Hera won't eat and is sleeping during the day

[ChameleonAyer]

So Hera, our WC female Ambanja Panther chameleon that we got from Chad, laid 14 eggs on 7/11/09. Yesterday, I caught her sleeping under her basking light and she refused to eat. Today I've only caught her sleeping during the day this morning just after she had been woken up by the lights, and she is still refusing food. This is our first, so I am SUPER SUPER worried about my little girl.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Screened enclosure 24"x24"x48"
Lighting - Reptisun 5.0 UVB (new), 65 W flood light as Basking on at 8am off at 9pm
Temperature - 80-90 deg F in basking spot, rest of cage 70-75. Lowest overnight temp 68. I don't have a therm.
Humidity - I don't know, I mist them 3-4 times per day and all my chams have live plants as the basis of their vegetation in their enclosure.
Plants - yes, hawaiian schefflera
Placement - Bedroom, currently moving, not near any high traffic areas or vents (I do have an overhead fan that I use to circulate the air so it doesn't get stuffy. Cages are on the floor till I finish moving.
Location - Lubbock, TX

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Ambanja Panther, F, 6-9mo (WC so not certain)
Handling - Only when needed or if they crawl out onto my hand when being misted
Feeding - Crickets- As many as she will eat- fed everyday- Cricket crack, and water crystals
Supplements - This is my 2 week dusting schedule:

Mon: Rep-Cal without D3
Tues: Rep-Cal with D3
Wed: Rep-Cal without D3
Thurs: No dusting
Fri: Rep-Cal without D3
Sat: Rep-Cal with D3
Sun: Rep-Cal Herptivite

Mon: Rep-Cal without D3
Tues: Rep-Cal with D3
Wed: Rep-Cal without D3
Thur: No dusting
Fri: Rep-Cal without D3
Sat: Rep-Cal with D3
Sun: NO dusting

Watering - I use a home sprayer that holds 1 Lt. of water. I mist 3-4 times a day for 3 min or more. Yes she drinks A LOT of water
Fecal Description - Brown and solid. She has been treated for parasites recently with:
Panacur: Once for three days repeat in two weeks
Metronidazole: Once every seven days for 2 weeks then repeat in 2 weeks.
History - Just laid 15 eggs 1 was found too late on top of her plants soil.
Current Problem - not eating..... sleeping during


What should I make sure the vet does when I take her in today?

Also, Any suggestions on a therm and something to measure humidity that I don't have to leave in the enclosure would be nice. As I have 6 cages I need to be measuring.


Thanks,
(worried) Amanda

 

[ChameleonAyer]

Photos

here are some photos of her:

 

[kinyonga]

Its possible that she has retained eggs...an xray should show it. She should have gone back to "normal" after laying the eggs.

IMHO you are giving her too much D3...I only use it twice a month.
At that age you should also be able to cut the feeding back to every second day too.
Also, the head pads should be more puffy.

 

[PardalisGirl]

Comments....

Hey Amanda.....what egg laying substrate did you use? Sometimes little bits of substrate can get in the eyes and cause irritation. I had a female Veiled who must have kept her eyes open during the digging process. When she was done she had a bunch of the stuff in her eyes. I had to flush her eyes out with saline for several days in a row before it all came out. She was keeping her eyes closed all the time because the stuff was causing pain and irritation. It was a week before her eyes were totally back to normal. I've never had a female get that much stuff in their eyes before. I always do check the eyes after egg laying. I have rinsed a few other female's eyes out with saline because it looked like there were a few specks in the eye. So....I would have the vet check her eyes for signs of debris and flush them out if he finds any. He will have the correct equipment to do this. It is good that she wants to drink water. She can go a few days without eating, but not drinking.

 

[beeze]

14 eggs doesn't sound like enough.....she could still have more. I would take her to the vet ASAP.

 

[PardalisGirl]

Just saw pictures....

I just saw the pictures after my initial post. I'm not liking the small dots along her tail and back. Those appear during physical illness/stress. I would get her to the vet. Her eyes do look uncomfortable. Other than the small dots, her body weight looks good. Have the vet eliminate the possible eye issue. That would be a simple fix. Egg retention or a burst egg is also possible and would need an x-ray like Kinyongia said. Fifteen eggs is on the low side. There is a good chance that there are more in there. Let us know what the vet says. Will keep her in my prayers. I know you two are devoted to your chams. She is lucky to have keepers who are so responsive to this situation!

 

[ChameleonAyer]

We used a mix of organic soil and play sand.

She laid 15 all together. She is small, so 15 seems like a lot for her. I've felt for more eggs and couldn't feel any.

I'm going to the vet once he gets out of surgery.

Thanks for all the helpful responses

Pic of eye, I couldn't see any dirt but I will have the vet check it out!

 

[beeze]

Hope she will be ok.

 

[CleanLineChameleons]

My first thoughts just looking at her is she has worms. A clear sign of this is the bloated belly and no head caps. I see that you all gave her panacur but she has the worm look to me. I wouldn't suggest giving her all that supps and meds at the same time, I am sure it is hard on her body. Also, how much panacure and how much flagyl did you all give her?

-chris

 

[Rocky]

My first thoughts just looking at her is she has worms. A clear sign of this is the bloated belly and no head caps. I see that you all gave her panacur but she has the worm look to me. I wouldn't suggest giving her all that supps and meds at the same time, I am sure it is hard on her body. Also, how much panacure and how much flagyl did you all give her?

-chris

We are just now using the panacur, they did have worms. I don't remember the exact names of them but he said in the fecal he saw a type of worm and then giardia. We are giving her .02cc of panacur and .04 metronidazole (Flagyl)

 

[PardalisGirl]

Worms.....

Was she gravid when the treatment started? Ask the vet what the "load" was on the parasites. Low, Medium or Heavy. That will give you an idea of what she was/is dealing with. Panacur is fairly benign. Metronidazole can be harsh on the system. Extra hydration is a good idea when treating with that. If she had a heavy load of worms that were killed off all of a sudden that can lead to a toxic situation. They release some sort of toxin during/after death. Not sure of the process but other keepers have had issues with this. Also, the eggs may have issues if she was treated while gravid. Your vet will be able to figure out how this all relates to her present condition.

 

[ChameleonAyer]

Panacur: Once for three days repeat in two weeks
Metronidazole: Once every seven days for 2 weeks then repeat in 2 weeks

....with the dosages above in Rocky's post

Thanks again for all the replies.. we are going to the vet now so I will check post via my iphone.

 

[ChameleonAyer]

What illness would be associated with the dots?

 

[kinyonga]

IMHO the dots are typical of WC's and I don't think they are anything to worry about.

 

[PardalisGirl]

Black dots.....

I've seen those black dots along the tail of wild caughts that were under stress and still in the process of acclimating. The dots disappeared after becoming healthy and acclimated. I've never seen the dots on a captive bred/captive hatched chameleon unless it was ill or under stress. They don't seem to be tied to a particular condition.....just general stress/illness. I've looked at the pictures several times. I do think they are a sign of her condition and I don't think she had them when she was healthy and doing well.

 

[ChameleonAyer]

When Rocky and I first got Hera, Violet, Captain America, and Koa we noticed that both Hera and Violet had dot extending down their spines to the tip of their tails. They also haven't recovered from all the bruising they initially had, but all of it is almost completely gone. Is it possible that the dots could be just natural for them? I will make sure to check both Hera and Violet for them while they are sleeping tonight.

Vet visit: All we had time for today were x-rays so if Hera isn't eating tomorrow, we will be back at the vet again. The x-rays showed no sign that there were any more eggs or other egg issues.

 

[PardalisGirl]

Nice X-rays...

I'm glad you were able to rule out the egg issue. Were you able to find out what kind of load of parasites she was carrying? The reason I ask is that it will give you an idea as to how well her treatments so far would have dealt with the problem. If the load was light I doubt it's causing this problem. If it was heavy it might be the underlying issue.

As to the spots. They may be natural for her for a while at least. I've gotten dozens and dozens of wild caughts over the years. I've never had one that kept those spots when they were fully acclimated and healthy. They were there in the beginning when loaded with parasites and being treated. Or they were there in the beginning because there were initial issues with feeding or drinking. Once the chams were fully acclimated the spots disappeared. I had them appear during serious illnesses too. Anything I am saying is just my experience. I don't know what caused the spots. From what you say about bruising it sounds like she may have had a rough import process.

That, coupled with parasites and the burden of egg development may have caused her to be weakened more than normal by egg laying. Keeping her hydrated and stress free is the most important thing. If her eyes are closed tomorrow and she still does not want to eat I would take her back to the vet.


You asked in your PM about rinsing the eyes. Does she open them at all if you mist her? I have a special smooth ball-tipped stainless steel syringe that I use to rinse out eyes. It can go under the eye turret without scratching. You won't have that tool. You are not going to be able to go directly inside the turret to flush things out. The best that you can do is use an eye dropper to carefully put some plain saline (human kind but not the stuff that cleans contacts) into the eye by dropping it in when her eye is open. She will then close her eye and work things around. This is not the best method of flushing. But it's the only one available with out a tool made for use in eyes. If she keeps her eyes closed tomorrow and you go back to the vet have him do this and scope the eye for scratches. Rather have him scope the eyes first and see if they need to be flushed. You can then rule in or out the eye irratation as the main issue.

Also ask him about her bone density in the x-rays. Since you paid to get the x-ray you might as well get all the info you can from them. I hope she does better tomorrow. Please let us know how she is doing. Will keep her in my prayers!

 

[Rocky]

Well, she's starting to look a lotttt better now. She just started eating again (wax worms) and is alot more active. Anytime we mist her she runs around and drinks like a horse, so we are misting her a lot.

Does anyone think that they can get over hydrated?

 

[PardalisGirl]

How are her eyes?

That's good that she is thirsty. She needs the hydration since she was being treated for parasites. How is the eye situation now?