Furcifer cephalolepis and Calumma tigris

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Just wondering about the availability of these two species. Both are not from Madagascar and do not fall under the CITES ban yet these are seldom seen in captivity to never seen here in the states. Why is it that they are never available for the C. tigris or seldom seen for instance F. cephalolepis (last seen in the USA 1997-1999)? If they both became available they should probably never be seen being exported except in small numbers. Anyone care to comment?

 

[Kent67]

The Seychelles and Comoros currently do not allow the export of those species.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Then the pictures of Calumma tigris from European reptile shows are illegal or special permit exports?

 

[Kent67]

I'd guess the former.

 

[pssh]

I think someone whould export some from Europe here to the states... Or is that not allowed either?

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

I would say that if they are not allowed to be exported from their home country they would not be legal for export any where else (nobody except there home country is supposed to have them). Hence no that would not be legal either.

 

[Kent67]

The global population of Calumma tigris was estimated at 2,000 but could be as low as 1,400 individuals. http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/61425/0

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Furcifer cephalolepis was exported for a while (1997-1999) and those that worked with the species only had good things to say. Then without much warning the species stopped being imported. I never heard or read about why after that.

Culumma tigris to my knowledge has never been imported to the USA.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

The global population of Calumma tigris was estimated at 2,000 but could be as low as 1,400 individuals. http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/61425/0

If that is the case your not going to see that species except in pictures and videos.

Thanks I was not aware that the species population numbers were that low.

 

[Chris Anderson]

Kent,

Have you been able to find anything that explicitly states that the export of either species is banned or when the ban was put in place? I had heard that permits for the export of F. cephalolepis stopped being issued but never saw any documents stating that. I've never seen anything indicating that C. tigris was banned from export either.

I do know that C. tigris is being bred in Europe by a couple of breeders. I don't know the history of their bloodlines but my understanding is that their offspring are issued CITES documents. It'd be nice to know if/when C. tigris were actually banned from export, if it is simply a case of a country that only rarely issues export permits in small numbers, or allows CB export permits. There are examples of species falling into the latter two cases.

Chris

 

[eisentrauti]

The global population of Calumma tigris was estimated at 2,000 but could be as low as 1,400 individuals. http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/61425/0

If that is the case your not going to see that species except in pictures and videos.

Thanks I was not aware that the species population numbers were that low.

The numbers are ridiculous in my eyes. Do you think that anybody can really give that concrete numbers of such small and well hiding chameleons ? Additionally they live at several island and I bet that nobody has search one all for this species

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

That is mostly my problem as well, I was never made aware of heard of through friends and reading that there was any kind of ban on these two species.

I'm probably going to have to check CITES web page or E mail them to see what the situation is with these two species. With numbers as low as what Kent indicated for C. tigris I'm not expecting much, except it would be neat to say there is a no doubt legal member of Calumma family. Looking like thats not going to happen though.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

It would not surprise me if the bans were created not be CITES instead by these island countries themselves. Similar to Australia and there reptiles. I'm going to go information hunting on CITES web page and see what I can find.

 

[Chris Anderson]

Contacting CITES will probably not tell you anything. Unless there is a standing recommendation or a designated quota (both of which would be available online), CITES does not typically dictate trade restrictions beyond the level of permitting which is required for international travel. Even CITES quotas are determined by the individual country's CITES authority. You would probably need to contact the appropriate department of their national government to get the answers you seek.

Chris

 

[eisentrauti]

Sorry to ask, but what's the concrete goal of this discussion ? To make all european tigris illegal

 

[Chris Anderson]

Sorry to ask, but what's the concrete goal of this discussion ? To make all european tigris illegal

I'd like to know their trade status for a lot of reasons. There is no way for anyone to prove the European tigris were acquired illegally or discount the CITES documents their offspring are given, but understanding the level of protection these species have and when they received it is useful in a lot of ways.

Chris

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

No just to see why they are not exported since to my prior knowledge there is no CITES ban on these two species.

Until recently I was not aware Calumma tigris numbers were as low as what has been posted.

 

[eisentrauti]

Calumma tirgis could be found in captivity in Switzerland (or at least in the past). If those animals were legal there must be CITES documents somewhere. Swiss is very strict with documents and without CITES they couldn't be found there the legal way.

 

[Kent67]

Kent,

Have you been able to find anything that explicitly states that the export of either species is banned or when the ban was put in place? I had heard that permits for the export of F. cephalolepis stopped being issued but never saw any documents stating that. I've never seen anything indicating that C. tigris was banned from export either.

It's been a while but I would swear I've read somewhere that although some species (Geochelone gigantea, for example) may be farmed, ranched, captive bred, etc. and exported legally under Seychelles law, that C. tigris isn't one of them. Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, but if the Seychelles allowed them out legally, I'm sure we'd have seen at least a few in the U.S. over the last 20 years but I've never heard of them here, either. I've never even heard of a zoo here having any.

As for F. cephalolepis, I don't know why they stopped issuing permits. But, didn't the last groups come in with shipments from Madagascar?