Help sick panther. Od d3

Lilbitofpuregold

New Member
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? Panther, male, 6 months old, 6 weeks in my care
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? Once a week
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? Crickets and meal worms. Everyday. Using roach chow for gut load
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? I started out with reptical with d3 because that's what i was told. A little over a week ago i switched to reptical wo d3. Herpivite multi on Sundays.
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? Mist king once a day for 1 min before lights come on and i hand mist him once or twice a day. Have a watering fountain.( cleaned out every few days) I've seen him drink but rarely.
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? Green with white urates. Not tested for parasites
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. I have no information
Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?24 x 24x 48 reptibreeze xl with latex backdrop.
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? Lights on from 9 am to 9pm. Reptisun 5.0 linear bar 30 in. Reptisun basking bulb. Not sure the wattage
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? 85 basking and 72 down the bottom layer. No lower than 72 at night. I bought a hat gun to measure.
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?50 to 60% misting, hygometer
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? Live plants, umbrella, money tree, pothos, and a red flower thing that looks like aloe leaves but flat. Sorry can't remember the name.
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? It's in my laundry room, no fans, vents on the other side with the washer dryer, he's on the pantry side in a corner. He is on top of a small wooden table so he is a good 2 to 3 feet above my head. At his basking spot. Bottom of cage is 3 and half feet above floor
Location - Where are you geographically located? Oklahoma
Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about. So i messed up and was giving him d3 everyday because that is what the pet store told me to do. I took him to a exotic emergency room last night and still have no information. They have me liquid cal .03 every 24. They didn't do xrays which i asked about and they said he didn't need them. He is curled into a ball and grabbing his tail and legs with his feet. Which is a sign of mbd. He can't hang on to his tree and i made him a hospital box. His spine is all twisted it happened in less than 24 hrs. He isn't eating or drinking so i force fed last night and used a syringe for water. Will he straiten up or is he stuck twisted up? I worry about his quality of life.
 

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ERKleRose

Chameleon Enthusiast
I won’t be able to go through this until I’m free hopefully by late afternoon. If no one’s gone through it by then, I will.
 

nightanole

Chameleon Enthusiast
RepCal D3 400,000 IU/kg
Flukers Reptacalcium 100,000 IU/lb
Exoterra 14,740 IU/lb
ZooMed ReptiCalcium 22,907 IU/kg
Mineral -indoor 2000ui per kg
Repashy calcium plus LoD 20,000iu/kg

Yup that way too much. Most of us are using the 20,000 stuff, twice a month.

He doesnt have MBD and doesnt need calcium. Hes got muscle/nerv issues till the assumed D3 and or calcium/phosphorus is flushed from his system.

And i assume the linear repisun 5.0 is a T5HO...


Personally id drop all supplements, and just keep him in the bin with an air temp of 80f, and keep him hydrated. This the standard "sick tank" procedure.


You can sun him if you want, as he can use sun to break down certain excess D3.
 

MissSkittles

Chameleon Enthusiast
Putting my feedback in red.
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? Panther, male, 6 months old, 6 weeks in my care
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? Once a week
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? Crickets and meal worms. Everyday. Using roach chow for gut load Attaching feeder and gutloading graphics. I don’t specifically gutload. I do keep my feeder buggies well fed and healthy with fresh produce and Bug Burger, to which I’ve added bee pollen and spirulina.
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? I started out with reptical with d3 because that's what i was told. A little over a week ago i switched to reptical wo d3. Herpivite multi on Sundays. So your little guy has gotten too much vitamin D3. It’s a fat soluble vitamin so his body hangs on to it for a long time. Do not give him any more D3 until he’s made a full recovery. Multivitamin should be given one feeding every other week. More on supplements at the end.
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? Mist king once a day for 1 min before lights come on and i hand mist him once or twice a day. Have a watering fountain.( cleaned out every few days) I've seen him drink but rarely. Increase your misting to at least 2 minutes, at least twice a day...early in the morning and later in the evening. For mid day you could either add an additional misting or add a dripper to run for around 30 minutes. Get the fountain out. Even though you clean it, it’s an unnecessary risk. Many chameleons are secretive about drinking. Go by urates to determine hydration.
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? Green with white urates. Not tested for parasites Green is not a healthy color. I strongly suggest taking a fresh fecal sample to your vet to have tested for parasites. As you’ve already been to the vet, they should not require another visit for this.
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. I have no information
Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?24 x 24x 48 reptibreeze xl with latex backdrop. Excellent
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? Lights on from 9 am to 9pm. Reptisun 5.0 linear bar 30 in. Excellent. The uvb will need to be changed every 6 months. I suggest at that time getting Arcadia 6% uvb bulb as they are good for a year. Reptisun basking bulb. Not sure the wattage
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? 85 basking and 72 down the bottom layer. No lower than 72 at night. I bought a hat gun to measure. Good! I would suggest getting a digital thermometer with a probe as well. Temp guns can only measure surfaces and not air. Basking area may be hotter than 85, which you would not want.
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?50 to 60% misting, hygometer Perfect!
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? Live plants, umbrella, money tree, pothos, and a red flower thing that looks like aloe leaves but flat. Sorry can't remember the name. Perfect!
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? It's in my laundry room, no fans, vents on the other side with the washer dryer, he's on the pantry side in a corner. He is on top of a small wooden table so he is a good 2 to 3 feet above my head. At his basking spot. Bottom of cage is 3 and half feet above floor Perfect! They feel safest when they are high above us.
Location - Where are you geographically located? Oklahoma
Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about. So i messed up and was giving him d3 everyday because that is what the pet store told me to do. I took him to a exotic emergency room last night and still have no information. They have me liquid cal .03 every 24. They didn't do xrays which i asked about and they said he didn't need them. He is curled into a ball and grabbing his tail and legs with his feet. Which is a sign of mbd. He can't hang on to his tree and i made him a hospital box. His spine is all twisted it happened in less than 24 hrs. He isn't eating or drinking so i force fed last night and used a syringe for water. Will he straiten up or is he stuck twisted up? I worry about his quality of life.
So mbd is not the issue...it is actually vitamin D3 toxicity. Many of the symptoms are similar as both are related to Vitamin D3 and it’s effects on muscles and the neurological systems. This will help explain it. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/d3-poisoning.2401/ I don’t think the effects will be permanent, but I can’t say he won’t have no after-effects. Honestly, I just don’t know a whole lot about this. I do know that he needs lots of time for the D3 to get out of his system. Nightanole just posted what you should be doing.
Once the D3 has gotten out of his system completely and he’s made a full recovery, you’ll want to use the following supplement schedule: calcium without D3 at every feeding except one per week. That one weekly feeding you’ll alternate between using a calcium with D3 and then the next week a multivitamin that does not have D3.

966D2A01-0746-47B4-9F82-2DB53F3B799F.jpeg
3879E27C-9FF9-413F-A2BD-5CBFB4FCEDA0.jpeg
 

Lilbitofpuregold

New Member
RepCal D3 400,000 IU/kg
Flukers Reptacalcium 100,000 IU/lb
Exoterra 14,740 IU/lb
ZooMed ReptiCalcium 22,907 IU/kg
Mineral -indoor 2000ui per kg
Repashy calcium plus LoD 20,000iu/kg

Yup that way too much. Most of us are using the 20,000 stuff, twice a month.

He doesnt have MBD and doesnt need calcium. Hes got muscle/nerv issues till the assumed D3 and or calcium/phosphorus is flushed from his system.

And i assume the linear repisun 5.0 is a T5HO...


Personally id drop all supplements, and just keep him in the bin with an air temp of 80f, and keep him hydrated. This the standard "sick tank" procedure.


You can sun him if you want, as he can use sun to break down certain excess D3.
Are nerve and muscle problems reversable i did take him out in the sun today for a bit. . The vet was clueless and not any help. And it's the only reptile vet anywhere close to me and i had to drive 2 hours to get there. I'd the risk outweigh the benefits with not doing the liquid calcium. I found out last week how to properly supplement and he wasn't even showing symtoms. But i guess it was just too late.
 

MissSkittles

Chameleon Enthusiast
Are nerve and muscle problems reversable i did take him out in the sun today for a bit. . The vet was clueless and not any help. And it's the only reptile vet anywhere close to me and i had to drive 2 hours to get there. I'd the risk outweigh the benefits with not doing the liquid calcium. I found out last week how to properly supplement and he wasn't even showing symtoms. But i guess it was just too late.
I do seem to recall something about taking a cham that’s had too much vit D3 in the sun, but I don’t want to give wrong advice. I’m going to have to call in other members who can be of more help than I. In things like this, I lack experience & knowledge. @kinyonga @JacksJill @jannb
 

Lilbitofpuregold

New Member
Putting my feedback in red.
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? Panther, male, 6 months old, 6 weeks in my care
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? Once a week
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? Crickets and meal worms. Everyday. Using roach chow for gut load Attaching feeder and gutloading graphics. I don’t specifically gutload. I do keep my feeder buggies well fed and healthy with fresh produce and Bug Burger, to which I’ve added bee pollen and spirulina.
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? I started out with reptical with d3 because that's what i was told. A little over a week ago i switched to reptical wo d3. Herpivite multi on Sundays. So your little guy has gotten too much vitamin D3. It’s a fat soluble vitamin so his body hangs on to it for a long time. Do not give him any more D3 until he’s made a full recovery. Multivitamin should be given one feeding every other week. More on supplements at the end.
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? Mist king once a day for 1 min before lights come on and i hand mist him once or twice a day. Have a watering fountain.( cleaned out every few days) I've seen him drink but rarely. Increase your misting to at least 2 minutes, at least twice a day...early in the morning and later in the evening. For mid day you could either add an additional misting or add a dripper to run for around 30 minutes. Get the fountain out. Even though you clean it, it’s an unnecessary risk. Many chameleons are secretive about drinking. Go by urates to determine hydration.
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? Green with white urates. Not tested for parasites Green is not a healthy color. I strongly suggest taking a fresh fecal sample to your vet to have tested for parasites. As you’ve already been to the vet, they should not require another visit for this.
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. I have no information
Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?24 x 24x 48 reptibreeze xl with latex backdrop. Excellent
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? Lights on from 9 am to 9pm. Reptisun 5.0 linear bar 30 in. Excellent. The uvb will need to be changed every 6 months. I suggest at that time getting Arcadia 6% uvb bulb as they are good for a year. Reptisun basking bulb. Not sure the wattage
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? 85 basking and 72 down the bottom layer. No lower than 72 at night. I bought a hat gun to measure. Good! I would suggest getting a digital thermometer with a probe as well. Temp guns can only measure surfaces and not air. Basking area may be hotter than 85, which you would not want.
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?50 to 60% misting, hygometer Perfect!
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? Live plants, umbrella, money tree, pothos, and a red flower thing that looks like aloe leaves but flat. Sorry can't remember the name. Perfect!
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? It's in my laundry room, no fans, vents on the other side with the washer dryer, he's on the pantry side in a corner. He is on top of a small wooden table so he is a good 2 to 3 feet above my head. At his basking spot. Bottom of cage is 3 and half feet above floor Perfect! They feel safest when they are high above us.
Location - Where are you geographically located? Oklahoma
Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about. So i messed up and was giving him d3 everyday because that is what the pet store told me to do. I took him to a exotic emergency room last night and still have no information. They have me liquid cal .03 every 24. They didn't do xrays which i asked about and they said he didn't need them. He is curled into a ball and grabbing his tail and legs with his feet. Which is a sign of mbd. He can't hang on to his tree and i made him a hospital box. His spine is all twisted it happened in less than 24 hrs. He isn't eating or drinking so i force fed last night and used a syringe for water. Will he straiten up or is he stuck twisted up? I worry about his quality of life.
So mbd is not the issue...it is actually vitamin D3 toxicity. Many of the symptoms are similar as both are related to Vitamin D3 and it’s effects on muscles and the neurological systems. This will help explain it. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/d3-poisoning.2401/ I don’t think the effects will be permanent, but I can’t say he won’t have no after-effects. Honestly, I just don’t know a whole lot about this. I do know that he needs lots of time for the D3 to get out of his system. Nightanole just posted what you should be doing.
Once the D3 has gotten out of his system completely and he’s made a full recovery, you’ll want to use the following supplement schedule: calcium without D3 at every feeding except one per week. That one weekly feeding you’ll alternate between using a calcium with D3 and then the next week a multivitamin that does not have D3.

View attachment 300556View attachment 300557
Thank you that's exactly what i was thinking it was. I feel so bad i messed up so bad. I was just doing what i was told was right. Lots of misinformation out there. I just doggies out what i was doing wrong to late. He's a gorgeous creature and i just don't want him suffering
 

nightanole

Chameleon Enthusiast
Are nerve and muscle problems reversable i did take him out in the sun today for a bit. . The vet was clueless and not any help. And it's the only reptile vet anywhere close to me and i had to drive 2 hours to get there. I'd the risk outweigh the benefits with not doing the liquid calcium. I found out last week how to properly supplement and he wasn't even showing symtoms. But i guess it was just too late.

Nerve and muscle problem will go away, it is not permanent. Its not even "damage". It should only take a few days. It goes away much quicker than edema.
 

MissSkittles

Chameleon Enthusiast
Oh no! 😢 I am so very sorry. Unfortunately chameleons don’t show any signs that anything is wrong until whatever it is has progressed until it can be too late. Don’t beat yourself up. You did what you were told was right. It is whomever that provided you the wrong information that deserves all the blame. There’s so very much misinformation out there on not just keeping chameleons, but all reptiles and it’s very hard to figure out which is correct. Keep him in your heart and I wish you much peace.
 

Lilbitofpuregold

New Member
Thanks. I'm just glad he's not suffering. But i definately learned something. D3 is no joke. My husband told me he would help me disinfect the cage and the plants and everything and get everything ready and he will get me a another one. Def won't mess up again for sure. I'm pretty sure everything else i was doing was right except im going to take out the fountain. Thanks everyone for your help. Just wish i could of caught it in time.
 

ERKleRose

Chameleon Enthusiast
Thanks. I'm just glad he's not suffering. But i definately learned something. D3 is no joke. My husband told me he would help me disinfect the cage and the plants and everything and get everything ready and he will get me a another one. Def won't mess up again for sure. I'm pretty sure everything else i was doing was right except im going to take out the fountain. Thanks everyone for your help. Just wish i could of caught it in time.
If you want us to over your husbandry to make sure everything is at 100% for your next one (I'm so sorry about your previous one!), let us know! Just fill out the form from here (in as much detail as possible- including pics of the entire enclsoure and lights) and put the filled out form either on here or in a new thread!
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/
 
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