how depressing..

Julirs said:
She is starving and I am afraid there is not much you can do. Maybe someone in your area can take her in and help her. I am not trying to be mean, but you just do not have the experience to force feed. I am not sure if someone here can walk you through it. You should not get animals that you do not have the money to care for properly, and that includes future vet care.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with Juli. I think the very best thing you can do for your Cham is to make a new thread Sick Cham free to experienced owner and hope that one of the Sr members will take her tomorrow and give her the help she needs before it's too late.
 
In various threads that you have posted you have said....
you don't know about gutloading...are you gutloading the insects now? BTW how big are the crickets you've been using? You can gutload/feed them with a wide variety of greens (dandelions, kale, collards, endive, escarole, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, zucchini, sweet red peppers, sweet potato, etc.).

You don't list any supplements...asked about dusting...and you were told how to do it and with what...have you been dusting as was recommended (phos.-free calcium at most feedings, phos.-free calcium/D3 twice a month and a vitamin powder with a beta carotene source of vitamin A twice a month)?

You mention using a compact fluorescent (UVB flourecent coil bulb of 20 watts and a infrared heat lamp of 75W from zoomed)...compact fluorescent UVB lights (some spirals and even some long fluorescent tubes) can sometimes cause health issues including eye issues. The most often recommended UVB light is the long linear Repti-sun 5.0 tube light because it hasn't had any bad reports against it. It could be your UVB light that is making her keep her eyes shut during the day.

For a basking light (which I never use for veiled females...I keep their temps in the low to mid 80's by using a double fluorescent fixture with one UVB light and one regular fluorescent tube) you can use a regular incandescent household bulb in a dome hood of a wattage that provides the right temperature in the basking area.

You said its FREEZING at night. its been around 49F at night...for a chameleon that young I would use a ceramic heat emitting "bulb" at night to keep the temperature in the high 50'sF.

You said that there have been ants in the cage...did you get rid of them yet?
I would hate to think they were biting your chameleon or that she was eating them. (They contain formic acid).

Yesterday you said..."i found my chameleon on the ground this morning she seemd to be walking around. she would climb a bit then shed let herself fall straight down to the bottom. i feel like shes really broken somthing. or maybe her grip is weak, she walks like if she doesnt have a spine...all funky. definitly not walking normal, she can barley even stand steady"...have you been using the supplements suggested? Even if you have, if she's not eating she won't be getting them.

Your chameleon is very near to death....and that's a real shame since she was such a beauty when you showed her in your first posts. Its a shame to see her ending up like this...especially if you haven't made the changes that everyone here on the forum has suggested to you to help prevent this from happening. IMHO you either need to step up to the plate and get her to the vet NOW or you need to do as was suggested, and get her someone else to look after her and give her a chance. She deserves that.
 
She may have other things going on but dehydration is a big problem too and should be addressed ASAP. Have you tried a shower??? I would put towels on the bottom of your tub for cushion in case she falls off the plant. You will put a plant on top the towels and spray luke warm wall against your shower wall so the water will bounce off hit her and the plant to encourage her to drink. Have her in there for about 30 minutes but watch her the ENTIRE time. Don't not spray her directly w/ shower head it has to bounce off the shower wall. Not having a dipper is a big problem and even though you spray that's not enough. I used a chinese container, poked a hole in the bottom w/ a pin and made it bigger little by little until I got the dip I wanted. It worked perfectly. On a side note MBD might be happening and you will need to make sure she is getting the calcium she needs. Make sure you use repisun 5.0 uvb fluorescent light for the Uv, which is needed for calcium to be absorbed. I was recommended a good calcium dust from another member and will give link to you later. I'm writing this on my cell so I can't copy and paste link but I will when I get to computer. Sounds like forums members have been giving you a lot of helpful info in the past and now, you really need to use that and make corrections. Also from video it looked like you have substrate on bottom, if so remove it. Hope she gets better!!!!!!!!!
 
Can I ask why hostile, hurtful posts are part of the "health clinic"?

If all you have to contribute is a negative comment, then I would suggest this is not the proper forum for it.

Just based on what I can see, she owned the chameleon for less than 2 weeks.

I understand the advice, I do not understand the abuse.
 
Elizadolots said:
Can I ask why hostile, hurtful posts are part of the "health clinic"?

If all you have to contribute is a negative comment, then I would suggest this is not the proper forum for it.

Just based on what I can see, she owned the chameleon for less than 2 weeks.

I understand the advice, I do not understand the abuse.
Click to expand...
i think there is a lot of frustration from previous responses, attempts at assistance, suggestions, etc. in regard to this particular cham...even to the point of statements about pm'ing and staying in touch with people that are local and such a rapid decline without seeing a lot of that information being put to use...
not excusing "attacks" or anything of that nature, just being somewhat involved in some of the previous attempts, can relate to the negative feelings....

there are several people in this forum that do not want to see her die...and would like to save her if at all possible....

to me, it reminds me of movies (which, yes, i realize are dramatized)....where people are out in the desert and are severely dehydrated, malnourished and absolutely just trying to go on with very little strength or hope or fight left....

please find her help, whether a forum members takes her or you take her to an emergency vet...i know we've supplied the information for vets that would be local to you...and information on how to contact any of us....
 
Elizadolots said:
Can I ask why hostile, hurtful posts are part of the "health clinic"?

If all you have to contribute is a negative comment, then I would suggest this is not the proper forum for it.

Just based on what I can see, she owned the chameleon for less than 2 weeks.

I understand the advice, I do not understand the abuse.
Click to expand...

I really do not see alot of abuse in this thread. I see plenty of helpful tips, and questions on why advice was not taken, and I will never see take her to a Vet or give her to someone that can help her as abuse. Maybe I missed something?
 
I'm going to have to agree with Elizadolots on this one; there have been a few unnecessary posts and they have been removed.

You aren't helping the situation if all you do is attack the owner. Concrete advice is what is needed here, not ego boosting statements.

Raainn, let us know how your chameleon is doing today.
 
Trace, thank you for clearing that up...I was reading through thinking "okay, was I hallucinating?"

I really want her to be able to concentrate on the good advice she is being given and the hurtful posts didn't work toward that end.

Raain, keeping in mind that you need to get her to the vet and you need to make the changes to lighting and stuff that have been suggested, I'm going to toss in something I think you should try in addition:

Bottled water. I know you say you mist her with "drinkable water" but that might be tap water or water that's been run through a charcoal filter (like a Brita filter). San Diego just started fluoridating the tap water. Those household filters do not remove fluoride.

I doubt that it could be the sole cause of the problem, but too much fluoride can look like MBD and I suspect an animal that is already compromised might be more vulnerable.

Here's some info.

Buy some purified or distilled water and use that. It can't possibly hurt her and it might help.
 
Did I miss the nasty threads? And I am actually a bit tired of hearing about the ego thing, ego has nothing to do with taking the time to actually point someone in the right direction.
 
Even before they were deleted I did not see anything terribly out of line, maybe just a little by some. Blunt is not necessarily mean. People tried to help her out and gave tons of advice when the OP asked for it. It is very frustrating to see an animal suffering because that advice wasn't used. It may be viewed as hostility but I think it was just pure frustration that an animal was dying despite our best efforts to help it and leniency went out the window knowing the problems were not addressed as they should have been given the info that was provided. It may have hurt the OP's feelings but it's the truth.
 
It needs to made clearer (beyond the forum by-line) that the forum will only be useful if advice is followed. Its always ultimately up to the poster to do that or not.
I think having such a forum raises unrealistic expectations for so many, that there will be a simple solution and they will save the cost of vet care.
You know this, I know this, we all do.
I think we also know that the format is self defeating. A barrage of information, often
unrelated and unessential info simply causes sensory overload and confusion for posters
and results in them doing nothing at all.
No rep system or fancy titles can tell a person which info is sound or not either.
Long ago I suggested a mentor system instead, but it disappeared into cyber space.
Little wonder both those asking and those helping get frustrated, as long as such a forum is open slather, this will always be the case.
Useful posts from folk like Kinyongia are lost among the storm of opinions and cyber trash.
Surely better to nominate these people as 'health advisors' and have folk point them out
to newcomers and let them deal with it, than lose more and more chameleons to the current antiquated system.
 
No, there was some name calling. Just one line posts making mean comments with nothing at all about how she could help the chameleon. Those were what I reacted to and they have been, rightly, deleted.

I really like the mentor idea. The problem I see is that the people who are truly expert would be quickly overwhelmed by people needing mentoring.
 
Elizadolots said:
No, there was some name calling. Just one line posts making mean comments with nothing at all about how she could help the chameleon. Those were what I reacted to and they have been, rightly, deleted.

I really like the mentor idea. The problem I see is that the people who are truly expert would be quickly overwhelmed by people needing mentoring.
Click to expand...

Oh I must have missed those. I'm glad those were promptly deleted. I hope this cham survives nonetheless, but I don't have high hopes. :(

I like the mentor idea too but I agree it may be overwhelming if only a few people are designated. But maybe it could still act the same where everyone comments, just those people's opinions might be given a little more value. Instead of just telling them to PM someone.
 
As one of the newer members on this forum and to chams the mentoring idea sounds good on paper but to be honest if you were dedicated enough to be walked through the different intricities of caring for these beautiful creatures then I feel like you would not need one. You would be more inclined to do things such as searching out how to best care for them like I have by searching old posts and asking questions about things you are not sure about. Many years ago I got my first cham at a pet store and was given some piss poor instructions on how to care for them and there was not a favorable outcome, I didnt do my research and he lasted 4 months. If this tool would have been available then and I had a place to do what I mentioned Im sure there would have been a different outcome.
 
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