herp medical supplies

[DekuScrub]

i remember seeing a post with a link to miscellaneous herp medical supplies. just wondering whats available online. and does anyone know where i can send fecal exams and not to have to involve a vet? i dont have very many options locally and the better two vets in the area still seem incompetent and an unnecessary evil to have to get my fecals done through and get medications from. i ask this becuase ive been offered yet another pair of jacksons, but i dont want to have to deal with getting over priced fecals done and over priced medications if i can do this on my own.

any insight?

 

[Rottsko]

Here's the site i think you're talking about with the meds. As far as doing your own fecals, I'm not experienced with that. I take mine to the vet and I'd like to be able to do it myself at some point in the future. There was a thread that talked about doing your own fecals and where to buy the equipment. I'll look for it.

 

[DekuScrub]

well i know for a fact that my vet dosnt do the fecals they just ship them out to a lab. so i figured whatever lab would be just as readily available to me as them, without the additional expenditure on my vets lack of expertise.


"Here's the site i think you're talking about with the meds." did you have a link to attach to that sentence?

 

[Rottsko]

Heres the link to the thread with the supplies and equipment. It's in page 2.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/anybody-do-thier-own-chams-fecal-examinations-69896/index2.html

Luckily I have a pretty good exotic pets vet and the vet that works with chams is pretty cool and knowledgeable. It's funny bc I had to fill out a questionnaire the first visit about their husbandry and she looked at me like, well I don't have anything to add to this visit. She told my wife she was pretty impressed with my chams and their set ups. Thx CF!!

 

[Rottsko]

well i know for a fact that my vet dosnt do the fecals they just ship them out to a lab. so i figured whatever lab would be just as readily available to me as them, without the additional expenditure on my vets lack of expertise.


"Here's the site i think you're talking about with the meds." did you have a link to attach to that sentence?

Duh.

http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Reptilestore.html

It's also in the thread I linked.

 

[Solid Snake]

Dekuscrub, is there a university or veterinarian college near you?

It may be worth a try to contact them, and see if they wouldnt mind doing them.

Ive heard of others going this route, sometimes being done for free, just for the experience.

 

[DekuScrub]

Dekuscrub, is there a university or veterinarian college near you?

It may be worth a try to contact them, and see if they wouldnt mind doing them.

Ive heard of others going this route, sometimes being done for free, just for the experience.

yeah i was considering seeing if penn state could do it. my sister goes there, so depending on what campus i may just be able to send fecals with her. theres an "emergancy facility" in philly which is pretty close. but from what i understand theyre more expensive, at least according to my local vet. then again he may just be saying that to keep my business. dont much trust the guy since he burnt my savannah.

haha its just getting another pair cheap would be nice, but then im looking at vet expenses on top of that. i may not even bother. i wish they guy knew if they had been treated already, that would just be a nice weight off my shoulders. thats why i was wondering about getting them screened in a thrifty manner. WCs can really be more trouble than theyre worth, literally

 

[ataraxia]

i dont want to have to deal with getting over priced fecals done and over priced medications if i can do this on my own.

any insight?

Some meds will be the hardest thing to get on your own.

Buying a scope will be one of the best investments you have ever made if you think you are dealing with possible parasite issues..

 

[coldbloodedAL]

Some meds will be the hardest thing to get on your own.

Buying a scope will be one of the best investments you have ever made if you think you are dealing with possible parasite issues..

I agree with this, My scope has payed for itself already in the few months I have had it. Not to mention I have been running fecals unnecessarily for the most part, but for what I am charged at the vet it is WELL worth it.

 

[DekuScrub]

okay then fellows, educate me. i need information, visual information. if i were to purchase a microscope what am i looking for? and also if at all possible, a chart. i want a chart that shows me what parasites require what treatments, what medication and dosage?

if you can provide this information you will not only attain the sacred reputation of camillionare but the easter bunny will poop chocolates directly into your mouth while you sleep, yesterday morning.

 

[reptilover]

okay ]

if you can provide this information you will not only attain the sacred reputation of camillionare but the easter bunny will poop chocolates directly into your mouth while you sleep, yesterday morning.

Heavens.... Do I wish I had the answer.. anxious to read it aswell! Hope someone posts it soon

 

[xanthoman]

fecal microscopy

not to wave my own flag but i have several years of reptile fecal photomicroscopy as well as other types of microscopy.

i have researched almost every suitable scope under $1000 and have owned several different scopes. in fact i am in the process of buying a new scope. if you want to post or pm your budget, i will be glad to make some recommendations. i would proceed cautiously, buying a scope that is not all that conducive to fecal microscopy is a common mistake first time around.

marginally suitable scopes can be had for less than a $100, but imo you are better off if you could go around a $170. in addition you will need fecasol (fecal float solution), for just starting out you will also need fecalizers, it can be done in a testube but imo fecalizers are probably easier for the beginner. you will also need a box of blank slides, some cover slides, a chart or book of reptile pathology. a collection of pipettes, syringes and needles dont hurt either.

but before you invest you should understand that just having a book or chart of pathology does not necessarily make one qualified to do fecal floats, at least not and get reliable results. it takes practice to properly read fecal floats/smears. i would strongly recommend the ability for photo microscopy because then you can post or pm your results to to get other opinions, you could even share them online with your vet. it doesnt necessarily cost any more to do photomicroscopy, depending on choice of scope.

also another point that imo should not be overlooked, is that you are dealing with pathogenic organisms, most are easily transmissible to humans, so a knowledge of proper handling/sanitization protocol would be a good thing to study before beginning. some reptile pathogens are even capable of entering through the skin. so, imo a little study, practice, advance knowledge and common sense probably not a bad idea either.

you can get small qtys of fecasol and most other supplies through the
http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Reptilestore.html

larger qtys can be had through most biological supply houses.
fecasol and fecalizers as well as slides/cover slides can also usually be had on ebay.

celestron has a good selection of reasonably priced photomicroscopy scopes including 44320,44325,44326,/// the ldm(liquidcrystal display module) lcd scopes like the 44340 is a common recomendation in the $175 price range (the factory listed prices are not realistic), the 44345 is a nicer scope but for $265 you can get an amscope t490A, a well built high quality scope capable of extreme high quality images but photo microscopy would be extra. if you are really serious and $ isnt a huge issue imo, your 2 best choices would be a celestron pentaview $389(my next scope ) or an amscope t490A $265 available from ebay seller precision world, which is a square trade dealer so you can get a greatly extended warranty for cheap.

http://www.celestron.com/science_education/microscopes.html?p=2

ebay is a great place to window shop scopes, but beware the cheaper scopes that are clones of the amscope t490A that look almost identical but they are made in india and have several negative issues, hope that help clear things up. jmo
ps the beautiful dragons store has a laminated color chart of the most common reptile pathogens for $6/// now you know, but i dont want no chocolate suprizes while i am sleeping lol.

 

[DekuScrub]

excellent info xanth glad your back. didnt realize how much a pro you were.

in addition to the fecasol and fecalizers which i assume wont be particularly difficult to attain do you have any particular recommendation on "a chart or book of reptile pathology" is there any particular resource thats a cut above the rest?

 

[coldbloodedAL]

The iID chart on beautiful dragons website is worth the 6 bucks imo... As far as literature goes, the book " Understanding reptile parasites" has been a pretty good read so far, and i think Xanthoman might agree on that

 

[xanthoman]

the eye of xantho

excellent info xanth glad your back. didnt realize how much a pro you were.

in addition to the fecasol and fecalizers which i assume wont be particularly difficult to attain do you have any particular recommendation on "a chart or book of reptile pathology" is there any particular resource thats a cut above the rest?

understanding reptile parasites is a great book, another great book is infectious diseases and pathology of reptile parasites by elliott jacobson but a lot of the info is just ditto of all the other books and it is usually kind of pricey, a lot of really great pics though. imo all you really need to get started is th bd chart because you are imo going to want to study individual pathogens (as you come across them) from a variety of sources anyway.

i'll be posting quite a bit more on microscopy in the mths to come. stay tuned for the eye of xantho.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Like others have said, having a book or chart does not make you an expert. It's not necessarily difficult to do, but you do actually need to know how to do it with consistency and accuracy. Without some training on how to actually do a fecal float correctly and more importantly how to read them you might just be wasting your money. Even if you do find parasite ova and correctly identify them, no vet is going to take your word and just give you the meds you'll need to treat them. So you will need a vet involved regardless.

Even if your local vets don't know much about chameleons they should be able to do a fecal float for you easy. We did 20 or so floats a day in the practice I worked at as a tech.

 

[xanthoman]

about fecal floats

Like others have said, having a book or chart does not make you an expert. It's not necessarily difficult to do, but you do actually need to know how to do it with consistency and accuracy. Without some training on how to actually do a fecal float correctly and more importantly how to read them you might just be wasting your money. Even if you do find parasite ova and correctly identify them, no vet is going to take your word and just give you the meds you'll need to treat them. So you will need a vet involved regardless.

Even if your local vets don't know much about chameleons they should be able to do a fecal float for you easy. We did 20 or so floats a day in the practice I worked at as a tech.

good advice. i'd just like to make clear that i think microscopy is a valuable skill that all cham keepers should have in their tool box, seeing its how it has become so cheap to get into, but to be clear, its not something you become proficient at overnight.

the point being, for somebody just starting out, by all means do fecals and study the issues, but doing fecals because you are curious or trying to learn is one thing, but if your motivation for doing fecals is because your animal is ill, then i would also recommend going through a vet, rather than relying on your own findings.
vets often send fecals out to an independent lab so vet skill isnt necessarily an issue in diagnosis, but of course it IS the issue in treatment.

also i think mention was made earlier of possibly finding a lab that might do them without a vet. i would say unlikely, such labs work primarily at the direction of a licensed vet. practicing fecal floats and offering a diagnosis is part of licensed veterinary medicine, so imo, its unlikely that labs would perform fecals for an independent party, and if they did unless they had a vet on staff, they would be legally barred from offering a diagnosis.
the reason we are able to freely discuss fecals and results on forum is because no money has changed hands.

that being said, there is no reason any person cant do photomicroscopy of any legal substance and even charge for it, as long as they do not offer a diagnosis. but unless they are a licensed vet, they cannot legally charge and offer a diagnosis. jmo

 

[coldbloodedAL]

Some good points made here. I am by far no expert in this as i have only done about 20 fecals myself. But it is a very interesting subject, I look forward to the "eye of xantho"!!!

good advice. i'd just like to make clear that i think microscopy is a valuable skill that all cham keepers should have in their tool box, seeing its how it has become so cheap to get into, but to be clear, its not something you become proficient at overnight.

the point being, for somebody just starting out, by all means do fecals and study the issues, but doing fecals because you are curious or trying to learn is one thing, but if your motivation for doing fecals is because your animal is ill, then i would also recommend going through a vet, rather than relying on your own findings.
vets often send fecals out to an independent lab so vet skill isnt necessarily an issue in diagnosis, but of course it IS the issue in treatment.

also i think mention was made earlier of possibly finding a lab that might do them without a vet. i would say unlikely, such labs work primarily at the direction of a licensed vet. practicing fecal floats and offering a diagnosis is part of licensed veterinary medicine, so imo, its unlikely that labs would perform fecals for an independent party, and if they did unless they had a vet on staff, they would be legally barred from offering a diagnosis.
the reason we are able to freely discuss fecals and results on forum is because no money has changed hands.

that being said, there is no reason any person cant do photomicroscopy of any legal substance and even charge for it, as long as they do not offer a diagnosis. but unless they are a licensed vet, they cannot legally charge and offer a diagnosis. jmo

 

[xanthoman]

the eye of xantho!

I look forward to the "eye of xantho"!!!

so do i, lol!

pathogens is not one of my stronger cham subjects, and much of my microscopy exp is not recent, or cham related, so, just to be clear, not trying to imply expert status myself, however i'm hoping the eye of xantho will change much of that, and promises to be exciting, none the less!