Frustration

[coolmoon]

Once again I am frustrated with the attitude people have on rescuing chams from stores. I think most of us are here because we have a love of chameleons and yet so many are willing to turn away from one in need. They say if we don't buy them they will stop selling them. I have been working at a pet store on and off for sometime now and a death is a tax write off. They don't care and it certainly won't stop them from bringing more in.

I also think it would be really nice if people could be more supportive when someone posts they are rescuing one. Give them good information rather than giving them a speech about not doing it. I think they understand the risks but are willing to take them.

Sorry if I've offended anyone but its how I feel and I hope it will make someone stop and think.

 

[DJnSoCal]

A hobby or love to one is merely a business to another. I haven't purchased a chameleon from a pet store yet, but I can't say for sure that I would *never* do it. I am pleased with the site sponsors and my local chameleon club.

When I see a chameleon at a pet store in poor shape, it does make me want to take it home. The closest store to my house has several veilds in small enclosures with inadequate lighting and water. Aside from mentioning it to the owner (which I did), you are probably not going to change their practices. You hope you will, but probably not.

 

[laurie]

I am with you on the rescue of chams from pet stores. As long as you know what you are doing up front then I think it is a good thing to do. And yes I have done it my self and have living proof in my reptile lounge. I have also adopted from a place that rescues chams, NOT at all like rescue from a pet store but you still may get a less that perfect cham, but I am a less that perfect person so I am ok with rescue & adopting.

 

[chambabysitter1]

I think it's commendable to take on a store rescue. But giving them 80+ dollars for a sickly chameleon, just puts money in their pockets to go out and buy more.

On the same note, if you notify a store that you would willingly take a sick and dying animals off their hands, most places do it for free, as long as you just ask. I would rather take this method, than willingly buy supplies and animals from them, so they can in turn buy more.

If you continue buying the sick and dying animals from them, what is to stop them from buying more? I guess it's a matter of which you see as a lesser evil.

At the same time, will you continue to buy every sick animal that comes into the store in question? They could potentially make hundreds off animals sales in just a few months from one caring owner.

On 1 side of the coin, you are supporting the store that kills animals, on the other side, you are letting the direct animal in question die by not doing anything.
Not exactly win win for anyone.

Edit: A local pet store stopped keeping and selling chameleons due to the difficulty of care. Believe it or not, if people stop buying sick animals, some stores ACTUALLY stop selling them.

 

[chequepoint]

Taking a rescue for free is one thing, financially rewarding negligence is just irresponsible.

 

[kenya]

Taking a rescue for free is one thing, financially rewarding negligence is just irresponsible.

I agree with this the most, but I see the sides you all are saying. It is a personal decision and I commend anyone who takes on a sick cham from a pet store, but I will always have to say that it is a double edged action that is rewarding the people who keep the animals inadequately and cause the sickness in the first place. It is good for the individual chameleon to be taken out of the situation, of course, and I understand the compassion behind it.

I also would not call buying a cham from a store, even if it is sickly, a "rescue". It is a purchase straight out, even though you intend to fix it up.

Please don't be offended when people point out that buying chams from stores to "rescue" them reinforces that they sell and the store is able to keep them that way; it is a very true statement and part of this hobby is knowing the larger consequences of your actions. I don't think anyone is saying it to be harsh; I would consider it more of education in an alternative vein of thought. I wish lots of luck to anyone who decides to take on a sick pet store cham- I will tell you now that it is not easy and may very well end in humane euthanasia.

 

[jojackson]

I have been working at a pet store on and off for sometime now and a death is a tax write off. They don't care and it certainly won't stop them from bringing more in.

Coolmoon, are you in a position to know this for fact? Did the owner say so? Did he/she explain how that works?
I'll assume he/she pays insurance premiums that covers the death of stock pre-sale to a certain level. The more that die, the more he/she must claim come tax time, The more claims he/she makes, the higher the premiums on insurance. He/she might well claim some of those cost back through tax, but not all, so its not exactly, 'written off', they are still paid for, just later rather than now.
At some point, the premiums for insurance will outweigh the benefit. And I would think
it would cost more to insure 'flushable pets', aka small things that die alot (8in petstores) (including reptiles) and I assume less for those least likely to die pre sale (cats dogs birds).
The dollar is still the bottom line, probly no concession off insurance weather he buys from reputable breeders (expensive/Less profit)) or dodgy WC from somewhere (cheap/more profit).

Just my thoughts

 

[coolmoon]

Sorry, been working the last couple of days. Yes I know for sure on the write off. I work for a chain, shouldn't say which one. They consider it a normal part of business. I had several discussions with my boss especially when I first started there because I hate when any of the animals die. I do my best to educate them on proper care of what we have, rather than going with company policy. My boss is pretty good about it and we have stopped carrying chams at our store after months of talking but there are many others that still do.

I understand too where people are coming from with buying the cham but most times you will be paying someone so its still a rescue regardless. Very few people just give you an animal even when its sick. It just seems most people think this is the only answer for the problem. Perhaps at a very small store but overall I don't believe it will fix it.

I just think when someone is trying to save one and asks for help they should get less don't do it and more suggestions on what might work. Just a little more support for the people willing to take the risk.

I also know the results. Some make it and some don't, I do alot of saving of the hopeless.

 

[Syn]

I've been trying to get my local pet store to stop having chameleons since I found this site. They are too stupid to realize they all die.. I guess I've just given up on them.

I really don't want to get into this thread much, nor do I want it to escalate into a full blown argument.. but the customer is usually the one who finds the dead chameleon. I have found a total of 4 dead chameleons at this certain pet store, I have alerted them every time, and scolded the manager for it, he ignored me, but I've noticed there are less and less people there everyday.

I have just stopped going now, I am that disappointed. There aren't many option where I live, so now I'm stuck driving 20 miles to get some crickets from another store...

People who want to save chams should understand that it will have a shorter lifespan, and a higher cost in the end.. some people just don't realize the responsibility.. Coolmoon I remember a while ago the little predicament we had, and I respect you for that, you knew the problems and were willing to take it on, but some people don't understand the financial responsibility that comes with these sick animals, and end up blaming themselves or the pet store in the end..

I doubt a tax writeoff is worth as much as the chameleon itself would be.

 

[chambabysitter1]

A tax write off?
I worked at a store that sold farm animals, rats, and bunnies, and I never remember it being in the stores best interest to let animals die.

They are simply worth more alive. Simple as that. Whether our employees loved the animals or not, they were simply worth more alive. I don't remember us filling out paperwork for a tax write off the few times we've had an animal die off. Sounds like bad business practice on the part of your store, not a real lawful justification behind their actions.

Do you have any more substantiated evidence behind this claim other than your boss told you so?

 

[jojackson]

I just think when someone is trying to save one and asks for help they should get less don't do it and more suggestions on what might work. Just a little more support for the people willing to take the risk.

I hear you.

 

[Pure]

A tax write off?
I worked at a store that sold farm animals, rats, and bunnies, and I never remember it being in the stores best interest to let animals die.

They are simply worth more alive. Simple as that. Whether our employees loved the animals or not, they were simply worth more alive. I don't remember us filling out paperwork for a tax write off the few times we've had an animal die off. Sounds like bad business practice on the part of your store, not a real lawful justification behind their actions.

Do you have any more substantiated evidence behind this claim other than your boss told you so?

When a "business" any business looses stock, be it due to damage, theft, defective parts, or in an animal's case, death. They can write it off on their taxes. They do not get 100% of the animal's (the stock) value but it is a percentage.

It's actually sickening the amount of waste some companies do just because they can put it toward their taxes.

Kinda off topic, but when I was a teen I worked at the South East Toyota Warehouse here in Jax. My job was to toss perfectly good car parts in a compactor. Mostly because the box was damaged. Where talking enkie rims, infinity stereo systems, Aluminum engine blocks, turbo chargers, the list goes on and on. They even went as far as to put a camera out by the dumpsters to make sure employees do not take any of the merchandise. By law it HAD to be destroyed.

 

[blackbetty]

This is whats hard for me too. I know they are there, I know I could help, but financially it isnt doable every single time something comes in that is sick. You have habitat, food, and most likely VET.. I dont think anyone WANTS to turn away.. But yea, free is one thing..I have no qualms about taking something for free and giving it my all, at least then i know the person had good intentions to try to save it by giving it to someone who can.. a pet store doesnt care, bottom line.. And yes, they do get a tax writeoff. Walmart has something similar.. if they dont sell a broken product, they return it and get a % of it back, so its not like they are out everything. While its more financially feasible to have it alive and sell it for $200, it dying and get $100 is better than nothing, especially when they only paid 20-30$ for it.....People who sell to petsmart are breeders who just want their stock gone. My friend would sell handraised cockatiels that are the sweetest tamed cockatiels..and she only got $18 each from the pet store versus selling them herself for 125...She just needed em gone at the time.. people who work in pet stores are there mainly because "its a job"..I hope to one day own a petstore..but I feel awful when these people have lost their love of the animal and dread coming to work..but then again, id never work for a chain store..lack of closeness and sincerity

 

[chambabysitter1]

By that logic a store would be making a 70 dollar profit off each dead animal.

If this is the case, wouldn't people just raise rats or mice and let them die, writing them off for mad profit?