics for supplementation with what you already have.
• Watering- What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • I used to hand mist but just recently purchased a monsoon automatic mister, every hour for 30 seconds, I have not visually seen him drink since I purchased but I have also been not there for more of the mistings which was the point of me getting the automatic mister. You want to space these out more. With the monsoon do every 6 hours and then up it to the longest misting length. I believe it is 1 or 2 minutes for that. You do not want to be adding moisture constantly during the day. You can always add a dripper with a plastic solo cup and some tiny pin holes in the bottom then add ice cubes and set it on the top of your cage. It will slowly drip that way.
• Fecal Description- Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • droppings are looking good to my knowledge ! Poop is solid and brown/darker brown with eurate being mostly dry and light white. He has never been tested for parasites. I highly recommend getting a fecal test done for parasites to be sure he does not have anything.
• History- Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
  • I purchased him at a reptile expo and he came with a much younger female chameleon, both housed in a very small very poor glass enclosure. I quickly moved both of them into this new screened enclosure but had both of them together for a few days before I could find somewhere to rehome the girl. Obviously they did not get along the best and I do not know if at all or how long they were housed together before. I was mistakenly assured that they would be fine together and fine in the enclosure and feel very bad about stressing them out in such poor conditions for the time I did. Since the separation he seems much less stressed then when I originally got him. Well I am glad you separated them quickly. You should not feel bad. The person that thought it was acceptable to tell you it was ok should feel bad. They never should have sold them to you that way and told you that they could be kept together.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type- Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • Large reptibreeze full screen enclosure (18",18",36") I have one side facing most of my room/bed/desk covered with blanket for humidity and just so he cant see me while im doing homework/being lazy, and another 1.5 sides sort of covered in press and seal (seran rap?) to try and trap some humidity in. I also have a blackout curtain in case I am up with lights on after his bed time. Ok so good news is your on the right track here. Bad news is you need to upgrade the cage size to a 2x2x4ft enclosure. Look into corrugated plastic they sell it at craft stores. This you can put on the outside of the cage then it is solid and will help with humidity and keeping light out at night. Hook to outside of cage with the command strips for posters. Works really well. You can do the back and both sides with this.
• Lighting- What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • I have a 22" reptisun 10.0 UVB in a biomed cover and a 75 watt heat flood in a deep dome light for basking from scales and tales that are both on from 9am to 9pm So with this 10.0 T5HO bulb you need 11-12 inches to the closest branches to get him in the right UVI. Closer and he could be in over exposure levels. Dropping back to a 5.0 bulb you would want 8-9 inches to the closest branches for the right UVI level.
• Temperature- What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
  • I have one of the reptile control center things they sell at scales and tales that has 6 plugs, two heat sensors, and a humidity sensor. basking spot during the day is ambient 80-85 F and cage floor is between 65-70 normally. Just this week it started getting warm and our ac has been funky so they have shifted a little day to day but almost always within those ranges. I have a secondary ceramic heat bulb I have been turning on for just a few minutes, pointed mid level of the cage, if I notice much lower temperatures during the day. Night time temperatures have been 65-70 at the top and usually 50-60 at the bottom. watching today after switching all fake to live plants the bottom is 63 which is the highest I have seen so far. I have seen 51-53 sometimes at the bottom but never under 50. So no ceramic secondary heat at all. No night time heat at all unless your down below 50. they need the temp drop. Your temps otherwise are good.
• Humidity- What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
  • humidity during the day is 35-45% maintained solely through live plants and misting, at night after temperatures have dropped I run a fogger through the night and it normally gets to 55%ish, I am honestly lost to get it any higher. These daytime levels are good. The live plants will help a lot. Now as far as night time. Your still doing well. We want higher humidity at night but only when temps are below 67. Adding solid back and two sides will help retain humidity. But be sure to double check basking temp because it will raise that as well.
• Plants- Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • I have a large ficus tree, larger dracea tree of some sort, small ficus shrub, and one stalk of bamboo. Great. I would pull the bamboo out though. The rest is wonderful.
• Placement- Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • It is in the corner of my bedroom in the basement, maybe 5 feet away from a ceiling vent that may or may not work. It is my bedroom and I am in college so I and roommates have been in and out, but I have been trying to limit interaction and he has been getting left a lone for as much as I can during the day. The cage is on a roughly foot and a half tall desk off of the floor. All of this is good. Overhead fan is not an issue as long as it is on low and not drastically changing the daytime temps if it is cool.
• Location- Where are you geographically located?
  • I am in northern colorful Colorado, USA

Now per the eating issues how long has he been on strike since you took him off crickets?

 

[Speelman]

Ok see my feedback and questions in Bold. Let me know what questions you have as well. This will be a ton of info so just take it piece by piece.

• Your Chameleon- The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
  • I think he is around 5 months old, I have had him about a month. Size looks to be of a 5-6 month old male.
• Handling- How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • I have only handled at the reptile expo and moving him into this new enclosure.
• Feeding- What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
  • This is the issue, I try to feed him as early as I can in the morning, feeders are gutloaded with lugardia cricket feeder, some vegetables, and one of those little cricket hydration square things. I am not familiar with the cricket feeder... Is this food or what you keep them in? See image for feeders and gutloading below. If your feeding fresh veg you do not need the sponge for water.
• Supplements- What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
  • zoo med repticalcium without d3 every day, with d3 maybe once a week. Ok so this you will want to change up. You need a multivitamin. I recommend repashy calcium plus LoD version or reptivite. D3 should only be given 2 times a month so every other week. Calcium without D3 at all other feedings. Let me know which multi you get and I can give you specifics for supplementation with what you already have.
• Watering- What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • I used to hand mist but just recently purchased a monsoon automatic mister, every hour for 30 seconds, I have not visually seen him drink since I purchased but I have also been not there for more of the mistings which was the point of me getting the automatic mister. You want to space these out more. With the monsoon do every 6 hours and then up it to the longest misting length. I believe it is 1 or 2 minutes for that. You do not want to be adding moisture constantly during the day. You can always add a dripper with a plastic solo cup and some tiny pin holes in the bottom then add ice cubes and set it on the top of your cage. It will slowly drip that way.
• Fecal Description- Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • droppings are looking good to my knowledge ! Poop is solid and brown/darker brown with eurate being mostly dry and light white. He has never been tested for parasites. I highly recommend getting a fecal test done for parasites to be sure he does not have anything.
• History- Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
  • I purchased him at a reptile expo and he came with a much younger female chameleon, both housed in a very small very poor glass enclosure. I quickly moved both of them into this new screened enclosure but had both of them together for a few days before I could find somewhere to rehome the girl. Obviously they did not get along the best and I do not know if at all or how long they were housed together before. I was mistakenly assured that they would be fine together and fine in the enclosure and feel very bad about stressing them out in such poor conditions for the time I did. Since the separation he seems much less stressed then when I originally got him. Well I am glad you separated them quickly. You should not feel bad. The person that thought it was acceptable to tell you it was ok should feel bad. They never should have sold them to you that way and told you that they could be kept together.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type- Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • Large reptibreeze full screen enclosure (18",18",36") I have one side facing most of my room/bed/desk covered with blanket for humidity and just so he cant see me while im doing homework/being lazy, and another 1.5 sides sort of covered in press and seal (seran rap?) to try and trap some humidity in. I also have a blackout curtain in case I am up with lights on after his bed time. Ok so good news is your on the right track here. Bad news is you need to upgrade the cage size to a 2x2x4ft enclosure. Look into corrugated plastic they sell it at craft stores. This you can put on the outside of the cage then it is solid and will help with humidity and keeping light out at night. Hook to outside of cage with the command strips for posters. Works really well. You can do the back and both sides with this.
• Lighting- What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • I have a 22" reptisun 10.0 UVB in a biomed cover and a 75 watt heat flood in a deep dome light for basking from scales and tales that are both on from 9am to 9pm So with this 10.0 T5HO bulb you need 11-12 inches to the closest branches to get him in the right UVI. Closer and he could be in over exposure levels. Dropping back to a 5.0 bulb you would want 8-9 inches to the closest branches for the right UVI level.
• Temperature- What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
  • I have one of the reptile control center things they sell at scales and tales that has 6 plugs, two heat sensors, and a humidity sensor. basking spot during the day is ambient 80-85 F and cage floor is between 65-70 normally. Just this week it started getting warm and our ac has been funky so they have shifted a little day to day but almost always within those ranges. I have a secondary ceramic heat bulb I have been turning on for just a few minutes, pointed mid level of the cage, if I notice much lower temperatures during the day. Night time temperatures have been 65-70 at the top and usually 50-60 at the bottom. watching today after switching all fake to live plants the bottom is 63 which is the highest I have seen so far. I have seen 51-53 sometimes at the bottom but never under 50. So no ceramic secondary heat at all. No night time heat at all unless your down below 50. they need the temp drop. Your temps otherwise are good.
• Humidity- What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
  • humidity during the day is 35-45% maintained solely through live plants and misting, at night after temperatures have dropped I run a fogger through the night and it normally gets to 55%ish, I am honestly lost to get it any higher. These daytime levels are good. The live plants will help a lot. Now as far as night time. Your still doing well. We want higher humidity at night but only when temps are below 67. Adding solid back and two sides will help retain humidity. But be sure to double check basking temp because it will raise that as well.
• Plants- Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • I have a large ficus tree, larger dracea tree of some sort, small ficus shrub, and one stalk of bamboo. Great. I would pull the bamboo out though. The rest is wonderful.
• Placement- Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • It is in the corner of my bedroom in the basement, maybe 5 feet away from a ceiling vent that may or may not work. It is my bedroom and I am in college so I and roommates have been in and out, but I have been trying to limit interaction and he has been getting left a lone for as much as I can during the day. The cage is on a roughly foot and a half tall desk off of the floor. All of this is good. Overhead fan is not an issue as long as it is on low and not drastically changing the daytime temps if it is cool.
• Location- Where are you geographically located?
  • I am in northern colorful Colorado, USA

Now per the eating issues how long has he been on strike since you took him off crickets?


View attachment 324075View attachment 324076

First of all I would like to say thank you, you and everybody else have been nothing but incredibly kind and helpful. This forum is amazing.

Thinking about it now I would guess he fell. The bamboo stalk which I am now taking out was tipped over, and it was back in the corner that he enjoyed to sleep/hide in.

As for the feeder stuff I am not surprised you have never heard of it because I absolutely mangled the name.
https://www.lugarti.com/reptile-diet-nutrition/31-premium-cricket-diet.html
This is the stuff I currently have, I don't know if it is great for chameleons specifically but I have heard really good things from other friends with different reptiles.

I was aware of the need to get a larger cage very very soon so I was holding off on moving stuff around so as to not give him multiple enclosure switchups like within the same week. But I am thinking now I may just go and get a 24x24x48 and some crickets for him. The cricket drop was just for my own convenience and if its messing with him now Im sure I can just figure it out later.

 

[Beman]

First of all I would like to say thank you, you and everybody else have been nothing but incredibly kind and helpful. This forum is amazing.

Thinking about it now I would guess he fell. The bamboo stalk which I am now taking out was tipped over, and it was back in the corner that he enjoyed to sleep/hide in.

As for the feeder stuff I am not surprised you have never heard of it because I absolutely mangled the name.
https://www.lugarti.com/reptile-diet-nutrition/31-premium-cricket-diet.html
This is the stuff I currently have, I don't know if it is great for chameleons specifically but I have heard really good things from other friends with different reptiles.

I was aware of the need to get a larger cage very very soon so I was holding off on moving stuff around so as to not give him multiple enclosure switchups like within the same week. But I am thinking now I may just go and get a 24x24x48 and some crickets for him. The cricket drop was just for my own convenience and if its messing with him now Im sure I can just figure it out later.

Well I am happy you have been treated well here. Those of us that are regulars really try to keep the forum an inviting place to seek help.

A small fall like that is still ok. It is when they drop feet we worry about damage.

The food for your feeders is perfectly fine. I just wanted to make sure it was not high in protein. This is because roaches should not be fed a high protein diet.

He is old enough to go ahead and upgrade. I find they do better in larger spaces as they are growing.

Per the crickets I totally get it... They are nasty. But once he hits the 9 month mark you can force him off them. In the mean time mix in other feeders and he will get used to eating them all. Then at 9 months take him off them. Only offer the other feeders. He will either go on strike or immediately go to what he has become used to being food. At that point he has gone through most of his growth and it is not as dangerous to have their intake be lower like when they are younger and growing rapidly.

 

[Speelman]

Well I am happy you have been treated well here. Those of us that are regulars really try to keep the forum an inviting place to seek help.

A small fall like that is still ok. It is when they drop feet we worry about damage.

The food for your feeders is perfectly fine. I just wanted to make sure it was not high in protein. This is because roaches should not be fed a high protein diet.

He is old enough to go ahead and upgrade. I find they do better in larger spaces as they are growing.

Per the crickets I totally get it... They are nasty. But once he hits the 9 month mark you can force him off them. In the mean time mix in other feeders and he will get used to eating them all. Then at 9 months take him off them. Only offer the other feeders. He will either go on strike or immediately go to what he has become used to being food. At that point he has gone through most of his growth and it is not as dangerous to have their intake be lower like when they are younger and growing rapidly.

Yeah I got some crickets yesterday and then happily ate like 3 large ones very quickly and then seemed kinda done with me, and wouldn't eat anymore. Probably because I was all up in his business cleaning the cage, adjusting the mister, and staring at him all day making sure he ate. That was really what I was worried about just with him growing and all. The bigger cage will be here in one week I'm excited to give the boy the room he needs.

Also just opened ended question for anybody that sees this, I did just purchase some dragon strand mounts but will most likely receive those far after I get the larger cage, are there any general tips for getting stuff more vertical without damaging the cage?

 

[Speelman]

Ok I am starting to feel like an idiot. If anybody sees this = would him beginning to shed today also have some effect on his eating habits.

 

[Pickle-cham]

Yeah they can go off food around shedding skin. The bruise may be clawed it to get the peel going.

One thing to point out if you go roach colony for feeding that they on low protein gutload as they store it as uric acid.

 

[Beman]

Yeah I got some crickets yesterday and then happily ate like 3 large ones very quickly and then seemed kinda done with me, and wouldn't eat anymore. Probably because I was all up in his business cleaning the cage, adjusting the mister, and staring at him all day making sure he ate. That was really what I was worried about just with him growing and all. The bigger cage will be here in one week I'm excited to give the boy the room he needs.

Also just opened ended question for anybody that sees this, I did just purchase some dragon strand mounts but will most likely receive those far after I get the larger cage, are there any general tips for getting stuff more vertical without damaging the cage?

Take a read through this it will help with your ledges. https://dragonstrand.com/getting-the-most-from-your-dragon-strand-dragon-ledges/