Humidity

[nick barta]

I would like to pose a question regarding humidity, and get peoples opinions. I often see members posting about struggling with keeping humidity levels high enough. The consensus seems to be that chameleons need high humidity, somewhere above 60%.
I would agree that some species do need higher humidity, such as some in the Montane group, but is there any evidence that Panthers and Veiled chameleons need high humidity? Since these 2 species make up the largest percent of the hobby chameleon group, are we putting out information that leads new keepers to add humidity that is unneccessary? Are we increasing Upper Respiratory Infections by keeping higher humidity?

Do we have humidity readings for the areas that are homes to various species to back up a high humidity percent as a rule of thumb.

It seems strange to me that a Veiled would need high humidity when Yemen is desert, or a Panther in lowland scrub in Madagascar would need high humidity.

CHEERS!

Nick

 

[ChamDE86]

New keepers are under the impression that they have to maintain a 70-80% humidity level at all times, which I don't believe is completely accurate. My humidity level is steady at around 50%, and spikes up to 70-80% after misting. I've also found that the timing of each misting session varies with different members on here. I've heard of sessions lasting from 30 seconds to 5 minutes, which is pretty bizarre. My timer is set for 2 minutes, 4 times a day and have had no dehydration issues at all with my panther chameleon. I originally had it set at 1 minute each session, but discovered his urates had a slightly darker orange tint, so I increased the time to 2 minutes. Now with all that being said, I just want to throw out there that I am by no means a breeder or have kept any cham other than a panther. I would love to hear some more from the long time keepers/breeders on here.

 

[samfish]

Ive wondered the same thing-- I cant imagine Veiled's need high humidity because of the habitats they are from... But I still target 60+% and mist mine twice a day because it is "recommended".

 

[Benjlan]

My cage is pegged at 55%. It goes up to 90+ during mistings. My timer is set for four times a day at 120 seconds.

I think I read somewhere that the yemen cham was considered subtropical and not a dessert animal.

Following

 

[Moxie]

This is a weather forcast for tomorrow in Ambilobe region of Madagascar. In looking at 15 day forecast, humidity 70-80%.

 

[Moxie]

Yikes! Not sure why that showed 3 times! I wasn't trying hammer the point.

 

[Carlton]

I would like to pose a question regarding humidity, and get peoples opinions. I often see members posting about struggling with keeping humidity levels high enough. The consensus seems to be that chameleons need high humidity, somewhere above 60%.
I would agree that some species do need higher humidity, such as some in the Montane group, but is there any evidence that Panthers and Veiled chameleons need high humidity? Since these 2 species make up the largest percent of the hobby chameleon group, are we putting out information that leads new keepers to add humidity that is unneccessary? Are we increasing Upper Respiratory Infections by keeping higher humidity?

Do we have humidity readings for the areas that are homes to various species to back up a high humidity percent as a rule of thumb.

It seems strange to me that a Veiled would need high humidity when Yemen is desert, or a Panther in lowland scrub in Madagascar would need high humidity.

CHEERS!

Nick

I think much of the problem is the way we are trying to define "humidity", and how we produce it in a captive situation. Most human houses are much drier than habitats chams use, even veileds. A comfortable house humidity level could be as dry as 30% and then you have to add in the seasonal effects of heating or summer AC use. The microclimates in shrubby coastal river valleys where most veileds probably live would be more humid than that at least for a significant part of every day. If you've been to panther habitats in Madagascar, even a pretty dry hot day is HUMID compared to a house!

When we mist a cage down, obviously the humidity goes up a lot, but it can also dry out completely faster than we realize. So a cham could end up spending most of its day in a very dry situation. And, as they are not very efficient at conserving body moisture (desert species tend to have respiratory system adaptations that prevent moisture loss...chams don't) they end up losing ground bit by bit, day by day. Dehydration is a cumulative situation. A cham in the wild can retreat to a more humid spot as the day heats up, but a caged cham can't do this as well.

 

[Carlton]

Also, as for RIs, it takes more than simple moisture to create one. It also takes exposure to bacteria, a mold, fungus, or a virus. In a relatively enclosed space like a cage or room, air quality, air exchange, and pathogens all matter. Sure, wild free-ranging chams get sick too, but unless someone happens to find one we have no idea how common they are.

 

[GrimCamel]

Very wise words from Carlton!

 

[Decadancin]

I think much of the problem is the way we are trying to define "humidity", and how we produce it in a captive situation. Most human houses are much drier than habitats chams use, even veileds. A comfortable house humidity level could be as dry as 30% and then you have to add in the seasonal effects of heating or summer AC use. The microclimates in shrubby coastal river valleys where most veileds probably live would be more humid than that at least for a significant part of every day. If you've been to panther habitats in Madagascar, even a pretty dry hot day is HUMID compared to a house!

When we mist a cage down, obviously the humidity goes up a lot, but it can also dry out completely faster than we realize. So a cham could end up spending most of its day in a very dry situation. And, as they are not very efficient at conserving body moisture (desert species tend to have respiratory system adaptations that prevent moisture loss...chams don't) they end up losing ground bit by bit, day by day. Dehydration is a cumulative situation. A cham in the wild can retreat to a more humid spot as the day heats up, but a caged cham can't do this as well.

Also, as for RIs, it takes more than simple moisture to create one. It also takes exposure to bacteria, a mold, fungus, or a virus. In a relatively enclosed space like a cage or room, air quality, air exchange, and pathogens all matter. Sure, wild free-ranging chams get sick too, but unless someone happens to find one we have no idea how common they are.

What she said!!!
Its about creating a good overall environment, not matching conditions.

 

[nick barta]

Carlton hits the nail on the head again! Perhaps the focus to prevent URI's should be better restrictions of molds, bacteria, fungus, and virus sources. With all the water we are raining down in our cages, mold and fungus could definitely be hiding in the structure. One time I had a wood framework under my cages, and when I took them outside to do a cleaning, found black mold. last time I used wood!

CHEERS!

Nick

 

[Carlton]

Carlton hits the nail on the head again! Perhaps the focus to prevent URI's should be better restrictions of molds, bacteria, fungus, and virus sources. With all the water we are raining down in our cages, mold and fungus could definitely be hiding in the structure. One time I had a wood framework under my cages, and when I took them outside to do a cleaning, found black mold. last time I used wood!

CHEERS!

Nick

I also think that our chams end up living a lot closer to their plants' soil (with all the included bacterias etc), within contact range of urate and fecal matter just due to the nature of caging. I don't think anyone is saying a cage has to be sterile, just that accumulations of organic stuff need attention.