How should we dust.

CasqueAbove

Chameleon Enthusiast
I have been doing some research on care in general, and why 2 animals seemingly kept in optimal conditions can have different outcomes.

One thing I have been seeing is that the concept of “dusting “ is always mentioned, but not explained. I believe that this may be one of the biggest factors in renal failure, gout and ultimately death.

One of the first things that is always skipped is hydration. But I thought we said “dusting”? That is because it is never explained how important hydration is to dusting, and it is essential. Without proper hydration, our supplements , even at the “proper” level, become overly taxing on the liver and kidneys. I believe this is significant because, in addition to this, a large percentage of captive chameleons eat far more than they would in the wild, with potentially higher levels of uric acid. All this adds up to slow buildup of gout and renal failure. I say a buildup because with both renal/kidney damage and gout, once it occurs it does not get better.
Ok, so now that we got that out of the way. How much to dust? Well, right now the only directions we have are “not like a powdered doughnut “. So let’s start there. Let’s assume we are talking about the same level of dusting. Now let’s say we have 3 owners- each with a Male Veiled.
One feeds 2 3/4in crickets per feeding
Another feeds 3 1/4in dubia roaches per feeding
And the last 2 1/2in crickets and a 1/2 dubia.
This is three different amounts. So now what? I think some basic logic can be used here and we can look at dusting as a dose. If we start out with a given amount of supplements that could be measured, we could more accurately supplement.

My technique is to use a small pinch, the maximum I would want him to eat in the cup and swirl it. I then swirl the feeders. The idea is that at least the max dose is limited and it creates a very light even spread.
 
IMHO it depends on what you're dusting with and why you're dusting....and even more importantly what insect you're dusting. If dusting with phos free calcium, isn't the idea to balance the calcium with the phos? So if you're dusting an insect with a higher ratio of calcium to phos you would need less calcium to balance it. If you're dusting an insect with a lower rate of calcium to phos then don't you need to dust with more calcium to make up for that?
 
I thought the dusting was to balance the ratio of phos to calcium as well as provide a balance amount of D3 to vitamin A and also keep the D3 at the right ratio that the chameleon has enough D3 from the. supplements to go along with the D3 from the UVB that the chameleon can absorb the calcium it needs.
 
I thought the dusting was to balance the ratio of phos to calcium as well as provide a balance amount of D3 to vitamin A and also keep the D3 at the right ratio that the chameleon has enough D3 from the. supplements to go along with the D3 from the UVB that the chameleon can absorb the calcium it needs.

I knew you would help with this. I wrote it last night because I feel it is a critical subject that gets glossed over, but as you point out, it is not always simple and straight forward as it seems.
I think we need to pay more attention to this aspect than is pointed out in care sheets. It is always presented as “a light dusting “. But as you say, what feeders and what supplements?
I know this is something you are interested in, and I as well. I definitely think it is a factor that is not properly addressed.
 
Interesting because I do feel the hydration fact is equally important in this since that is how they flush there body.

I have always used Cricket Shakers for supplements because I could get a very light dusting of all insects. I found that when I would do a pinch and try to coat the bugs it never quite worked out well lol. I would have a gob of it in the bottom and hardly anything on the insects.

I think people do not understand the whole varied diet concept. Even I cut out crickets as soon as I was able to however I have since added them in and will continue to add them into my variety. This is a big difference as well. If someone only feeds dubia they are not providing anything else that another feeder could bring. Then there is also the potential for the dubia to be higher in uric acid.

Feeder size matters as well. I tend to stay with 1/2 inch feeders as the largest I feed.
 
By saying "dust all the insects lightly" I think we help newbies get the supplements in the right range to have the chameleons stay healthy. If we start saying dust the crickets this heavily and the silkworms this lightly, etc. it will make it more complicated for the newbies...and they may get it wrong. It's hard enough trying to explain the two forms of vitamin A and the differences between D3 from the UVB in the light and the supplements IMHO. What do you think?
 
Someone shake up some crickets, and some dubia, and take pics. "you want them this ashy".

For "non calcium" im starting to think its the frequency not the dosage that is causing over supplementing. The dosage can easily be 10 fold difference between a sub adult on a growth spurt, and an adult getting a normal meal. yet if you dose every 2 weeks, it seems the dosage doesnt matter.

D3 and a few other fat soluble ones might be the exception. But even then, i wonder how long it take to clean out a dose of D3? Or to put it another way, if Chameleon got edema from too much D3, but was given it every feeding, would Chameleon get edema if the same total IU dosage was given once every 2 weeks vs divided up 3x a week?
 
Someone shake up some crickets, and some dubia, and take pics. "you want them this ashy".

For "non calcium" im starting to think its the frequency not the dosage that is causing over supplementing. The dosage can easily be 10 fold difference between a sub adult on a growth spurt, and an adult getting a normal meal. yet if you dose every 2 weeks, it seems the dosage doesnt matter.

D3 and a few other fat soluble ones might be the exception. But even then, i wonder how long it take to clean out a dose of D3? Or to put it another way, if Chameleon got edema from too much D3, but was given it every feeding, would Chameleon get edema if the same total IU dosage was given once every 2 weeks vs divided up 3x a week?

This is an interesting concept. People on diets have cheat days. The idea being that no mater what the body can only absorb so much.

I think there may be something to the frequency thing. If we are not continually adding will the body use what it needs and clear the rest ?
 
By saying "dust all the insects lightly" I think we help newbies get the supplements in the right range to have the chameleons stay healthy. If we start saying dust the crickets this heavily and the silkworms this lightly, etc. it will make it more complicated for the newbies...and they may get it wrong. It's hard enough trying to explain the two forms of vitamin A and the differences between D3 from the UVB in the light and the supplements IMHO. What do you think?

On a very newbie level, absolutely. The simple thing missing is @nightanole suggestion of picks.
In reality this is probably the missing ingredient. I also am thinking he is on to something for newbies. The frequency. If newbies only dust one or twice a week would it be safer?
 
By saying "dust all the insects lightly" I think we help newbies get the supplements in the right range to have the chameleons stay healthy. If we start saying dust the crickets this heavily and the silkworms this lightly, etc. it will make it more complicated for the newbies...and they may get it wrong. It's hard enough trying to explain the two forms of vitamin A and the differences between D3 from the UVB in the light and the supplements IMHO. What do you think?
I've been using CasqueAbove's technique with my beardie for over a year now, and had intended to do the same with my cham.
My technique is to use a small pinch, the maximum I would want him to eat in the cup and swirl it. I then swirl the feeders. The idea is that at least the max dose is limited and it creates a very light even spread.


I think there's also such a thing as overthinking this stuff. IMO&E, It has to be as simple and straightforward as possible for the average bear to follow & get right. YMMV.
 
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For better control I put my supplements in cheap salt and pepper shakers. I always put the supplement in the cup first and then can dump out any excess if I spill.
Another way to control amounts is to not dust all the feeders. Only dust half the feeders and feed the dusted ones first to ensure they are eaten before they clean off.
 
For better control I put my supplements in cheap salt and pepper shakers. I always put the supplement in the cup first and then can dump out any excess if I spill.
Another way to control amounts is to not dust all the feeders. Only dust half the feeders and feed the dusted ones first to ensure they are eaten before they clean off.
My beardie is smarter than that. He'll hold out for days to a week. The calcium is bad enough, but he really hates the vitamins. I've taken (somewhat) to gut loading his roaches with them.

I use a tweezer forceps to "measure" supplements; seems to be the right amount without too much futzing... Give 'em a day, and the roaches eat whatever's in the feeder bowl.
 
By saying "dust all the insects lightly" I think we help newbies get the supplements in the right range to have the chameleons stay healthy. If we start saying dust the crickets this heavily and the silkworms this lightly, etc. it will make it more complicated for the newbies...and they may get it wrong. It's hard enough trying to explain the two forms of vitamin A and the differences between D3 from the UVB in the light and the supplements IMHO. What do you think?
I just came around to this thread, did you or anyone make anything like this? I’m trying to find more information about it please let me know 🙏🏼
 
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Walmart 1$ . Get 2 one for every dust and the other for multi vit. These don't allow you to get powdered donut crickets 🦗🤣 .... I remembered I was here with powder everywhere about a month ago. I got the shaker ,tried dusting in cricket, and finally used the bag method . For my worms I just put in cup and sprinkle .
 
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