HELP, CHAMELEON HAS FALLEN....swollen leg

Howdy,

Funny, I was just on the phone with another keeper tonight discussing blood tests :). We both agreed that it is almost scarey how much blood they need to take-out for testing. We both wondered how much was still left inside :eek:. Smaller chameleons may not be able to safely supply enough blood for a complete lab work-up :(. Also, Vets that haven't taken blood from a chameleon's tail before might be a bit intimidated with finding the vein.
 
kinyonga said:
Was he doing that flopping around before he was started on the medications??
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he was not flopping, no. he was however still falling and was weak. he got worse after the baytril, but he only had 4 doses of that. after the baytril, he stopped eating. he is now eating again, but is still very weak in his legs. tonight i found him sleeping on the floor, instead of a branch, because he didnt have to grip anything. i moved him back to a branch.

i could get another vet, but at this point, it would be like starting all over again, no?
 
JackAttack said:
he was not flopping, no. he was however still falling and was weak. he got worse after the baytril, but he only had 4 doses of that. after the baytril, he stopped eating. he is now eating again, but is still very weak in his legs. tonight i found him sleeping on the floor, instead of a branch, because he didnt have to grip anything. i moved him back to a branch.

i could get another vet, but at this point, it would be like starting all over again, no?
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not if they keep records on him. i would get the medical records for your cham, and have them transfered. i dont know how many you have in your area, but i would call around and see if anyone has had actual training in this
 
Docility said:
not if they keep records on him. i would get the medical records for your cham, and have them transfered. i dont know how many you have in your area, but i would call around and see if anyone has had actual training in this
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i called all the reptile vets close to me before deciding on this one........none of them have an actual certification in reptiles............just an interest in exotic pets, with experience through their medical practice.........but i am going to consider taking him elsewhere for a 2nd opinion........
 
As long as he's eating, it MAY not hurt to give him a few days to recover. he's been through a lot - three medications in a short period is rough on them. See if he improves. He went from not eating to eating, which IS an improvement.

one thing I can say is that, often, it is best to just leave them alone. It is not always the best thing to do, of course.

We cannot be aware of everything here, and have to give the vet some benifit of the doubt, as we're not seeing it in person.

I do think it woudl be a good idea to monitor him closely for the next day or so. Dont' overfeed him, but just give him a nice mix of insects and keep him hydrated. Keep tabs on his feet - maybe take close up pics daily, and look for signs of improvement.

This may be a nutritional problem that was made worse (I can't spell exascerbated correctly) by the medicine(s). It may be microbial or simply an injury.

It might be more than one thing - hard to tell.

I would just leave him be for now, and try to see if he improves when he's off all medication. Sometimes that allows things to go back to normal. If the treatment for the injury has other side-effects, but we're no sure what are from the problem or from the medication, it's damn hard to figure out what's going on, and near impossile to figure out the problem that started it all!

It's the scientific method - try to limit your variables when problem solving. In this case, we've got many many signs: falling, swollen foot, additional swellings in the other feet, weakness, lack of coordination, loss of appetite....

Problem is we don't know for sure if the subsequent problems were caused by the same thing that caused the initial problem in the first place! He's had three medications into his system, and any of those could have an affect on him.

Of course, a simple "process-of-elimination" might not have been the best path for the animal, in the professional opinion of your vet. I was not there, they were.
 
Eric Adrignola said:
As long as he's eating, it MAY not hurt to give him a few days to recover. he's been through a lot - three medications in a short period is rough on them. See if he improves. He went from not eating to eating, which IS an improvement.

one thing I can say is that, often, it is best to just leave them alone. It is not always the best thing to do, of course.

We cannot be aware of everything here, and have to give the vet some benifit of the doubt, as we're not seeing it in person.

I do think it woudl be a good idea to monitor him closely for the next day or so. Dont' overfeed him, but just give him a nice mix of insects and keep him hydrated. Keep tabs on his feet - maybe take close up pics daily, and look for signs of improvement.

This may be a nutritional problem that was made worse (I can't spell exascerbated correctly) by the medicine(s). It may be microbial or simply an injury.

It might be more than one thing - hard to tell.

I would just leave him be for now, and try to see if he improves when he's off all medication. Sometimes that allows things to go back to normal. If the treatment for the injury has other side-effects, but we're no sure what are from the problem or from the medication, it's damn hard to figure out what's going on, and near impossile to figure out the problem that started it all!

It's the scientific method - try to limit your variables when problem solving. In this case, we've got many many signs: falling, swollen foot, additional swellings in the other feet, weakness, lack of coordination, loss of appetite....

Problem is we don't know for sure if the subsequent problems were caused by the same thing that caused the initial problem in the first place! He's had three medications into his system, and any of those could have an affect on him.

Of course, a simple "process-of-elimination" might not have been the best path for the animal, in the professional opinion of your vet. I was not there, they were.
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thank you eric, for all of your advice. taking a step back, i think you're right. its easy to get caught up in all the ways you can try and fix him, but in doing so, maybe doing more bad than good. it cant have been easy on him to be on all those meds, and you're right, perhaps that is the cause of his current symptoms, not the actual problem. all i know is that he had the swelling and weakness to start after the fall, thats why i took him in the first place. i will finish this cours of albon ( 2.5 more weeks every other day) and see where that puts us. if it doesnt cure it, his system needs a rest, and a chance to recover from all the meds. it is so hard to sit by and watch, and easy to try a million things to fix him :(
 
did your vet ever have any proof of infection, or parasite?

I would hate to think s/he did all this with out having reasonable suspicion to do so.

also have you been taking him out side, and letting him bask? The sun is an amazing thing, and can sometimes cure things =)
 
Docility said:
did your vet ever have any proof of infection, or parasite?

I would hate to think s/he did all this with out having reasonable suspicion to do so.

also have you been taking him out side, and letting him bask? The sun is an amazing thing, and can sometimes cure things =)
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she had no solid proof of infection, but by process of elimination, thought it was.she did a fecal and did find parasites, now we're on albon.

i took him outside today and yesterday, he was relaxed and hung his hands down and basked on my hand......cute, but sad. he loves it outside, so im trying to do things that make him happy.
 
He's in canada, so the sunny days might be hard to come by!

But yeah- if you got sun, take him out. It reall yperks them up. Might make him nasty for a while, it changes their mood - usually makes them more agressive.
 
also.........new swelling all over his body.....casque, neck has hard spots,,,,,,back knee joint enlarged,,,,hes getting so swollen, cant hang on to anything :(
 
he has actually shown no improvement at all.........nor has he gotten worse? it is so strange.......he ate two crickets on his own the other day, but im not feeding him very much these days. he still falls A LOT during the day, and has almost no grip in his feet.............its hard because i dont know if he's going to die, or live.
 
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JackAttack said:
he has actually shown no improvement at all.........nor has he gotten worse? it is so strange.......he at two crickets on his own the other day, but im not feeding him very much these days. he still falls A LOT during the day, and has almost no grip in his feet.............its hard because i dont know if he's going to die, or live.
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Awwww man! i really hope he pulls through hes such a cutie. Where are you located, it says Alberta, but where is that?
 
i know right? i hope he pulls through as well, its hard seeing him like this everyday, he used to be such a wanderer........alberta is a province in canada. Edmonton is the city.
 
JackAttack said:
i know right? i hope he pulls through as well, its hard seeing him like this everyday, he used to be such a wanderer........alberta is a province in canada. Edmonton is the city.
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Ok well again best of luck, and keep us posted, i couldnt find this thread so i searched for it and i got really nervous and scared, i wasn't sure if he passed or not. So dont scare me like that! lol
 
GooglezNvincent said:
Ok well again best of luck, and keep us posted, i couldnt find this thread so i searched for it and i got really nervous and scared, i wasn't sure if he passed or not. So dont scare me like that! lol
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awe thanks for searching for us :) i appreciate all the help and thoughts :)

i will keep it more updated, its just there hasnt been a lot of change........

his latest symptom is that for two days in a row now, ive seen him with bulging eyes........like really bulging......he looked so strange. not sure why this is happening, any thoughts?

he has just finished a shed, it almost seems like he shed to accomodate his swollen limbs :( he's been off meds now for almost a week, and there has been no improvement/worsening of his symptoms, he's just staying the same. he cant hang on to things, he falls regularly. he still feels like a raw steak when you squeeze him most times. today he was pretty thirsty, which is also uncharacteristic. he drank about 6cc's of water today, and ate two crickets on his own. my husband fed him those today, and said his tongue was normal, and accurate. when i fed him crix a few days ago, it looked like it was a really difficult event to shoot his tongue out :( it was really slow, and he was super wobbly, he got both crickets though.......... i think since there is no change either way, meds or no meds, i am going to take him to a second vet. hopefully with some better results.............
 
here's a pic of jacks bulging eyes................??? any idea why this is happening? once was right before he was going to sleep, and the other was this afternoon, just while he was chilling on his branch...........sorry the one is blurry, but you can still tell how bulgy they are..........
 

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