How to Cure MBD ?

[kelsxox]

So i just recently found out my poor little girl i just got 2 days ago has MBD.. I brought her to the pet shop i got her from today & they gave me Fluker's Repta Aid , herbivore emergency aid .. she hasn't been eating at all since i brought her into her new big habitat.. shes about 6-7 months old.. & today i caught her a couple times sleeping during the day ! & i know this is a sign of illness, but there are no vets who specialize in reptiles or chameleons anywhere close to where i live! I've been trying all day to find one but no luck.. so please help me and give me some feedback on this stuff before i give it to her ! If you look at my other thread , theirs pictures of her on there.
Please & thank yoou

 

[okiroo]

first i would stop going to the pet shop for now if not forever, you supporting people who arnt careing for their animals. MBD isnt cureable but is treatable. she will eed calcium injections and probally a vet to give a dose. do you have cal with d3, without d3, and multies? i know she hasnt eaten but when she starts dust het crikets good and make shure you gutload good. btw. shes old enough to have eggs so you will need and laying bin. idk anything about the product you mentioned

also mist a little more often. i feel that water is importent esp with sick chams. give her every oppertunity to get better.

 

[kelsxox]

first i would stop going to the pet shop for now if not forever, you supporting people who arnt careing for their animals. MBD isnt cureable but is treatable. she will eed calcium injections and probally a vet to give a dose. do you have cal with d3, without d3, and multies? i know she hasnt eaten but when she starts dust het crikets good and make shure you gutload good. btw. shes old enough to have eggs so you will need and laying bin. idk anything about the product you mentioned

also mist a little more often. i feel that water is importent esp with sick chams. give her every oppertunity to get better.

I've added a picture of the Flukers Repta-Aid if you wanna check it out , or for anyone else who might have some insight on this product! I'm pretty sure it's for stressed and dehydrated reptiles.. Is there any possible way of treating the MBD without injections , or possibly doing it at home? Before it gets worse.. I'll never be supporting any other petstore as such, for feeders thats about itt.. If i woulda realized before purchase the condition she was in & the way they were taking care of her without any knowledge of how to properly take care of chameleons i would have never agreed & supported them.. They had her in a small glass reptarium with only a basking bulb & no dripper, with a waterr dish, & giving her calcium only once or twice a week.. I think the only thing they were doing right was misting her..

I've got exo tera multi vitamins, calcium and calcium with d3. I've read to dust crickets with calcium everyday and cal wit d3 and multi vitamins twice a month?

 

[jannb]

The Repta Aid is good for chameleons that are not eating. It boost them up and hopefully gets them eating again. You can put a little of her calcium dust in the Repta Aid and give it once a day for about three days and then stop and see if she'll start to eat on her on. Are her eyes shut? How far away are her lights? If too close they might me bothering her eyes esecially if they are new light. You can not cure MBD but you can stop it from getting worse. You need to get her some liquid calcium asap and you will need to dose her with that everyday. A vets visit would be best.

 

[kinyonga]

If your chameleon has MBD it needs to be corrected and then you need to provide her with the appropriate husbandry to keep it from coming back. Its not just the bones that are affected by MBD but it affects muscles and other systems in the chameleon..so its important to get it corrected asap.

The quickest way to correct it is to have a vet give her injections of calcium until her blood calcium levels are high enough to give her a shot of calcitonin which draws the calcium rapidly back into the bones.

You can give her liquid calcium sandoz or calcium gluconate but ease it into her mouth a bit at a time because its thick and hard for a chameleon to swallow. Make sure that she has a good UVB light and that the light from it doesn't pass through glass or plastic.

Here's some information I hope will help you ....
Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.

A wide variety of insects that have been well fed and gutloaded should be fed to it.

Since many of the feeder insects we use in captivity have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects just before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. (I use Rep-cal phosphorus-free calcium).

If you also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it. (I use Rep-cal phos.-free calcium/D3).

Dusting twice a month as well with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while. (I use herptivite which has beta carotene.)

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.
Please note that various supplements have various amounts of D3 and vitamin A and so some can be given more often than others. The idea still is not to overdo the fat soluble vitamins like D3 and prEformed vitamin A.

Here are some good sites for you to read too...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200406080...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
If you can't access the sites above that have the word "archive" in you can do it through the WayBackMachine.

Good luck!

 

[kelsxox]

The Repta Aid is good for chameleons that are not eating. It boost them up and hopefully gets them eating again. You can put a little of her calcium dust in the Repta Aid and give it once a day for about three days and then stop and see if she'll start to eat on her on. Are her eyes shut? How far away are her lights? If too close they might me bothering her eyes esecially if they are new light. You can not cure MBD but you can stop it from getting worse. You need to get her some liquid calcium asap and you will need to dose her with that everyday. A vets visit would be best.

A liquid calcium instead of powder suppliment ? & i havnt givin her any repta aid yet cause i was looking at what people had to say first , so thats good it should help her! Im just nervous about giving it to her i dont wang to hurt her trying to get her to open her mouth.. Whats the easiest way to do it?

 

[kelsxox]

If your chameleon has MBD it needs to be corrected and then you need to provide her with the appropriate husbandry to keep it from coming back. Its not just the bones that are affected by MBD but it affects muscles and other systems in the chameleon..so its important to get it corrected asap.

The quickest way to correct it is to have a vet give her injections of calcium until her blood calcium levels are high enough to give her a shot of calcitonin which draws the calcium rapidly back into the bones.

You can give her liquid calcium sandoz or calcium gluconate but ease it into her mouth a bit at a time because its thick and hard for a chameleon to swallow. Make sure that she has a good UVB light and that the light from it doesn't pass through glass or plastic.

Here's some information I hope will help you ....
Appropriate cage temperatures aid in digestion and thus play a part indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Exposure to UVB from either direct sunlight or a proper UVB light allows the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its system to make/keep the bones strong and be used in other systems in the chameleon as well. The UVB should not pass through glass or plastic no matter whether its from the sun or the UVB light. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear fluorescent Repti-sun 5.0 tube light. Some of the compacts, spirals and tube lights have caused health issues, but so far there have been no bad reports against this one.

A wide variety of insects that have been well fed and gutloaded should be fed to it.

Since many of the feeder insects we use in captivity have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus in them, its important to dust the insects just before you feed them to the chameleon at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder to help make up for it. (I use Rep-cal phosphorus-free calcium).

If you also dust twice a month with a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder it will ensure that your chameleon gets some D3 without overdoing it. It leaves the chameleon to produce the rest of what it needs through its exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system but D3 produced from exposure to UVB shouldn't as long as the chameleon can move in and out of it. (I use Rep-cal phos.-free calcium/D3).

Dusting twice a month as well with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets some vitamins without the danger of overdosing the vitamin A. PrEformed sources of vitamin A can build up in the system and may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD. However, there is controversy as to whether all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene and so some people give some prEformed vitamin A once in a while. (I use herptivite which has beta carotene.)

Gutloading/feeding the insects well helps to provide what the chameleon needs. I gutload crickets, roaches, locusts, superworms, etc. with an assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, mustard greens, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, etc.)

Calcium, phos., D3 and vitamin A are important players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon (muscles, etc.) and they need to be in balance. When trying to balance them, you need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon.
Please note that various supplements have various amounts of D3 and vitamin A and so some can be given more often than others. The idea still is not to overdo the fat soluble vitamins like D3 and prEformed vitamin A.

Here are some good sites for you to read too...
http://chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200605020...Vitamin.A.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200406080...d.Calcium.html
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/
http://web.archive.org/web/200601140...ww.adcham.com/
If you can't access the sites above that have the word "archive" in you can do it through the WayBackMachine.

Good luck!

I do have proper lighting and a large repti breeze cage for her with a 100 watt red night heat bulb .. Which i think is what has been affecting her eyes.. Was soposed to be
a 75 watt or less basking light i had sent someone to get .. And pet store owner recommended that so they picked it upp ..
As for supplements i have exo terra calcium & a muti vitamin . And a calcim wit d3 .. I gutload my crickets with carrots , romaine lettuce and sweet potato

 

[Elizadolots]

100 watt red night heat bulb

I think you should fill out the "how to ask for help" form so the experienced keepers here can give you advice. Just based on the 100 watt red bulb...which you are thinking should have been 75 watt...at NIGHT, I'm going to say you were not given the correct information.

If night time heat is required, it should be given by something that does not emit light. People here have done studies and proven that any light at night inhibits growth in young chameleons. I think it's safe to say that it means it's not a good thing.

**edited to add**

Ooops...I forgot to say HI! I get so involved with the chameleon's problem, I forget to be polite to the human....I will go iron my hands to atone (gratuitous Harry Potter reference).

 

[EvilLost]

I do have proper lighting and a large repti breeze cage for her with a 100 watt red night heat bulb .. Which i think is what has been affecting her eyes.. Was soposed to be
a 75 watt or less basking light i had sent someone to get .. And pet store owner recommended that so they picked it upp ..
As for supplements i have exo terra calcium & a muti vitamin . And a calcim wit d3 .. I gutload my crickets with carrots , romaine lettuce and sweet potato

Chameleons can see red light. You should not be using any heat at night unless your home is very cold (below 60F). If that is the case you need to get a CERAMIC (no light) heater.

I would highly recommend you to stop going to that pet store as they clearly have no clue what htey are doing and are just hurting the animal. In all honestly, I would get my money back from them as well.

MBD can be a serious issue, especially for a beginner owner. You REALLY need to get your animal to a vet; as Elizadolots said....if you think you need a 75W heat bulb at night....the care you have been told in general seems flat out wrong....

I'd also highly recommend filling out the how to help form, but more importantly check out the health forum for a link to local doctors in various areas. MBD isn't like catching a cold...

 

[jannb]

Check out this thread to see if you can find a vet anywhere close to you.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/area-area-country-vet-list-32880/

 

[lindawaz]

Hello and welcome to the forum! So sorry your first experience is with a sick Cham. You are not the first nor will you be the last to get bad information from a pet store trying to make a sale

I really hope you take the advice of the keepers here. Many chams have been given a new start from the excellent information given here. Please fill out the form- the link has been given to you in above posts.

If you have any doubt on the quality of care our Chams get check out the pics.

Good luck to you

 

[kelsxox]

nooo the 75 watt basking light was for during the DAY ONLY , not for night like the owner sold my friend! Sorry for the misunderstanding.. I do understand they cannot have any light at night, i have read it on a begginers care forum before i adopted my little aLexa..

 

[kelsxox]

Hello and welcome to the forum! So sorry your first experience is with a sick Cham. You are not the first nor will you be the last to get bad information from a pet store trying to make a sale

I really hope you take the advice of the keepers here. Many chams have been given a new start from the excellent information given here. Please fill out the form- the link has been given to you in above posts.

If you have any doubt on the quality of care our Chams get check out the pics.

Good luck to you

Yea thanks lindawaz, i check the responses on here everydaay as much as i can to get feedbacks! If it wasn't for the forums i probably would have been taking care of her just as good as the petshop was, they were trying to sell me a glass reptarium & i learned they become stressed in glass due to the lack of circulation & their ability to see their own reflextion from the glass so i got a LARGE repti breeze .. I always check on here now before giving my cham anything new !

 

[Elizadolots]

I do have proper lighting and a large repti breeze cage for her with a 100 watt red night heat bulb .

Is it not red?

Is it not used at night?

 

[kelsxox]

Is it not red?

Is it not used at night?

yes it's red but that was because it was picked up by mistake and it was too late to return it so i only used it causei had no other resource for heat.. i am exchanging it today.. i've only had her for 3 days...

Back to the repta-aid how will i feed this to her??? If i put the syringe next to her mouth will she open it without getting aggresive? Can someone give me a step by step prosedure to feed her this! & also she is 6-7 months old would she be considered a Adult chami or a jeuvinile ?

 

[kelsxox]

The Repta Aid is good for chameleons that are not eating. It boost them up and hopefully gets them eating again. You can put a little of her calcium dust in the Repta Aid and give it once a day for about three days and then stop and see if she'll start to eat on her on. Are her eyes shut? How far away are her lights? If too close they might me bothering her eyes esecially if they are new light. You can not cure MBD but you can stop it from getting worse. You need to get her some liquid calcium asap and you will need to dose her with that everyday. A vets visit would be best.

I did as you said jannb & mixed a little bit of calcium in with the repta aid .. took me a while to get her to open her mouth and start drinking droplets from the syringe but she didd! I was pretty nervous and shaky doing it, but i want her to start feeling better and eating again! Felt like i was bonding close with her, she was bright green staring at me with her two eyes while i was giving her itt! It was so cute So you said give it to her everyday for 3-4 days till she starts eating again?

 

[EvilLost]

good luck. I'm glad you got her to take some, it will be a very difficult road as a first time cham owner but at least you are trying...


although I will say it again and again...MBD is a SERIOUS ISSUE and you *REALLY* should take her to the vet.

 

[kelsxox]

good luck. I'm glad you got her to take some, it will be a very difficult road as a first time cham owner but at least you are trying...


although I will say it again and again...MBD is a SERIOUS ISSUE and you *REALLY* should take her to the vet.

I'm very aware it is , if there was one in this district i would bring her in a instant, im trying as hard as i can thou .. The most difficult part is giving her the repta aid in the syringe she'll start opening her mouth then stop and itll take forever to get her to open it again