Help. I am ready to give up here.

SaintJimmy

Avid Member
I have had monty since I joined this forum..

We of course "rescued" him from petco.

He had mbd and a deformed casque. He is VERY grumpy and cannot be handled much.

I have been supplementing him with vitamins every month. d3 cal 2 times a month and cal at close to every feeding..

His MBD has NOT improved and he is grumpier than ever.

I have not noticed him drinking recently when normally he will drink comfortably in front of me..

He does NOT eat as much. He sees the crickets in the corners of his enclosure which can easily be reached but never goes and gets them.

He only eats but is reluctant... when I hand feed him. I extra dust the hand fed ones to make sure he gets cal.

He is starting to fall.

He falls maybe 3 times a day now. I am very concerned.

We are in no shape to take him to a vet. Money is VERY tight

I am supplementing him right. The temps are right.

Plenty of branches. Lots of foliage!

Plenty of water 4 times a day and dry periods.

UVB and a 65 watt bulb as a heat lamp since ours broke and as far as I am concerned this is totally fine.

He is in his 4 foot cage too.

WTF monty

:( I really need advice guys. I am literally mimicking your guys great enclosures, habits, tricks, tips... I am very gentle with him and almost enver hold him.

I always approach from underneath to feed and stay away from him when I mist so he does not cower under leaves but sometimes I feel like he isnt getting moisture so I lightly mist him

I read the caresheets over and over and over and everything is perfect

Why isn't he healing?
 

peacenlove

New Member
by reading your post it sounds like you have done everything you possibly could for him, sometimes animals just dont have the strength to carry on. its very sad and given that he had mbd before you got him its possible it progressed. dont blame yourself from what i read i can tell you are very passionate about him and your trying your hardest i dont know much about mbd ive never dealt with it but from my understanding what your doing is the best thing to do for him. maybe you could call a vet and talk to a vet over the phone i know sometimes they can give you advise... i hope all goes well im sorry your going through that its so hard to watch a animal get worse, i have three pets ive rescued quite a few pets from chameleons to tortoises, its tough but dont give up your doing everything you can :) hope all goes well <3
 

SaintJimmy

Avid Member
by reading your post it sounds like you have done everything you possibly could for him, sometimes animals just dont have the strength to carry on. its very sad and given that he had mbd before you got him its possible it progressed. dont blame yourself from what i read i can tell you are very passionate about him and your trying your hardest i dont know much about mbd ive never dealt with it but from my understanding what your doing is the best thing to do for him. maybe you could call a vet and talk to a vet over the phone i know sometimes they can give you advise... i hope all goes well im sorry your going through that its so hard to watch a animal get worse, i have three pets ive rescued quite a few pets from chameleons to tortoises, its tough but dont give up your doing everything you can :) hope all goes well <3

I just wish I could start over with a healthy cham. Or even something else that would live in the enclosure. Ever since I got him I love my little boy but he is such a pain in the *** it is horrible.

Amazing entertaining pet and he is so cool but really expensive and delicate.

It has been around 5 months of owning him. He hates me. He is sick. He wont heal. He is expensive. Its just all cons except he is cute and I love him :(
 

kokom05lb

New Member
First off, I'm really sorry about your little guy. I wish this on no one andpray that he gets better.

Second, veileds are naturally an aggressive and very terrorial and he's hurting. So he may not hate you, he just wants to be left alone because he hurts. It took my boy Ringo (when I had him) almost 9 months to get use to us, then family issues took place and had to rehome him :(.

Don't give up on him and don't give up on the love for chameleons. Yes they are expensive but so is everything else in this crazy world.

I wish you and your boy the best of luck. Fortunately I haven't had dealt with MBD so I cant give advice about it. :(
 

SaintJimmy

Avid Member
First off, I'm really sorry about your little guy. I wish this on no one andpray that he gets better.

Second, veileds are naturally an aggressive and very terrorial and he's hurting. So he may not hate you, he just wants to be left alone because he hurts. It took my boy Ringo (when I had him) almost 9 months to get use to us, then family issues took place and had to rehome him :(.

Don't give up on him and don't give up on the love for chameleons. Yes they are expensive but so is everything else in this crazy world.

I wish you and your boy the best of luck. Fortunately I haven't had dealt with MBD so I cant give advice about it. :(

Sigh I wish I could have gotten a different one though.. He is just irritable. I mean don't get me wrong I love him but I'm just done.

I hope we can get him to heal ugh
 

SaintJimmy

Avid Member
Sorry your going though this. If I had some babies I'd give you one free of charge :)

If you do breed give me a message if you are planning on having babies. I'd be more than willing to pay too.

You know if Monty does not pull through I will be so very sad. I wish to go to the reptile super show and buy an adult if possible though if I need a replacement.

I do not hope he dies in any way but I just hope he lives and eventually comes to get used to me but I guess not.
 

Lovereps

Avid Member
Sorry you and Monty are having xuch a hard time.:(

To quote from the excellent MBD sticky by Ferretinmyshoes (underlining done by me.):
"Metabolic bone disease takes a long time to develop, and conversely takes a long time to resolve. Correcting your husbandry and providing adequate calcium, nutrition through gutloading, and UVB is the first critical step. However, the deficit of calcium needs to be addressed with additional supplementation before the body can function normally and begin to heal. A small drop of liquid calcium (without D3) can be given twice daily for a month to replace the calcium deficit. A vet may have to give injectable calcium to replace the deficit in more than mild cases. UVB, especially in the form of unfiltered sunlight, is essential."

Full post here:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/what-metabolic-bone-disease-mbd-looks-like-how-happens-how-fix-95071/

There have been some chams which just have very high calcium needs and need more calcium than normal to cure and stave off MBD.

Just to be sure, is the UVB bulb within a few inxhes of him? Is it only passing through screen, not glass or plastic?
Also possible is a defective bulb.
If temps allow--hours of safe outdoor time will enable him to produce all the UVB his body needs.

Of course, it may not be MBD at this point.
Dehydration causes falling and discoordination, too---and you've mentioned he may not be drinking enough.


Has he ever been checked for parasites?

I ask because I seem to recall reading that certain parasites can be a cause of dehydration and IIRC, MBD. They would need to be eradicated in order for the MBD or dehydration to resolve.

Perhaps one of the vets will see your post and add their thoughts, too.

As for temperment, males are not often "sweet" and some are downright mean.
 

Olimpia

Biologist & Ecologist
I'm so sorry you're feeling so discouraged. It's hard, I know. If you saw the thread about my melleri, you'll know that I've also been treating her for months so I understand how long and heartbreaking it can be.

I'm on my tablet and can't type very well on it, but I would recommend that you modify his enclosure so it's more horizontal. Perhaps flip the cage onto its side, becUse with MBD he's running the risk of breaking things every time he falls. So I'd make everything low to the ground, and with towels or the like lining the floor until we can figure out how to get him more stable.

If it would make you feel better I'd be happy to talk to you via phone and brainstorm some ideas with you. PM me if you'd like to!
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
Just supplementing properly is not enough IMHO to correct it....it's intended to keep it from coming back once it's been corrected.

To correct it you need to give him extra calcium until you get it in balance....but the quickest way to get it back in balance is to have a vet give him calcium injections until the blood calcium levels are high enough to give him an injection of calcitonin to draw the calcium back into the bones rapidly.

When they have low calcium it also affects other systems in the chameleon so there are often other things wrong too.
 

ferretinmyshoes

Veterinarian
Staff member
Hi Saint,
You are supplementing correctly...for an already healthy chameleon. The standard supplementation is to keep up with the daily maintenance needs of a chameleon that is already healthy. A chameleon with MBD starts off with an overall deficiency in calcium, so the maintenance needs are not going to be enough to support daily needs as well as make up what is missing. It's like trying to fill an empty sink with water but the drain is open - you keep pouring water in, but it's draining faster than it can fill up because the sink started off empty. Whereas if you start with a sink already full of water and then pull the drain as you start pouring in water it's going to keep its water level much easier.

So while you are supplementing you haven't replaced the deficit of calcium from the MBD so you're not actually treating it, just keeping your chameleon alive by meeting its daily needs. Lovereps posted the link to my thread about the mechanism behind MBD and how to treat it. Liquid calcium syrup is higher concentration so it will actually replace the deficit, and then you continue to supplement with calcium to meet daily needs in addition to the deficit replacement so there is enough to heal the bones and replace the stores as well as for regular function. This may still be able to be cured without a vet visit, or it may not be. But I would definitely get the calcium syrup of calcium glubionate (not the spray version in pet stores) and start that ASAP. As for personality, you have a male veiled and MBD or not just be prepared for him to possibly never like anyone or anything. Like mine...
 

SaintJimmy

Avid Member
Hi Saint,
You are supplementing correctly...for an already healthy chameleon. The standard supplementation is to keep up with the daily maintenance needs of a chameleon that is already healthy. A chameleon with MBD starts off with an overall deficiency in calcium, so the maintenance needs are not going to be enough to support daily needs as well as make up what is missing. It's like trying to fill an empty sink with water but the drain is open - you keep pouring water in, but it's draining faster than it can fill up because the sink started off empty. Whereas if you start with a sink already full of water and then pull the drain as you start pouring in water it's going to keep its water level much easier.

So while you are supplementing you haven't replaced the deficit of calcium from the MBD so you're not actually treating it, just keeping your chameleon alive by meeting its daily needs. Lovereps posted the link to my thread about the mechanism behind MBD and how to treat it. Liquid calcium syrup is higher concentration so it will actually replace the deficit, and then you continue to supplement with calcium to meet daily needs in addition to the deficit replacement so there is enough to heal the bones and replace the stores as well as for regular function. This may still be able to be cured without a vet visit, or it may not be. But I would definitely get the calcium syrup of calcium glubionate (not the spray version in pet stores) and start that ASAP. As for personality, you have a male veiled and MBD or not just be prepared for him to possibly never like anyone or anything. Like mine...

Thank god I saved my liquid calcium.

Do you want me to try and put some in his mouth when he gapes or is that extreme
 

ferretinmyshoes

Veterinarian
Staff member
One small drop twice a day for 30 days is ideal. You can either drip it in the side or back of his mouth when he gapes, or while he's chewing on an insect if he'll eat in front of you.
 

SaintJimmy

Avid Member
One small drop twice a day for 30 days is ideal. You can either drip it in the side or back of his mouth when he gapes, or while he's chewing on an insect if he'll eat in front of you.

Itll be tough since the only thing he ever wants to eat is superworms but i hope the hunger strike goes away soon.. its been a couple days and hes only had like 1 cricket and a superworm. I feel bad.

I should get a needleless syringe to feed, right
 
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