Grow light LEDs and Chameleons

[ZackTayl]

Hey, guys. I have some extra LED strips (about 40watts max) and I wanted to put them in my Cham enclosure to help out my plants. They'd be placed so that my Chameleon can't touch them (as they do get about 85F).

Has anyone used LEDs before? Would this be too bright for him to look at?


Cheers

 

[Decadancin]

Quite a few people use LED lights for plants. If they are producing a spectrum that would be beneficial to plant growth and there is ample foliage for the Chameleon to get to shade if needed, should be fine.

 

[cyberlocc]

If your getting at What I think your getting at, and that's putting them on the sides of the cage, ya no, don't do that .

If you want to out them on top of the cage, or even on the top cage frame like the reptibreeze deluxe or whatever, that would be fine.

 

[Remkon]

There's a potential problem with introducing LED and that is that LED can flicker, especially when dimmed the rate of flickering is lowered but more obvious to the eye. This can potentially be annoying to a reptile as they may see the flickering eventho it may appear as a steady light to us.
So I'd not just put any LED in there.

That being said I'm all for giving your animal a full spectrum light, not only it helps plant growth, but it may benefit your reptile as their sight is 'more advanced' than ours and it will potentially benefit your animals wellbeing living in captivity.

A short read: https://thereptiletimes.wordpress.c...sion-part-1-understanding-sight-october-2013/

Here more, but you'll have to translate: http://www.reptielenlampen.nl/contents/nl/d13.html

 

[DavidL]

I have two chams, each enclosure has a 90 watt led. I have used it for approximatley one year and have not noticed any problems other than that it's a bit narrower beam of light than I would like. I would say that my chams perfer basking right in the most intense area even compared to basking under the UVB light. So, I would say if you have the light already mount it from above and assess the situation.

 

[cyberlocc]

There's a potential problem with introducing LED and that is that LED can flicker, especially when dimmed the rate of flickering is lowered but more obvious to the eye. This can potentially be annoying to a reptile as they may see the flickering eventho it may appear as a steady light to us.
So I'd not just put any LED in there.

That being said I'm all for giving your animal a full spectrum light, not only it helps plant growth, but it may benefit your reptile as their sight is 'more advanced' than ours and it will potentially benefit your animals wellbeing living in captivity.

A short read: https://thereptiletimes.wordpress.c...sion-part-1-understanding-sight-october-2013/

Here more, but you'll have to translate: http://www.reptielenlampen.nl/contents/nl/d13.html

That's very interesting. However you also have to keep in mind, that LEDs are new.

When Flo bulbs were new, they were deadly and we were all going to die because of them.

People don't like new, and they will find anything they can to bash new. Remember LEDs were very very bad for eyes. (Proven false, I mean looking straight at them isn't a good idea).


That said, you do present a good point about reptile vision.

They do see UVA, as a visible spectrum. So if you were to just use LEDs the colors for them would be skewed.

Another note of interest.

Full spectrum lighting does not exist. There is no light, that is full spectrum. And when it's stated as full spectrum, it means full visible spectrum. Incans, lack UV, Flo's lack Infrared. They all lack X-rays, Microwaves, UVC, and a I think there is a couple more, those are a part of full spectrum Infrared is used by reptiles, and modifys their behaviors.

Also, on the UVA thing, another thing of note, UVA, can and is reproudced by LEDs, all put out a very small amount, UVA specific LEDs can put out a large amount, and that is the 4th cone.

Infrared can also be made with LEDs. In all reality, LEDs are the closest you can get to full spectrum. You can't afford UVB LEDs, you don't want UVC LEDs, I am not sure X-ray is needed, but LEDs can do all of that, where the other bulbs simply cannot.



Onwards to flicker town.

This is false, LEDs can flicker, if they are used imporperly. Buy a non dimmable LED that is a E27 socket and put it behind a 110v dimmer, and dim it. It will flicker, it does this because the LED is not being used the correct way. It's not made to dim, and it's not just reptiles that can see it, we can do.

The speed of light, is the speed of light, that has nothing to do with eyes. They cannot see the speed of light any faster than we can.

Now their brains being able to notice it faster, is another matter, but we would still notice it as well. Flo's can also flicker BTW.

As long as you are using good LEDs, and if you choose to dim them, you do so correctly, there is no flicker, well there is flicker, but it can't be seen it's too fast.

That said there again, LEDs only do it when dimmed. Flo's, always do it, no matter what, now the flicker is faster than that of a bad LED, but they are still constantly flickering. So if it was true that reptiles can see the flicker Bette than us, then Flo's are the worse possible thing you could use.

Like I said, this all comes back to Flos are going to kill you.

 

[Char333p]

I have two chams, each enclosure has a 90 watt led. I have used it for approximatley one year and have not noticed any problems other than that it's a bit narrower beam of light than I would like. I would say that my chams perfer basking right in the most intense area even compared to basking under the UVB light. So, I would say if you have the light already mount it from above and assess the situation.

I have the dual LED and UVB bulb fixture, and no problems either. Im not particularly worried. IF some recent study comes out that its bad for any reason, someone make a threat immediately, but I find it unlikely to happen.

 

[Char333p]

That's very interesting. However you also have to keep in mind, that LEDs are new.

When Flo bulbs were new, they were deadly and we were all going to die because of them.

People don't like new, and they will find anything they can to bash new. Remember LEDs were very very bad for eyes. (Proven false, I mean looking straight at them isn't a good idea).


That said, you do present a good point about reptile vision.

They do see UVA, as a visible spectrum. So if you were to just use LEDs the colors for them would be skewed.

Another note of interest.

Full spectrum lighting does not exist. There is no light, that is full spectrum. And when it's stated as full spectrum, it means full visible spectrum. Incans, lack UV, Flo's lack Infrared. They all lack X-rays, Microwaves, UVC, and a I think there is a couple more, those are a part of full spectrum Infrared is used by reptiles, and modifys their behaviors.

Also, on the UVA thing, another thing of note, UVA, can and is reproudced by LEDs, all put out a very small amount, UVA specific LEDs can put out a large amount, and that is the 4th cone.

Infrared can also be made with LEDs. In all reality, LEDs are the closest you can get to full spectrum. You can't afford UVB LEDs, you don't want UVC LEDs, I am not sure X-ray is needed, but LEDs can do all of that, where the other bulbs simply cannot.



Onwards to flicker town.

This is false, LEDs can flicker, if they are used imporperly. Buy a non dimmable LED that is a E27 socket and put it behind a 110v dimmer, and dim it. It will flicker, it does this because the LED is not being used the correct way. It's not made to dim, and it's not just reptiles that can see it, we can do.

The speed of light, is the speed of light, that has nothing to do with eyes. They cannot see the speed of light any faster than we can.

Now their brains being able to notice it faster, is another matter, but we would still notice it as well. Flo's can also flicker BTW.

As long as you are using good LEDs, and if you choose to dim them, you do so correctly, there is no flicker, well there is flicker, but it can't be seen it's too fast.

That said there again, LEDs only do it when dimmed. Flo's, always do it, no matter what, now the flicker is faster than that of a bad LED, but they are still constantly flickering. So if it was true that reptiles can see the flicker Bette than us, then Flo's are the worse possible thing you could use.

Like I said, this all comes back to Flos are going to kill you.

I see you said something bout UVB LED's. Do those work? or will they not even reach what a chameleon needs?

 

[Decadancin]

I see you said something bout UVB LED's. Do those work? or will they not even reach what a chameleon needs?

No, as of right now there are no LED lights that produce UVB spectrum of light that could be used in reptile enclosures to provide what they need.

 

[Char333p]

No, as of right now there are no LED lights that produce UVB spectrum of light that could be used in reptile enclosures to provide what they need.

What are those generally used for though? Plants or something?

 

[Decadancin]

LED's are used often to help with plant growth and also as a way to brighten up enclosures. The technology has definitely allowed for some unique uses, and many use them in reef aquariums as well.

 

[Char333p]

LED's are used often to help with plant growth and also as a way to brighten up enclosures. The technology has definitely allowed for some unique uses, and many use them in reef aquariums as well.

no no no not those. The UVB LEDS I think ive seen them around.

 

[Decadancin]

no no no not those. The UVB LEDS I think ive seen them around.

Oh, sorry , not really sure, but there have been some trying to develop them. Not really sure how successful they have been, or if the original intent was to have the UVB spectrum...

 

[cyberlocc]

No, as of right now there are no LED lights that produce UVB spectrum of light that could be used in reptile enclosures to provide what they need.

There is, just no one going to pay for them lol. They are very new, and 1000s of dollars a unit. And I still wouldn't use them till they are more available and vetted.

As to that being their intent. I am pretty sure it was. We have and have had UV A and UV C for a long time. I am pretty sure they are doing it for plants.

Alot of plants, do beneifiet from UVB. So the indoor farmers of some things really want it.

That's where I seen that they now exist, on forums that I am scared to be on, but if you want lighting knowledge to grow plants effiencently that's sadly where it comes from .

 

[Decadancin]

There is, just no one going to pay for them lol. They are very new, and 1000s of dollars a unit.

As to that being their intent. I am pretty sure it was. We have and have had UV A and UV C for a long time.

My understanding is that they are not suitable for the UVB needs of reptiles in enclosures. I don't follow it too closely though, there could have been some major advancements in the last couple years. It's just like everything else. The first CD player I had cost about $700.00. It was one of the best on the market at the time and there were only a few CD's available if you could find them . Now you could get one for twenty bucks .

I know, "What's a CD player???"


***edit*** I was replying before the rest of the comment was posted...

 

[Decadancin]

the indoor farmers of some things really want it

Makes sense with all the indoor hydroponics going on!

 

[cyberlocc]

My understanding is that they are not suitable for the UVB needs of reptiles in enclosures. I don't follow it too closely though, there could have been some major advancements in the last couple years. It's just like everything else. The first CD player I had cost about $700.00. It was one of the best on the market at the time and there were only a few CD's available if you could find them . Now you could get one for twenty bucks .

I know, "What's a CD player???"

Oh I'm old enough to know what a CD player is . I had the 250 Sony CD Walkman when they came out .

I think they would be suitable for reptiles, but you would prolly need alot of them. The plants don't need that awful much.

That's why I say, I would wait for them to drop in price, be more available and be tested for our needs, before even beginning to entertain the idea of them.

So basically as far as we are concerned they don't exist .

Makes sense with all the indoor hydroponics going on!

Ya I hate being on those forums.

 

[ZackTayl]

Wow. A lot to think about. I think I'l run some experiments with the strips and driver before i make any final decisions. Also, I just want to clarify. He has a uvb bulb + heat combo and this will not be replacing that

 

[Butcher.kraig]

That's very interesting. However you also have to keep in mind, that LEDs are new.

When Flo bulbs were new, they were deadly and we were all going to die because of them.

People don't like new, and they will find anything they can to bash new. Remember LEDs were very very bad for eyes. (Proven false, I mean looking straight at them isn't a good idea).


That said, you do present a good point about reptile vision.

They do see UVA, as a visible spectrum. So if you were to just use LEDs the colors for them would be skewed.

Another note of interest.

Full spectrum lighting does not exist. There is no light, that is full spectrum. And when it's stated as full spectrum, it means full visible spectrum. Incans, lack UV, Flo's lack Infrared. They all lack X-rays, Microwaves, UVC, and a I think there is a couple more, those are a part of full spectrum Infrared is used by reptiles, and modifys their behaviors.

Also, on the UVA thing, another thing of note, UVA, can and is reproudced by LEDs, all put out a very small amount, UVA specific LEDs can put out a large amount, and that is the 4th cone.

Infrared can also be made with LEDs. In all reality, LEDs are the closest you can get to full spectrum. You can't afford UVB LEDs, you don't want UVC LEDs, I am not sure X-ray is needed, but LEDs can do all of that, where the other bulbs simply cannot.



Onwards to flicker town.

This is false, LEDs can flicker, if they are used imporperly. Buy a non dimmable LED that is a E27 socket and put it behind a 110v dimmer, and dim it. It will flicker, it does this because the LED is not being used the correct way. It's not made to dim, and it's not just reptiles that can see it, we can do.

The speed of light, is the speed of light, that has nothing to do with eyes. They cannot see the speed of light any faster than we can.

Now their brains being able to notice it faster, is another matter, but we would still notice it as well. Flo's can also flicker BTW.

As long as you are using good LEDs, and if you choose to dim them, you do so correctly, there is no flicker, well there is flicker, but it can't be seen it's too fast.

That said there again, LEDs only do it when dimmed. Flo's, always do it, no matter what, now the flicker is faster than that of a bad LED, but they are still constantly flickering. So if it was true that reptiles can see the flicker Bette than us, then Flo's are the worse possible thing you could use.

Like I said, this all comes back to Flos are going to kill you.

And yes there is lights that give full specturm there called L.E.C lights are full spectrum

 

[cyberlocc]

And yes there is lights that give full specturm there called L.E.C lights are full spectrum

No they are not lol.

There is no light, period that is full spectrum.

It's

A. Not possible to do with just 1 type of light.

B. Not a good idea, as some spectrums are dangerous.

Just because a light produces UVB, doesn't make it full spectrum. Which is what those LCE (which are basically Metal Halides btw) do.

They do not produce, X-rays, they Do not produce, Microwaves, they do not produce UVC, those are all a part of the spectrum.

You can see their spectrum here.
https://www.growweedeasy.com/lec-grow-lights-ceramic-metal-halide-cmh, and it is the full visible spectrum, as well as some dips into UVB and Infared. However there is still spectrum, on either sides of that, that are not produced.

We cannot, we have not, reproduced the entire spectrum of the sun. And the only way you ever could, would be many different types of lights.