help for oustalet’s, not eating

[Violet Rein]

So i got 2 oustalet’s yesterday, a male and a female. We got everything they should need (I've seen that i need to get calcium for them so I'm working on that but it's all we're missing). The female, named Moana, seems to be doing fine. She has ate and drank and moves around good. However the male, named Vader, seems to be having trouble. I don't know if he's just been stressed, but he hasn't eaten yesterday and then this morning i tried as well and he wouldn't open his mouth or hardly look at it. Maybe he's picky and doesn't like the worms? But then also something weird happened yesterday, he drank water and had his head sideways so it was dripping out the side. And then he had like some drool come out with it i think. Then he faced his head down, opened his mouth wide, and was moving his tongue up and down like he was trying to get something out of his throat and then more drool came down. So now I'm worried he might have parasites? I did notice this morning a white spot on the front of his mouth, i don't think it was part of his pattern.
So just wondering if anyone has experienced this, I'm new at this stuff so i just want to make sure he's ok or if i should take him somewhere.

 

[jamest0o0]

Are the oustalet's wild caught? I would suggest a good vet with chameleon experience. Also please fill out the health clinic help form stickied at the top. Copy and paste it here. It sounds like youre pretty new to this and could use some husbandry advice- which is fine, we all start somewhere. Just be ready to adjust some things.

 

[jamest0o0]

Also, I'm not sure if you know this or not, but they should not be housed together. These get to be very large chameleons. You will need a good bit of space for them.

 

[Violet Rein]

Oh i didn't know.

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? Oustalet’s male and female, was told under 2 years, and just since yesterday
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? They were held while i put the cage together, other than that not much until i took out the male this morning to try and get him to eat.
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? We have butter and wax worms i was told to get and the female ate about 5 of them yesterday 2 today. Not sure what gut loading is
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? I've got the multivitamin i was told to give them. From reading stuff on here i seen that i need to get calcium so I'll do that.
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? I've got a dripping water thing over a leafy vine, they've both drank from it, but when the male did, what i described up top occurred. I've misted them a few times but should it be more of a continuous thing? From the wording of the question, seems like maybe i didn't do it enough. Tell me how long i should do it.
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? I don't think they have made anything yet, it's still been less then 24 hours I've had them. And they haven't been tested, but I'm leaning towards the boy needing it, although some he hasn't eaten in not sure he will make any?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. They're new so i don't have previous info

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? Screen cage 24x24x48
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? It's a save your reptiles zoo med combo deep dome light. The cage has not been warm enough so i have not shut off Any of the lights, didn't know i was supposed to honestly
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? The cage mostly stays around 70, the basking spot is like 75, don't know why it's not more, the light is right above it. At night it was at 60. I've got just a regular dial thermometer
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? I've got a dial, it says about 50 right now.
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? I have 1 live plant, it just said terrarium plant lol
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? It's kind of in the living room, but off to the side, we have a connecting room, it's not near vents or anything. The only real traffic is my cats, which I'm also worried that they might be making him nervous.
• Location - Where are you geographically located? I'm in south carolina.

And no i didn't know they should be in different enclosures. I would have only gotten 1 then. The lady i bought it from said they were a pair and would do well in a large one together. It's seems this lady may have given me some misleading info on a few things here. But my main concern right now is that our male won't eat. And what i said in the last post.

 

[jamest0o0]

Sorry I'm running somewhere, I can help a little more later, but to start that cage is too small for even one unfortunately. They should definitely be separated, the male might be too distracted to care about eating with a female around (just off the top of my head, may not be the reason though). Misting should be continuous, I'd start with a 5-10 minute when lights turn on and a couple 2 minute mistings later. Can you post some pictures? Maybe someone here can take one from you? Females need laying bins too. Can be a little more difficult to manage.

 

[Violet Rein]

The cage is too small? That's the biggest they had plus it's way bigger than many that I've seen described on here. It's like 4 feet tall.
Maybe it is just having the female in there then, she doesn't seem bothered by it. But what about the weird mouth and drool thing that happened? Is that not weird?

 

[jamest0o0]

I don't think you realize the size chameleon you purchased. 24x48 is smaller than even my Panthers cage and they get much larger. Most people here don't have oustalet's. There are likely health problems like a RI, parasites, etc. A vet visit sounds warranted. Dragonstrand makes 4x4 foot cages. You can also connect two 24x48 reptibreeze cages through a little handy work. Not being rude, but if you don't make some changes soon the chameleons won't last long.

 

[jamest0o0]

Chameleons need horizontal space just as much as vertical.

 

[Violet Rein]

I was only reading posts about oustalet’s, i realized that they are a bit different. What's worrying me too is that the male doesn't move around much.
I'll get another cage to make it bigger, I'll have to order one because they didn't have any at local pet stores here. They didn't even have any with the mesh siding.
But I'm gonna try removing the female for awhile and see if that helps him, see if he'll eat. If not then i guess we'll have to go to the vet.
It's fine if i have to make changes, I'm open to suggestions. I just want to help this guy out.
I'm just irritated that this lady basically lied to me, she was supposed to be an expert but obviously not.

 

[kinyonga]

You said..."he faced his head down, opened his mouth wide, and was moving his tongue up and down like he was trying to get something out of his throat and then more drool came down. So now I'm worried he might have parasites? I did notice this morning a white spot on the front of his mouth, i don't think it was part of his pattern" ...a photo of the white spot would help. I've heard of this trying to get something out of a throat activity before ...while it's possible something is in it's throat or the pouch where the tongue is stored lately I've been wondering if it's an indication of lung worms..but not sure about this.

I have to agree with the make possibly being stressed by the female being in the cage depending on a few things...is she gravid? Is she reacting in a way that is repelling him? How big are they both? Please post some photos.

It's important that you feed/gutload the insects well. What the insects eat ends up in the chameleon so you want the insects to be well fed/healthy and contain nutrient that will benefit the chameleon's. Crickets, roaches, superworms, locusts can be fed/gutloaded with dandelion greens, kale, collards, endive, squash, zucchini, carrots, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, etc and a SMALL amount of berries, melon, pears, mango, apple, papaya, etc.

It's recommended that you dust the insects with a phosphorus-free calcium powder at almost every feeding to help make up for the poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus found in most feeder insects. It's recommended that you dust twice a month with a phosphorus-free calcium/D3 powder to ensure that the chameleon gets some D3 without overdosing it and allowing it to produce the rest from it's exposure to the UVB light. D3 from supplements can build up in the system leading to health issues such as MBD but D3 produced from exposure to the UVB light won't as long as the chameleon can move in and out if it at will. It's recommended that you dust twice a month with a vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene prOformed source of vitamin A. This prOformed source of vitamin A will not build up in the system like prEformed sources of it will but this leaves it up to you to decide if/when your chameleon needs some prEformed vitamin A. It's thought that chameleons can't convert the prOformed sources.

It's also important not to feed the chameleon too many waxworms and very few mealworms too. Silkworms, superworms, roaches, locusts, hornworms, BSFL, etc are better choices along with crickets as a staple.

Both the misting sessions and the dripper times need to be long enough to stimulate drinking each time and should be stopped in time to let the cage dry out quite a bit at night.

I would recommend a separate cage for each and a visual barrier between them.

You said..." It's a save your reptiles zoo med combo deep dome light. The cage has not been warm enough so i have not shut off Any of the lights, didn't know i was supposed to honestly"...no lights at night at all. If it falls below 60 F at night then use a ceramic heat emitter. The basking temperature should be in the mid to high 80's F. It it's too low it can affect the eating because it plays a part in digestion. The lights should not be colored producing. A regular household incandescent bulb of a wattage that puts the temperature in the basking range may be used for a basking light.

You said..."I have 1 live plant, it just said terrarium plant lol"...please post a photo of it. It helps with the humidity if you have all real plants in the cage. They should be on the nontoxic plant list here on the forum and should be well washed ..both sides if the leaves before using them.

You said... "The only real traffic is my cats, which I'm also worried that they might be making him nervous' it could and it could try to break into the cage too.

Hope this helps! I'd like to see photos of both chameleons!

 

[Violet Rein]

Thank you for that information! Yes i had the multivitamins already and i just got the calcium yesterday. That's interesting about feeding the bugs, i just gave them to them but i will do that next time. Do you have some kind of bucket to put them in with food? I'm just thinking I'll have crickets hopping all over the place if i try that hahaha!
And i also just got a nighttime heating lamp for them so they're in the dark tonight and hopefully it'll stay warm enough. I work nights so I'll check in the morning, it seemed good before i left though.
And the kitties won't break in, they're just curious but i am still thinking of moving them. I guess i will order another cage and let my brother take the male in his room and the female in my daughter's room. That's the best solution i can think of right now, and they'll have access to a window for sunlight that way too.

And yes pictures, I'll post some

 

[Violet Rein]

So the single pics is them on the first day we got them, and the together pic was the next day (yesterday)
The female is probably 4 or 5 inches long not including the tail and the male is more like 7 or 8 inches

 

[Violet Rein]

Here's the set up i have so far, and i will work on getting more live plants. If there's anything else you think i need please let me know. They love the vines the best, probably since they go from the bottom all the way up.

 

[Violet Rein]

The water drips on the leafy vine to the right btw. And the real plant is the one on the bottom right.

 

[Violet Rein]

Oh and no i don't believe the female is gravid from the descriptions I've read. She doesn't bother him at all either. They chill on the different vines mostly, both go up near the lamp so they can both bask.

And I'll try to get a pic of his mouth in the morning as well.

 

[Violet Rein]

Ok so there's the white spot under his mouth and then that's the 2 of them this morning. I had to put Vader up there though. I had put him on the bottom last night on a log to see if he'd get some crickets, but he didn't and he was still there this morning when i got home. So i picked him up and took that pic, and he was moving around in my hand and i put him on the vine and he climbed to the top in the light. So that is worrysome too :/

 

[jamest0o0]

So they're small still? These guys get to be almost 2 feet long.

 

[kinyonga]

Are you sure that one is a female and ones a male?

The white mark looks like a rub but it looks swollen a bit so it may be infected. The lip may be too.

 

[Violet Rein]

Well that's what i was told and the "female" is fairly smaller than the male. The crest is smaller as well.

 

[jamest0o0]

I didn't mean to come off too hard on you, just trying to help as chams can go down hill pretty fast. I'd check out dragon strand if you can. Add more plants and branches in the cage for now. Take all of kinyonga advice, she's great with this stuff. Look into a mist king for water.

Many people/stores that sell these animals don't have a clue. If you're here for awhile you'll notice how many young chameleons(usually veileds) people have, but very few adults. Hard to see so many killed on a regular basis.