Gravidity-associated gular edema?

[Rozárka]

About a week ago my 1.5 year old female panther chameleon developed gular edema. She has never laid eggs so far and while I cannot see distinct egg shapes in there, her belly does look fuller to me than before. She is my first chameleon and I’m unsure of the visual signs of gravidity.

She hasn’t stopped eating, hasn’t changed color dramatically and is acting pretty much normal except perhaps a bit slowed down, no pacing at the bottom of the enclosure or taking interest in the substrate. She was not mated and I do not own any other chameleon. A few weeks ago she had a burst of activity, turned bright orange and kept head bobbing me. I thought she was searching for a partner.

Can you please tell me if she looks like she might be carrying eggs? I am trying to eliminate obvious reasons for her gular edema before I start worrying about it even more (I have read all the posts and comments regarding the issue I could find on this forum). Thank you.

Pictures were taken today, she’s used to being handled and comes out of her indoor enclosure on her own will to be taken outside to bask in the sun when it’s warm enough.

 

[kinyonga]

Have you changed the supplements lately?
Have you changed what you are feeding the insects?
Have you changed insect suppliers?
How much do you feed her a week? What insects do you use?

 

[Rozárka]

Have you changed the supplements lately?
Have you changed what you are feeding the insects?
Have you changed insect suppliers?
How much do you feed her a week? What insects do you use?

The only significant change in the feeding that might be coinciding with the formation of the edema is that about three weeks ago I started feeding her dubias that were much larger in size than she was getting previously which was last winter. I try to rotate different feeders to provide variety and a friend was ordering dubias for her beardie, so I asked for just a small number because I currently have a whole box of very small banded crickets. I discontinued the dubias three days ago, she’s had about 15 of them in total.

She otherwise gets crickets, silkworms and whatever she catches when she’s outside. She eats a lot of wildcaught insects over the summer. She stays in an outdoor enclosure during warm months and also has a supervised free range area. I feed her about one larger (dubia or regular size cricket or silkworm) or a few very small (young banded crickets) a day when she’s inside. If I don’t feed her daily, she hunts for isopods on the bottom of her bioactive enclosure. I will be getting silkworms today which I read here on this forum might help flush out the system.

She is provided plain calcium with every indoor insect feeding and Reptivite D3 approximately every two weeks. I say approximately because since late spring I’ve added a few days in between after consulting her breeder about what seemed to be an eye issue and this is what he told me to do as he did the same with his animals after consulting other breeders on issues he was having. She is now due for her Reptivite dose and I’m not sure whether to give it or not…? Also, the Reptivite supplement is about a year old and although not expiring until February 27, I have been considering switching to Repashy LoD but so far have not. I will have questions about that but that’s for another thread I guess.

So, does she not look like she might be gravid?

 

[Rozárka]

More photos from today:

 

[kinyonga]

Although I can’t say it’s right or wrong…You might like to read this…
https://www.chameleons.info/l/gular-edema/

 

[Rozárka]

Although I can’t say it’s right or wrong…You might like to read this…
https://www.chameleons.info/l/gular-edema/

Thank you, I am familiar with Petr Nečas’ page and had read this article as I looked for information online first. That’s actually why I came here to ask if she looked gravid to someone experienced because i could not tell. I’m more and more leaning toward that she is. I guess I’ll just wait and see. Thanks!

 

[MissSkittles]

I can’t tell you if she is gravid or not, as my panther girl has never shown me exactly what it looks like (never laid eggs). She has gone thru just about every color combo and pattern that she possibly could, but no eggs, unless she was super sneaky about it. I can tell you to always be prepared for it with a permanent lay bin if you do not have bioactive set up. If and when she needs to lay eggs, she can.
By the way, she is very beautiful. I love how her peachy blends in to her green…so very pretty.

 

[Rozárka]

I can’t tell you if she is gravid or not, as my panther girl has never shown me exactly what it looks like (never laid eggs). She has gone thru just about every color combo and pattern that she possibly could, but no eggs, unless she was super sneaky about it. I can tell you to always be prepared for it with a permanent lay bin if you do not have bioactive set up. If and when she needs to lay eggs, she can.
By the way, she is very beautiful. I love how her peachy blends in to her green…so very pretty.

Thank you. She actually has a much wider palette of colors and patterns, as I’m sure you can imagine. She also has a very chill and sweet personality.

She has a layer of bioactive substrate in her indoor enclosure and a laying bin in her outdoor one. I hope everything goes well and she knows what to do when the times comes, if she is indeed gravid.

 

[Rozárka]

Her orange phase

 

[Beman]

She is provided plain calcium with every indoor insect feeding and Reptivite D3 approximately every two weeks. I say approximately because since late spring I’ve added a few days in between after consulting her breeder about what seemed to be an eye issue and this is what he told me to do as he did the same with his animals after consulting other breeders on issues he was having. She is now due for her Reptivite dose and I’m not sure whether to give it or not…? Also, the Reptivite supplement is about a year old and although not expiring until February 27, I have been considering switching to Repashy LoD but so far have not. I will have questions about that but that’s for another thread I guess.

Can you tell me a little more about her supplementation? What do you mean by you have been doing additional reptivite? Because yes providing a multivitamin more often for any length of time can cause edema. Not all chams react the same or tolerate it the same. Vitamin D and Vitamin A are fat soluble so they build up and store in the body. This is why you can easily oversupplement them if you do it too frequently.

Supplements should be replaced yearly to ensure they are not degraded. Repashy LoD is the one I prefer over reptivite with D3. Reptivite has added phosphorus which is not really something we want to have as supplementation of calcium is done to also balance the phosphorus level of the insects we feed. But repachy LOD also has slightly lower IU levels of vitamin A and D3 which can be better tolerated.

Regardless of if she is indoor or outdoor you want to supplement with calcium without d3 at all feedings. Especially for a female and egg production. They need the calcium. Then every 2 weeks you would use your multivitamin like repashy LoD or Reptivite with D3. Vitamin A is needed for eye health which is what is in the multivitamins mentioned.

 

[Rozárka]

Can you tell me a little more about her supplementation? What do you mean by you have been doing additional reptivite? Because yes providing a multivitamin more often for any length of time can cause edema. Not all chams react the same or tolerate it the same. Vitamin D and Vitamin A are fat soluble so they build up and store in the body. This is why you can easily oversupplement them if you do it too frequently.

Supplements should be replaced yearly to ensure they are not degraded. Repashy LoD is the one I prefer over reptivite with D3. Reptivite has added phosphorus which is not really something we want to have as supplementation of calcium is done to also balance the phosphorus level of the insects we feed. But repachy LOD also has slightly lower IU levels of vitamin A and D3 which can be better tolerated.

Regardless of if she is indoor or outdoor you want to supplement with calcium without d3 at all feedings. Especially for a female and egg production. They need the calcium. Then every 2 weeks you would use your multivitamin like repashy LoD or Reptivite with D3. Vitamin A is needed for eye health which is what is in the multivitamins mentioned.

So regarding the supplementation it’s the other way round, as I said, I added a few days in between: as per the breeder’s advice, instead of every 14 days, I started giving it every 18 days. The advice was given to me exactly for the reason you mention, to prevent or counteract possible build-up. Hope it makes sense now.

I’m not sure lower doses of vitamin A in Repashy are a good thing…?

I also have no idea how you dust wild insects that she catches outside, sometimes even in flight. I have always been told you don’t and I honestly cannot see how you would even if you tried. As I said, I do dust all indoor (farm raised) insect feeders.

 

[Beman]

So regarding the supplementation it’s the other way round, as I said, I added a few days in between: as per the breeder’s advice, instead of every 14 days, I started giving it every 18 days. The advice was given to me exactly for the reason you mention, to prevent or counteract possible build-up. Hope it makes sense now.

I’m not sure lower doses of vitamin A in Repashy are a good thing…?

I also have no idea how you dust wild insects that she catches outside, sometimes even in flight. I have always been told you don’t and I honestly cannot see how you would even if you tried. As I said, I do dust all indoor (farm raised) insect feeders.

So by taking the mutlivitamin out farther the edema would not be linked to that. More then likely something else going on and yes can be linked to her being gravid.

Lower amount of vitamin A... Because there is no proof that higher is better especially with this being a fat soluble vitamin. I have used repashy LoD without issue. Arcadia makes a multivitmain that has a fraction of the amount of vitamin A in it and they have had good success with it. Granted theirs is used on a specific 8 feed cycle with there other supplements.

I did not mean to dust the wild ones. I meant anything you give her even if she is outside you want to make sure you are supplementing.

Are you supplementing with bee pollen by chance? IF so we have seen that some chams can be more sensitive to this and develop edema. As soon as the bee pollen is removed the edema resolves.

 

[Rozárka]

So by taking the mutlivitamin out farther the edema would not be linked to that. More then likely something else going on and yes can be linked to her being gravid.

Lower amount of vitamin A... Because there is no proof that higher is better especially with this being a fat soluble vitamin. I have used repashy LoD without issue. Arcadia makes a multivitmain that has a fraction of the amount of vitamin A in it and they have had good success with it. Granted theirs is used on a specific 8 feed cycle with there other supplements.

I did not mean to dust the wild ones. I meant anything you give her even if she is outside you want to make sure you are supplementing.

Are you supplementing with bee pollen by chance? IF so we have seen that some chams can be more sensitive to this and develop edema. As soon as the bee pollen is removed the edema resolves.

I did supplement with bee pollen but stopped in the spring after consulting the breeder. I still give a little bit of it to the feeders but no longer on them when feeding her.