jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
Fluid build up in the tissues is edema. It is not normal.
Fungus picture? Time to go to vet?
- Thread starter APailthorp
- Start date
Fluid build up in the tissues is edema. It is not normal.
microracer24
Member
Right but where is it on this particular Cham? I have seen some pictures of gular edema but I don't see that here.
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
Look at the back of the casque in the first two pictures. It is very obvious in those two pictures. Do you see how bloated it is? I would expect his eyes to be bulging out as well, but can't really tell from the pictures.
microracer24
Member
Ah yes I see it. Thanks for pointing it out for me.
APailthorp
Member
Frank went to the vet on Thursday. The doctor thought the discoloration on his casque is a healing injury to the skin, maybe abrasion from rubbing.
She didn't feel he's showing edema, the tissue is firm and symmetrical. She felt he was in good condition overall. He's 145 grams (about 19 months, hatched 3/25/15).
She took blood and sent it for lab work and got unexpected results. He's got high uric acid value which indicated renal disease. To treat that issue the doctor is prescribing a kidney medication called Allopurinol for 30 days. He also had a high phosphorous value so recommending putting him on a phosphorous binder called cimetidine for 30 days. The doctor would like to recheck the blood values in 2 weeks after starting the medications.
I don't have the specific numbers but will find out Monday when I go to pick up meds.
All of this indicates issues with husbandry. I really didn't think he's been actually eating much of the dust since I don't apply a lot and the bugs don't get eaten immediately but no more dusts anytime soon. I got a shipment of silks from Nevada, and the stick bug cage got fresh blackberry, hopefully he can get what he needs from feeders. Still working at trying to get enough GBRs, wish he was interested in the dubias. They eat everything.
He's been doing a lot of eye cleaning/rolling, in addition to rubbing his face. I've now got him on a three times a week extended watering, at least until things have really dried out for a while.
She didn't feel he's showing edema, the tissue is firm and symmetrical. She felt he was in good condition overall. He's 145 grams (about 19 months, hatched 3/25/15).
She took blood and sent it for lab work and got unexpected results. He's got high uric acid value which indicated renal disease. To treat that issue the doctor is prescribing a kidney medication called Allopurinol for 30 days. He also had a high phosphorous value so recommending putting him on a phosphorous binder called cimetidine for 30 days. The doctor would like to recheck the blood values in 2 weeks after starting the medications.
I don't have the specific numbers but will find out Monday when I go to pick up meds.
All of this indicates issues with husbandry. I really didn't think he's been actually eating much of the dust since I don't apply a lot and the bugs don't get eaten immediately but no more dusts anytime soon. I got a shipment of silks from Nevada, and the stick bug cage got fresh blackberry, hopefully he can get what he needs from feeders. Still working at trying to get enough GBRs, wish he was interested in the dubias. They eat everything.
He's been doing a lot of eye cleaning/rolling, in addition to rubbing his face. I've now got him on a three times a week extended watering, at least until things have really dried out for a while.
Extensionofgreen
Chameleon Enthusiast
It's really telling that you are a good keeper, when you aren't afraid to admit that there were unintentional husbandry issues and that you are endeavoring to remedy things. There are learning curves with keeping living things and no one is perfect.
I applaud you for seeking help, following through, and being willing to accept constructive criticism, without taking it personally. We are all here to help and some of us may have more tact than others, but in the end, we only hope to see these animals live the best lives possible.
I will add that renal disease often coincides with edema and I agree with other's observation that there is edema present, behind the casque, at a minimum. It is nothing to worry about, as the vet's findings already explain it. Increasing his oppetunities to drink, including placing him in a shower, outside of his cage, may help flush his system and he should be offered as much water as he can get, while on medications. I'd still avoid prolonged periods of wetness, I the enclosure, especially, with that abrasion still healing.
Best of luck to you both.
I applaud you for seeking help, following through, and being willing to accept constructive criticism, without taking it personally. We are all here to help and some of us may have more tact than others, but in the end, we only hope to see these animals live the best lives possible.
I will add that renal disease often coincides with edema and I agree with other's observation that there is edema present, behind the casque, at a minimum. It is nothing to worry about, as the vet's findings already explain it. Increasing his oppetunities to drink, including placing him in a shower, outside of his cage, may help flush his system and he should be offered as much water as he can get, while on medications. I'd still avoid prolonged periods of wetness, I the enclosure, especially, with that abrasion still healing.
Best of luck to you both.
APailthorp
Member
Ah, you're saying additional showers for hydration outside of the cage so it stays dry. Makes sense, I'd been resisting putting him in the shower because he doesn't like being handled, and I'm sure he'll go all bright when he's in an unfamiliar environment, but he'll be fine. Tomorrow he gets a nice long warm shower (no drainage issues!). Not hot, but slightly warm not tepid or cool.
APailthorp
Member
Here's a short video of Frank from the end of this mornings shower. You can see the eye licking/rolling that I'm wondering about.
Extensionofgreen
Chameleon Enthusiast
You watching him, especially from above is intimidating and could be why you don't see him drinking. Giving him the humidity and time to clean his eyes is a benefit in itself. If you have a potted ficus, schefflera, or even a silk tree he can sit on, with some cover and places for droplets to form, he may respond better. You can't leave him in there too long, really. 30, 45, even 90mins will only help flush him and it usually relaxes them, even if they are stressed by the handling initially.
He looks pretty good and doesn't seem to be so affected by edema as he was before, but that could be due to his body position, when the different photos were taken.
He looks pretty good and doesn't seem to be so affected by edema as he was before, but that could be due to his body position, when the different photos were taken.
APailthorp
Member
I don't loom over him, just shooting the video. Yes, I need a good shower plant.
Here's a video of him going for a stick bug, after a while. Fast forward to 2:30. He really likes the stick bugs.
Here's a video of him going for a stick bug, after a while. Fast forward to 2:30. He really likes the stick bugs.
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