High daytime humidity

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
I just wanted to bring something up because I see more and more people advising to get lower humidity during the day. This causes unnecessary fear for newbies IMO. I agree that 100% at night given good ventilation is beneficial, but I do not agree that we NEED to lower humidity during the day if we also have good ventilation. The thing is, if you have a screen enclosure, there should be plenty of air exchange. Even with a proper glass enclosure you have plenty. That's where the concern lies. Chameleons are thriving all over the world in areas with high daytime humidity... Where were all the RI's when we were misting for 30 minutes a day years ago and thought we needed dry nights? Why aren't any of us keeping chams outside in humid climates losing our chameleons because it is close to 100% 24/7? Instead of saying lower your humidity to 'X' we should be taking a look at the person's air exchange. Is it screen? If glass, is there chimney effect? Maybe a computer fan? If these things are in place you're fine! Then, if your house is 60+% you're going to have other problems to worry about, don't worry about the cham he/she will be fine.
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
I understand what you are saying. My opinion is just based on my experience with Beman.

When he was 8ish months old and you probably remember this since I came to you for help I was constantly worried about him gaping.... I thought he was seeing his reflecting in the clearside. I had added the pc fans on top to pull air up and out. I replaced 2 panels in the front of my cage with screen to have even more air circulation. I even pulled the front door clearside thinking it was circulation or even him seeing his reflections. I took him to the vet twice to make sure it was not an RI. Temps were perfect... My humidity level was 65-70% in the house. So I got a dehumidifier to run during the day while his lights were on. And he stopped gaping instantly after having the humidity lowered to 40ish. I replaced all the screen panels with clearside again and he still did not gape.

My dehumidifier died. And it took almost 2 weeks to get another one. He immediately started gaping at basking again. I got the new one. He stopped within an hour of it being on with the lower humidity levels.

Last week I forgot to kick on the dehumidifier and sure enough he was sitting at basking gaping. I kick it on and with an hour my humidity level drops and he is fine again.

So for Beman it is something that impacts him. Maybe because he is a Veiled... I don't know. I just know he does better when his humidity levels are below 50% during the day.
 

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
I understand what you are saying. My opinion is just based on my experience with Beman.

When he was 8ish months old and you probably remember this since I came to you for help I was constantly worried about him gaping.... I thought he was seeing his reflecting in the clearside. I had added the pc fans on top to pull air up and out. I replaced 2 panels in the front of my cage with screen to have even more air circulation. I even pulled the front door clearside thinking it was circulation or even him seeing his reflections. I took him to the vet twice to make sure it was not an RI. Temps were perfect... My humidity level was 65-70% in the house. So I got a dehumidifier to run during the day while his lights were on. And he stopped gaping instantly after having the humidity lowered to 40ish. I replaced all the screen panels with clearside again and he still did not gape.

My dehumidifier died. And it took almost 2 weeks to get another one. He immediately started gaping at basking again. I got the new one. He stopped within an hour of it being on with the lower humidity levels.

Last week I forgot to kick on the dehumidifier and sure enough he was sitting at basking gaping. I kick it on and with an hour my humidity level drops and he is fine again.

So for Beman it is something that impacts him. Maybe because he is a Veiled... I don't know. I just know he does better when his humidity levels are below 50% during the day.
Sorry I just disagree that humidity would cause that. And I think you're causing unnecessary fear for people. How long have you had beman? Many here have had chams for years and years(longer than me) under intense humidity without problems. Veileds thrive in florida! Gaping isn't inherently bad. Many of us had chams gape, it's a normal way to vent heat. It's possible the humidity was amplifying the heat and making him warmer, sure. Also, the idea of humidity being bad is threat from RI. Not that it would stress them out.
 
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jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
I don't doubt your findings, but what I think it may be is that he's overheating with the high humidity+heat. Compare a 90 degree day on the east coast to a 90 on the west. So maybe if humid, watch the temperatures. I would see my Panthers gape a little when it was hot. I don't think it was bad though, I could tell when it got too hot they would seek cooler areas.
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Sorry I just disagree that humidity would cause that. And I think you're causing unnecessary fear for people. How long have you had beman? Many here have had chams for years and years under intense humidity without problems. Veileds thrive in florida! Gaping isn't inherently bad. Many of us had chams gape, it's a normal way to vent heat. It's possible the humidity was amplifying the heat and making him warmer, sure. Also, the idea of humidity being bad is threat from RI. Not that it would stress them out.
I don't doubt your findings, but what I think it may be is that he's overheating with the high humidity+heat. Compare a 90 degree day on the east coast to a 90 on the west. So maybe if humid, watch the temperatures. I would see my Panthers gape a little when it was hot. I don't think it was bad though, I could tell when it got too hot they would seek cooler areas.
I have had Beman since October of 2018. He will be 2 years old in June. So for me 70% humidity in my house with him under an 87 degree basking does not work. I also have a herpstat to control the basking temp. I do not have central heat or air to impact my levels. I spoke to quite a few people about it. And it was constant gaping for hours not a few minutes. I do not suggest that everyone go get a dehumidifier. In fact I have only suggested it a handful of times. I do say that Veileds do better with a 30-50% daytime humidity. So I am not sure how I am causing panic and fear? This is what I have learned from people like Petr Necas and Bill Strand.

I don't think that just because Veileds are in Florida means that they are healthy. I have seen pics of them that people have posted and they look awful. Just because they manage to survive does not mean it is optimal conditions for them.
 

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
I have had Beman since October of 2018. He will be 2 years old in June. So for me 70% humidity in my house with him under an 87 degree basking does not work. I also have a herpstat to control the basking temp. I do not have central heat or air to impact my levels. I spoke to quite a few people about it. And it was constant gaping for hours not a few minutes. I do not suggest that everyone go get a dehumidifier. In fact I have only suggested it a handful of times. I do say that Veileds do better with a 30-50% daytime humidity. So I am not sure how I am causing panic and fear? This is what I have learned from people like Petr Necas and Bill Strand.

I don't think that just because Veileds are in Florida means that they are healthy. I have seen pics of them that people have posted and they look awful. Just because they manage to survive does not mean it is optimal conditions for them.
I'm pretty sure Bill has mentioned that it is more about air exchange than actual humidity. Might be confusing him with someone though. Fair enough point about the wild chams may not be optimal, but I doubt their struggles are due to the humidity. They also are happy enough to breed. You don't have the experience/studies to say in stone that they do better at a certain % humidity and no one does I don't mean that as an insult. There is no indication that humidity alone causes problems.

CB chameleons aren't as difficult as people make them out to be. So much things to freak out newbies that i see on the forums. I don't even mean you @Beman Just unnecessary reasons for worry from the general population. These animals survive a diverse range of conditions. Sure keep them within reason, but those of us with outdoor chams seem to have the healthiest animals and yet that is where you can control conditions the least. Imagine being a person in a protective bubble with sanitized everything and constant room temp. We'd be fragile weak creatures lol.
 

janjan20

Chameleon Enthusiast
I can speak to some degree to this since I have housed 2 veiled outside here in Florida (I know it's not a valid # for any kind of scientific basis just my experience). I noticed my first cham was more heat tolerant than my current one. I do have to put a fan outside during the hottest times in the summer just to keep the air circulating. I noticed he gaped more in the summer with 100% humidity and 90 degree weather in the shade. So far he seems to be thriving with no issues I can see. My last cham I hardly ever saw him gape in the same conditions. Unfortunately, he did pass but he may have had underlying health issues before I found him. I think it maybe a case by case basis to see how the cham does with the high humidity high heat environment. Seems like the environment Beman is in he has acclimated too and less tolerant of high humidity high heat? James in your experience with panthers and even your Parson, what has been your observations? Have they all been similar? Also, did you notice a difference when you moved to a different climate (I forgot where you lived before)? I hope I don't sound redundant Lol!
 

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
I can speak to some degree to this since I have housed 2 veiled outside here in Florida (I know it's not a valid # for any kind of scientific basis just my experience). I noticed my first cham was more heat tolerant than my current one. I do have to put a fan outside during the hottest times in the summer just to keep the air circulating. I noticed he gaped more in the summer with 100% humidity and 90 degree weather in the shade. So far he seems to be thriving with no issues I can see. My last cham I hardly ever saw him gape in the same conditions. Unfortunately, he did pass but he may have had underlying health issues before I found him. I think it maybe a case by case basis to see how the cham does with the high humidity high heat environment. Seems like the environment Beman is in he has acclimated too and less tolerant of high humidity high heat? James in your experience with panthers and even your Parson, what has been your observations? Have they all been similar? Also, did you notice a difference when you moved to a different climate (I forgot where you lived before)? I hope I don't sound redundant Lol!
Good point about the adapting, maybe the drastic change is what the cham is not used.

My Parsons is by far most normal outside, same with Panthers. And that is through mid 90 temps and high humidity. We have fog roll through in the mornings, our climate is just like yours in the summer, but with little lower temps(if you're at 100 we're prob at 90)
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
I'm pretty sure Bill has mentioned that it is more about air exchange than actual humidity. Might be confusing him with someone though. Fair enough point about the wild chams may not be optimal, but I doubt their struggles are due to the humidity. They also are happy enough to breed. You don't have the experience/studies to say in stone that they do better at a certain % humidity and no one does I don't mean that as an insult. There is no indication that humidity alone causes problems.

CB chameleons aren't as difficult as people make them out to be. So much things to freak out newbies that i see on the forums. I don't even mean you @Beman Just unnecessary reasons for worry from the general population. These animals survive a diverse range of conditions. Sure keep them within reason, but those of us with outdoor chams seem to have the healthiest animals and yet that is where you can control conditions the least. Imagine being a person in a protective bubble with sanitized everything and constant room temp. We'd be fragile weak creatures lol.
No, I am not confusing him with someone else. I actually was talking with him when all of this was going on with Beman gaping.

You have only had a Parsons and Panthers. So your basing your opinion on your experience with other species rather then what I am basing mine on.

I am also not saying that I am right and everyone else is wrong. Simply that this is my experience with my Veiled. I have never said that I am an expert. I am still learning.

Also Beman would never go down to move out of the heat when he was gaping for hours. He stayed right there under the basking fixture with his mouth open.

While humidity alone may not cause issues. Humidity and heat can lead to a respiratory infection. So for my chameleon this works for him. Is it necessary for all with a Veiled absolutely not. But I found a direct link between him gaping for hours at a time and my humidity level being up over 70% being the issue.

And again this is what I do for my chameleon. Not what I recommend all do.
 

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
No, I am not confusing him with someone else. I actually was talking with him when all of this was going on with Beman gaping.

You have only had a Parsons and Panthers. So your basing your opinion on your experience with other species rather then what I am basing mine on.

I am also not saying that I am right and everyone else is wrong. Simply that this is my experience with my Veiled. I have never said that I am an expert. I am still learning.

Also Beman would never go down to move out of the heat when he was gaping for hours. He stayed right there under the basking fixture with his mouth open.

While humidity alone may not cause issues. Humidity and heat can lead to a respiratory infection. So for my chameleon this works for him. Is it necessary for all with a Veiled absolutely not. But I found a direct link between him gaping for hours at a time and my humidity level being up over 70% being the issue.

And again this is what I do for my chameleon. Not what I recommend all do.
I've had a veiled....

And I said *I* may be confusing, not you....

Where is your proof that humidity+heat causes respiratory infection? In that case all chams in florida would be dead. All of us that keep outside would be dead. I agree with no ventilation sure it can.
 

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
Anyway, I don't have a problem with your set up, not at all. I just don't believe it to be a humidity problem, but a ventilation problem. I don't know for sure, but neither does anyone else.
 

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
Oh and let me clarify, if your humidity is high, like outside in florida. Then plenty of water should be available. I don't think a regular misting schedule would fit well with 100% humidity and 90 degree temps. I'm talking more about the person with 65% humidity, room temp, and a basking spot. I see nothing wrong with that and won't scare someone into thinking that'll cause an RI.
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Anyway, I don't have a problem with your set up, not at all. I just don't believe it to be a humidity problem, but a ventilation problem. I don't know for sure, but neither does anyone else.
I think it is more of a based on the environment and the chameleon thing. It works for Beman. And like I said I do not advice people have the same set up as I do. This is what works for my chameleon in my environment.

Beman is also a Petco boy. Smaller then the average male Veiled. There may be something underlying for him that causes him to react this way to higher humidity levels during the day.
 

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
I think it is more of a based on the environment and the chameleon thing. It works for Beman. And like I said I do not advice people have the same set up as I do. This is what works for my chameleon in my environment.

Beman is also a Petco boy. Smaller then the average male Veiled. There may be something underlying for him that causes him to react this way to higher humidity levels during the day.
Nah im sure he's healthy. I think you're doing a great job with him, I didn't intend it as there's any problems with lowering it to 30-40. I just think it's not necessary in a lot of cases. Btw when I made this post, I didn't even have you in mind. I just noticed people bringing it up often and don't totally agree that you need to lower humidity.
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Nah im sure he's healthy. I think you're doing a great job with him, I didn't intend it as there's any problems with lowering it to 30-40. I just think it's not necessary in a lot of cases. Btw when I made this post, I didn't even have you in mind. I just noticed people bringing it up often and don't totally agree that you need to lower humidity.
Thanks I do try. His sits at about 45% on average up to 50%. It is only when it is up above 70% that he has issues. So I do agree with what your saying as well.
 

janjan20

Chameleon Enthusiast
And 100% humidity with 90 in the shade is a massive difference from room temp+basking spot and 60-70% humidity lol.
Yeah it is a big difference lol! As far as gaping goes I know it's to regulate temp but at what point does it be come dangerous when there are no issues/signs of RI? I don't really know the physiology or process of thermoregulation of reptiles in general when they try to "cool down". Sorry to sound uneducated lol! I am very curious because my chameleons live outdoors and I do have concerns with overheating excessive gaping etc.
 
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