Help needed

[PabloTheCham]

The cham can and WILL climb the screen cages. Which both you and him have, and sometimes they will hang on the ceiling below the light, like Kin said above.

Yea, they will climb the screen cage... but it's not a screen cage.
The background is of an unknown material, and the other side looks like glass. The reason posted that, is because i don't know what the background is made of, and if it is a material he can't climb, then the lamp can stay. I know the lamp should move if he can get to it, my question was just whether or not he can climb the sides.

Why did you even buy a 4 foot cage? If your basking branch is 14 inches from the top, and you have plant pots that are 10 inches tall, you dont have 4ft cage area, you have 2ft cage and 2ft of wasted space, by doing things wrong.

I don't get it. I have a branch that leads to a basking spot. All of my branches aren't far from the top. As you can see in the picture above, I had the basking spot be in a little clearing of branches, with other branches higher up, and some lower than that one. i just made that branch be at that specific altitude.

A well optimized (Like above) 36 tall cage, has more usable space then the 4ft cage in the above scenario.

Yeah, in theory. But the chameleon doesn't actually go everywhere in the cage. It only stays in the midsection and top of the cage, since it is not in their nature to use the bottom of the cage. So even if there is more space, in will not be used, since chams seldom leave the top of their enclosure. My cham stays at the top of the enclosure, and only goes to the middle to sleep. The cage could have the bottom 10 inches be gone, since he doesn't go there. It doesn't matter if you save a few inches at the bottom by going bioactive, since these few inches are never going to be used. Going bioactive is very useful in other aspects, just not this one

 

[cyberlocc]

Yea, they will climb the screen cage... but it's not a screen cage.
The background is of an unknown material, and the other side looks like glass. The reason posted that, is because i don't know what the background is made of, and if it is a material he can't climb, then the lamp can stay. I know the lamp should move if he can get to it, my question was just whether or not he can climb the sides.

Well the material for the background is foam, its the basic background that comes with exoterra tanks, its the cheap 1 foam like you get in shipping materials, with it carved and some paint lol. Yes a chameleon can 100% climb it, as well as easily shred it apart and stick their nails into it.

On my phone and a quick look, I seen the reflection and that looked like screen, your right though its a glass Vivarium, the background says likely an exoterra (also the roof says exoterra), which leads to another possible issue to be fair.

Not saying for certain, BUT, that particular background is *usually* only shipped with 24 tall Exoterras AFAIK, and OP thats not big enough for a chameleon. Exoterra has gotten very good about background choices, and 36 tall vivs, have Tree/Bamboo backgrounds, not rock. Rock can be bought separate, so its possible they shipped some with rock, I just have never seen them.

I don't get it. I have a branch that leads to a basking spot. All of my branches aren't far from the top. As you can see in the picture above, I had the basking spot be in a little clearing of branches, with other branches higher up, and some lower than that one. i just made that branch be at that specific altitude.

Right again, "Not saying you, or picking on you, just in general, do not understand the mindset of a 14 inch down basking branch and 10 inch pots."

IN General, Branches should reach close to the top, and due to that, lights should not ever be set on the top IMO.

Yeah, in theory. But the chameleon doesn't actually go everywhere in the cage. It only stays in the midsection and top of the cage, since it is not in their nature to use the bottom of the cage. So even if there is more space, in will not be used, since chams seldom leave the top of their enclosure. My cham stays at the top of the enclosure, and only goes to the middle to sleep. The cage could have the bottom 10 inches be gone, since he doesn't go there. It doesn't matter if you save a few inches at the bottom by going bioactive, since these few inches are never going to be used. Going bioactive is very useful in other aspects, just not this one

Thats not completely true. Some Chameleons quite often go to the bottom. Females go to the bottom to lay, some go to the bottom to catch prey, some go down to explore. Do they do it all the time, no, but they do do it.

Also if you remove the bottom 10 inches of the cage, you have also shortened the mid section by quite a bit. 6 inches saved on the bottom, is 6 more inches of midsection in reality. Let me show you.

Your chameleon doesn't go lower than the 10 inch pots? So you assume they wont. Well thats just not true, if it was then why cover the soil? They dont go to the soil right? Except they do, especially the common ones we keep, Panthers and I am pretty sure Veilieds, are bush chameleons, they do not live in 20 ft tall trees. They live in 5-6 foot shrubs, and go to the ground to change shrubs, among other reasons. If you have no branches leading down, or 10 inch tall "pots" that barely allow them walking space, how could they go there? Build a bio-active 4x2 of floor space, with dirt they can actually move around on, and you will see them go down there more often. They wont sit down there, for sure. However if given a large enclosure with bio floor, they surely will do their "Laps" once in awhile to the bottom, and regulate their space. Might be some bugs down their causing trouble with their poop eaters, they got to regulate .


Lets not confuse, I dont have branches in the lower 24 inches as they wont go there, because they will if they have highways to do so. They will use any cage space they are allotted, quite often, if given it, if given only 2 branches that is all they will use. More branches, more exercise, and exploration.

"These few inches dont make a difference", well if that were true, why is 48 inches suggested and not 36? That is more than half the size difference between the heights. Which is how Glass makes up for being a max of 36 tall.

More than cage depth that we think about however, physical height is the actual most important. A 36 inch cage, as depicted above, assuming same width/depth on a 3ft stand, is vastly superior to a 48 inch on the floor. The animal doesn't care where the soil is, they care to be where they can look down on predators to feel safe. As you said its not in common nature, to go low, however that has ZERO to do with soil, and more to do with actual height especially above perceived predators.

At the end of the day, a 48 tall cage with a 14 inch branch from the top, and 10 inches pots isnt hurting anything, its a common layout. 36 inch cage is also okay, especially with a better layout (Bio / Higher branches). The point was, that having the bulb on the screen is not only dangerous, but that layout wastes space. If your going to have a 4ft cage, why waste space? Especially when nothing is gained by doing so.

 

[PabloTheCham]

Well the material for the background is foam, its the basic background that comes with exoterra tanks, its the cheap 1 foam like you get in shipping materials, with it carved and some paint lol. Yes a chameleon can 100% climb it, as well as easily shred it apart and stick their nails into it.

On my phone and a quick look, I seen the reflection and that looked like screen, your right though its a glass Vivarium, the background says likely an exoterra (also the roof says exoterra), which leads to another possible issue to be fair.

Not saying for certain, BUT, that particular background is *usually* only shipped with 24 tall Exoterras AFAIK, and OP thats not big enough for a chameleon. Exoterra has gotten very good about background choices, and 36 tall vivs, have Tree/Bamboo backgrounds, not rock. Rock can be bought separate, so its possible they shipped some with rock, I just have never seen them.




Right again, "Not saying you, or picking on you, just in general, do not understand the mindset of a 14 inch down basking branch and 10 inch pots."

IN General, Branches should reach close to the top, and due to that, lights should not ever be set on the top IMO.



Thats not completely true. Some Chameleons quite often go to the bottom. Females go to the bottom to lay, some go to the bottom to catch prey, some go down to explore. Do they do it all the time, no, but they do do it.

Also if you remove the bottom 10 inches of the cage, you have also shortened the mid section by quite a bit. 6 inches saved on the bottom, is 6 more inches of midsection in reality. Let me show you.
View attachment 262768

Your chameleon doesn't go lower than the 10 inch pots? So you assume they wont. Well thats just not true, if it was then why cover the soil? They dont go to the soil right? Except they do, especially the common ones we keep, Panthers and I am pretty sure Veilieds, are bush chameleons, they do not live in 20 ft tall trees. They live in 5-6 foot shrubs, and go to the ground to change shrubs, among other reasons. If you have no branches leading down, or 10 inch tall "pots" that barely allow them walking space, how could they go there? Build a bio-active 4x2 of floor space, with dirt they can actually move around on, and you will see them go down there more often. They wont sit down there, for sure. However if given a large enclosure with bio floor, they surely will do their "Laps" once in awhile to the bottom, and regulate their space. Might be some bugs down their causing trouble with their poop eaters, they got to regulate .


Lets not confuse, I dont have branches in the lower 24 inches as they wont go there, because they will if they have highways to do so. They will use any cage space they are allotted, quite often, if given it, if given only 2 branches that is all they will use. More branches, more exercise, and exploration.

"These few inches dont make a difference", well if that were true, why is 48 inches suggested and not 36? That is more than half the size difference between the heights. Which is how Glass makes up for being a max of 36 tall.

More than cage depth that we think about however, physical height is the actual most important. A 36 inch cage, as depicted above, assuming same width/depth on a 3ft stand, is vastly superior to a 48 inch on the floor. The animal doesn't care where the soil is, they care to be where they can look down on predators to feel safe. As you said its not in common nature, to go low, however that has ZERO to do with soil, and more to do with actual height especially above perceived predators.

At the end of the day, a 48 tall cage with a 14 inch branch from the top, and 10 inches pots isnt hurting anything, its a common layout. 36 inch cage is also okay, especially with a better layout (Bio / Higher branches). The point was, that having the bulb on the screen is not only dangerous, but that layout wastes space. If your going to have a 4ft cage, why waste space? Especially when nothing is gained by doing so.

Can you post a pic of your enclosure(s)? Just curious as to how you have them set up. I would like to go bioactive some time soon, but it seems complicated.

 

[cyberlocc]

Can you post a pic of your enclosure(s)? Just curious as to how you have them set up. I would like to go bioactive some time soon, but it seems complicated.

My large panther viv setup.

Spoiler: Show Pics

Still relatively new, only about 6 month setup still growing in. The draecena is growing much slower than I would like, as is the Maddy Jasmine.

In a normal situation, you would already have a Ficus, Umbrella or whatever. So this is kind of apples to oranges, as it's a "Biome" every plant in this vivarium is Madagascar native.

Hard to take a pi, thats *most* the viv. I woke my guy up, flipping the lights on, so didn't want to fight him too much lol. I kept forgetting to snap pic on new phone.

Anyway, its wider than that. By probably 6-8 inches of right side, the feeder cup on the right is not in the pic, so that is a easy way to tell lol.

Total viv size is 4ft" wide, 27" inches deep, and 54" Usable height (soil to screen).

Now when I woke him up, he started moving about, so let's play follow the chameleon lol.

My large branch is 10 inches from the roof, however that's for the vines to grow, and I had orchids on the back wall, but they didn't get enough mist and I need to replace them. My cage is 54 inches tall, to accommodate that as well. He can and does also climb the walls to get higher if he wishes due to the 300 worth of cork bark lol, so I'm glad he uses it.

If you look close on the lower down pic, you can see the vine likes to grab the screen and ride along the top, which is why I left the 10 inch drop to branch (10inch on the left side, the branch is curved it gets lower, then higher on the right, to 5 inches from screen). Since that branch is screwed in, with 2 screws and 4 nails, I can't raise it either lol.

This is how far he got while I was taking the doors off (large glass sliding doors)

You can see the "liana" wood where his tail is, thats 14 inches long, back wall to side horizontal, where he was sleeping tonight.

Where did he go, let's see.

Getting lower.


Getting lower.

My tiny draecena (it actually just finally started growing thanks gosh! So did the jasmine) to scale, thats like 7 inches tall, so he is 3 inches from the soil, tops. He does go onto, the soil, but rarely

(well leaf litter, he usually has a nice layer of leaf litter, but I yanked it to feed the beetles, got more from Josh's frogs coming tomorrow in largish order he doesn't eat soil, so no concern).

And he sat there for a min, as I let him try to get back settled to go back to bed (his lights out was 30 mins before this, his mister just went off 5 mins before you asked for the night mist)

Where he ended up, before I lights out again, and used my phone flash to help him find a sleeping spot.

Spoiled to not take over OPs thread, with 54k warning.

 

[PabloTheCham]

My large panther viv setup.

Spoiler: Show Pics

Still relatively new, only about 6 month setup still growing in. The draecena is growing much slower than I would like, as is the Maddy Jasmine.

In a normal situation, you would already have a Ficus, Umbrella or whatever. So this is kind of apples to oranges, as it's a "Biome" every plant in this vivarium is Madagascar native.

View attachment 262806

Hard to take a pi, thats *most* the viv. I woke my guy up, flipping the lights on, so didn't want to fight him too much lol. I kept forgetting to snap pic on new phone.

Anyway, its wider than that. By probably 6-8 inches of right side, the feeder cup on the right is not in the pic, so that is a easy way to tell lol.

Total viv size is 4ft" wide, 27" inches deep, and 54" Usable height (soil to screen).

Now when I woke him up, he started moving about, so let's play follow the chameleon lol.

My large branch is 10 inches from the roof, however that's for the vines to grow, and I had orchids on the back wall, but they didn't get enough mist and I need to replace them. My cage is 54 inches tall, to accommodate that as well. He can and does also climb the walls to get higher if he wishes due to the 300 worth of cork bark lol, so I'm glad he uses it.

If you look close on the lower down pic, you can see the vine likes to grab the screen and ride along the top, which is why I left the 10 inch drop to branch (10inch on the left side, the branch is curved it gets lower, then higher on the right, to 5 inches from screen). Since that branch is screwed in, with 2 screws and 4 nails, I can't raise it either lol.


View attachment 262807

This is how far he got while I was taking the doors off (large glass sliding doors)

You can see the "liana" wood where his tail is, thats 14 inches long, back wall to side horizontal, where he was sleeping tonight.

Where did he go, let's see.

View attachment 262808

Getting lower.

View attachment 262806View attachment 262807View attachment 262808

Getting lower.

View attachment 262809

My tiny draecena (it actually just finally started growing thanks gosh! So did the jasmine) to scale, thats like 7 inches tall, so he is 3 inches from the soil, tops. He does go onto, the soil, but rarely

(well leaf litter, he usually has a nice layer of leaf litter, but I yanked it to feed the beetles, got more from Josh's frogs coming tomorrow in largish order he doesn't eat soil, so no concern).

And he sat there for a min, as I let him try to get back settled to go back to bed (his lights out was 30 mins before this, his mister just went off 5 mins before you asked for the night mist)

View attachment 262810

Where he ended up, before I lights out again, and used my phone flash to help him find a sleeping spot.

Spoiled to not take over OPs thread, with 54k warning.

Really nice setups!
Just a thought, why should we cover our chams soil with river rocks, when in bioactive setups they have all the soil they can eat?

 

[cyberlocc]

Really nice setups!
Just a thought, why should we cover our chams soil with river rocks, when in bioactive setups they have all the soil they can eat?

People say to do that, because they will eat the soil.

I don't do that personally, I have never had an issue with a cham or eating reptile eating soil, and not passing it, but I guess uts possible, so it's really just a precaution I guess.

However I agree, Biochams, have no soil issues usually, nor do wild ones. A healthy hydrated cham, should be able to pass "Insert soil component here" most of the time, but in the rare case they cant, people are leary of.

 

[kinyonga]

Potting soil in plant pots may have fertilizer in it or those little white pellets...so it's thought that it's better that chameleons don't eat it. Hopefully whatever you used in bio active setups doesn't have fertilizer or pellets in it. Just my 2 cents worth. It's more veileds that you have to worry about eating the soil in my experience anyway.