Housing Panther Females Together???

[kgallego]

I know what most people will say - it's best to house female panther chameleons seperately. However, what I would like to know is if there is anyone out there who does house females together and what challenges occur?

Any input from someone with experience doing this would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Olimpia]

If she doesn't see this thread, find the member Dez from Chamalot Chameleons. I know that she and her husband had a very large, walk-in cage where they kept several sisters together. I have no experience keeping girls together, personally.

However, I can imagine that if you keep them like this permanently then egg-laying issues become more messy. Such as, you have to keep an eye on who is gravid, who is not, who has laid, who hasn't yet, who has gone too long without laying those eggs, etc. At that point it might be easier to separate them until they lay and then return them to the group, but perhaps at that point it's just simpler to house them separately! I can tell apart my two baby girls, but could I do it efficiently with 10? I don't know.

 

[kgallego]

If she doesn't see this thread, find the member Dez from Chamalot Chameleons. I know that she and her husband had a very large, walk-in cage where they kept several sisters together. I have no experience keeping girls together, personally.

However, I can imagine that if you keep them like this permanently then egg-laying issues become more messy. Such as, you have to keep an eye on who is gravid, who is not, who has laid, who hasn't yet, who has gone too long without laying those eggs, etc. At that point it might be easier to separate them until they lay and then return them to the group, but perhaps at that point it's just simpler to house them separately! I can tell apart my two baby girls, but could I do it efficiently with 10? I don't know.

Thanks for the input. I'm only planning on housing two together temporarily, so I guess I'll see. I do monitor them very closely. I have a camera on them 24/7.

 

[SMCNARY]

Yes it is best to keep them separate but if only temporary it can be done. I did it many years ago,the bigger the cage the better. Having more then one basking site will help as u will almost always have one that dominates the others. Feeding can be a problem for the same reason. You need to make sure that there is no signs of aggressive behavior in the beginning and then watch for it as time goes on. Watch for signs of behavioral changes and if one or both show signs of stress,changes in eating habits etc. then separate them ASAP. I have kept as many as 3 in the same cage but again it is not the best conditions. I was selling chams wholesale and retail at the time so we often did this and many breeders and wholesale suppliers do it still now. I couldn't tell you why but some never had a problem staying together while others became very aggressive towards each other. Just watch them carefully and separate them immediately if you see any negative behavior. Keeping them very well fed will also help as then there will be no need for competition for food. Hope this helps and good luck!!!

One additional note, in very large cages or a free range type environment it can be done long term but all the above still should be watched.

 

[DekuScrub]

so your plan is to house 2 adult females together?

I currently have 2 female jacksons in one 2x2x4, theyre sisters and theve been housed together their entire lives.

ive had no incidents and in fact seem to prefer the company. they tend to stay nearby one another when i let them out to wander around trees and ive even caught them lapping water of of one anothers face.

other than that ive never housed chameleons together except for breeding pairs on the short term.

youll probably do well with 2x3x4 or larger if it is heavily planted and multiple basking spots as was mentioned.

youre going to have to hand feed them to ensure both are getting an appropriate amount of food. and one isnt just gobbling them all up before the other has a chance.

BUT the biggest issue is going to be the chameleons themselves.

if one is overly aggressive or easily stressed its simply not going to work out.

even if you get a pair content with being housed together their general demeanor could easily change, if youre breeding, once theyre gravid.

its likely to be much less challenging if housed together when theyre young, youre probably much more likely to run into personality discrepancies with sexually mature females.

so my recommendation, is go for it, just keep a very close eye on them. and be prepared to separate them if occurrences do arise.

i mean if youre doing this with two sexually mature females who have otherwisse lived their entire lives alone expect it to fail. but you never know unless you try

 

[kgallego]

Yes it is best to keep them separate but if only temporary it can be done. I did it many years ago,the bigger the cage the better. Having more then one basking site will help as u will almost always have one that dominates the others. Feeding can be a problem for the same reason. You need to make sure that there is no signs of aggressive behavior in the beginning and then watch for it as time goes on. Watch for signs of behavioral changes and if one or both show signs of stress,changes in eating habits etc. then separate them ASAP. I have kept as many as 3 in the same cage but again it is not the best conditions. I was selling chams wholesale and retail at the time so we often did this and many breeders and wholesale suppliers do it still now. I couldn't tell you why but some never had a problem staying together while others became very aggressive towards each other. Just watch them carefully and separate them immediately if you see any negative behavior. Keeping them very well fed will also help as then there will be no need for competition for food. Hope this helps and good luck!!!

One additional note, in very large cages or a free range type environment it can be done long term but all the above still should be watched.

Thanks for the input. That was kind of the plan I was going with. They're not acting aggressive towards eachother at all, but you can definately tell that they notice eachother. They're constantly looking at eachother, which I don't believe is a good thing. I'm working on building another cage now.

 

[Dez]

If she doesn't see this thread, find the member Dez from Chamalot Chameleons. I know that she and her husband had a very large, walk-in cage where they kept several sisters together. I have no experience keeping girls together, personally.

However, I can imagine that if you keep them like this permanently then egg-laying issues become more messy. Such as, you have to keep an eye on who is gravid, who is not, who has laid, who hasn't yet, who has gone too long without laying those eggs, etc. At that point it might be easier to separate them until they lay and then return them to the group, but perhaps at that point it's just simpler to house them separately! I can tell apart my two baby girls, but could I do it efficiently with 10? I don't know.

Hi, here is pics of our outdoor cage

https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/dez/663-outdoor-enclosure.html

At times I keep juvi females in this enclosure.. At the moment I have about 5 young veiled girls in there that are for sale.

They do not stay in this cage their whole lives. Once they get to a point they have eggs they are moved to a separate cage so I can keep an eye on them with egg laying.

Even tho chameleons raised together get along better there are still risks. They will shoot food out of each others mouths or try to shoot at the others eye. They may fight when one steps on the other one. Injures can easily happen and DO happen.

Ideally I like to use the cage for a mating pair or 1.2 group. But when I have many babies and need room I will put several females in the cage since it is large enough to accommodate them

Housing 2 females in a 2x2x4 cage does not work. I have tried this before when I was in a pinch for space and one female would always develop signs of an RI that would go away once she was separated.... I can only assume it was a stress related illness.

I also would not house two together that where not raised together

 

[kgallego]

Hi, here is pics of our outdoor cage

https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/dez/663-outdoor-enclosure.html

At times I keep juvi females in this enclosure.. At the moment I have about 5 young veiled girls in there that are for sale.

They do not stay in this cage their whole lives. Once they get to a point they have eggs they are moved to a separate cage so I can keep an eye on them with egg laying.

Even tho chameleons raised together get along better there are still risks. They will shoot food out of each others mouths or try to shoot at the others eye. They may fight when one steps on the other one. Injures can easily happen and DO happen.

Ideally I like to use the cage for a mating pair or 1.2 group. But when I have many babies and need room I will put several females in the cage since it is large enough to accommodate them

Housing 2 females in a 2x2x4 cage does not work. I have tried this before when I was in a pinch for space and one female would always develop signs of an RI that would go away once she was separated.... I can only assume it was a stress related illness.

I also would not house two together that where not raised together

Interesting. Thanks for the input. So far my girls are getting along alright...for now. I'll have them seperate cages soon.