forum newby and his short tongued veiled cham

[discusdean]

hi there ,

hope this is the place to be asking this question as im new to this posting lark lol.

now for the serious stuff,i have a 2 year old male veiled chameleon that currently lives in a 3x2x2 arborial viv with a 100w heat lamp and a reptisun 5 strip light.he gets misted about 3 times a day and is fed nutrabol once a week with his wax worm treat and adult locust/crickets during the week.

now for the problem for the last couple of days he has started to show a lazy attitude towards shooting his tongue to catch locust and seems to struggle to eject it more than a couple of inches mostly missing what he aims at .he will eat eagerly if i hand feed him though .the wax worms are placed into a feeding dish and even these he obtains by lowering his head real close .this seems to have come on only in the last week that i have noticed and am getting rather worried.

i do have another cham a panther of unknown local that is on the same routine although parameters are different and he seems fine ,please help

dean

 

[pssh]

Fill this out and post a picture of the chameleon. Could he have hurt his tongue/had it bitten by a feeder?

Here is some recommended information to include when asking for help in the health clinic forum. By providing this information, you will receive more accurate and beneficial responses. It might not be necessary to answer all these questions, but the more you provide the better. Please remember that even the most knowledgeable person can only guess at what your problem may be. Only an experienced reptile veterinarian who can directly examine your animal can give a true diagnosis of your chameleon's health.


Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
* Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
* Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
* Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
* Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
* Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
* History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.


Cage Info:

* Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
* Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
* Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
* Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
* Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
* Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
* Location - Where are you geographically located?


Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.


Pictures are helpful

 

[discusdean]

Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - he is a male veiled cham of about 2 years in age
* Handling - we handle him abour 3 times a week depending what mood he is in
* Feeding - we feed him every other day with 3 to five adult locust or 5 to 10 large crickets all gut loaded on either bug grub /greens/frest fruit .he is also give a treat of 10 wax worms once a week .
* Supplements -he is suplimented with nutrabol (calcium powder)once a week (wax worms dusted)
* Watering - the viv is misted 2-4 times a day for a min or too at a time or untill everything is wet and he is hand watered via dropper every day (sometimes he will drinks lots other times nothing)
* Fecal Description - dark moist poo with a white section and yellow tip mostly and has never been tested for parasites
* History -the only thing i can think of is that he has been seen to bee under his basking lamp with his mouth open wide a couple of times of which im unsure of a reason for.

Cage Info:

* Cage Type - he is housed in a 4ftx3ftx1.5ft wooden aborium with glass front screen doors ,the top is vented by 4x 60mm air vents and the viv sits about 2ft of the floor .the viv is furnished with large and small branches and vines and green plastic foliage.
* Lighting - the basking lamp(red) is on 24hrs a day but the temp is varied from 22 at night to high 80-90 during the day via a habistat controller,the main 2ft strip tube is a reti 5 uv lamp this is timered on for 12 hrs a day both bulbs are 6months old
* Temperature - temp is high 80s to low 90s during the day under the basking lamp and a low 20s at the oposite end of viv and floor area and night time temp is a low 20s all over.measured with stick on meter /habistat controler.
* Humidity - the humidity ranges from 40-60 dependant on misting and is measured with stick on meter

* Plants - no live plants are used
* Placement - the cage is located in the corner of our living room on the opsite side of the room to the door and window and radiator but does see a fair amount of movement in the room but only noise is the tv
* Location - i am located in southern england


Current Problem - the current problem is that he seems to be having trouble extending his tongut to cast his food ,this has only been noticed in the last couple of days to a week .he still eates if i hand feed him and he does seem to manage to catch some food as the insects are disapearing slowly even eating the wax worms out of a feeder dish he seems to have to lower his head very close to eat them .the only other thing to note is that he has started to shed in the last 24hrs but do not know if this is relevant at all .

will try and add pics as soon as i can work out the uploader as says failed all the time

any help would be great

 

[Carlton]

* Supplements -he is suplimented with nutrabol (calcium powder)once a week (wax worms dusted)
* History -the only thing i can think of is that he has been seen to bee under his basking lamp with his mouth open wide a couple of times of which im unsure of a reason for.

Cage Info:

* Lighting - the basking lamp(red) is on 24hrs a day but the temp is varied from 22 at night to high 80-90 during the day via a habistat controller,the main 2ft strip tube is a reti 5 uv lamp this is timered on for 12 hrs a day both bulbs are 6months old
* Humidity - the humidity ranges from 40-60 dependant on misting and is measured with stick on meter

A few comments:

First, I realize you've had him for 2 years, but this problem may have been building up slowly over time
How do you feed him? Chams who have eaten out of a cup or dish for long periods can lose muscle tone and control as they don't have to really extend their tongues for loose or flying insects. Tongue problems are also connected to nutritional deficiencies. Dusting with calcium once a week isn't enough and I didn't see any note about any herp vitamins or calcium with D3 which should be offered about once a week. An adult cham should have a dusting of a herp vitamin about once a month.

Any lights on at night can stress chams as they have full color vision and may not be able to lower their metabolism to sleep. I realize in the UK your house temps may require some night heating...try a ceramic heat emitter that produces no visible light if it does get down below mid 50's F.

 

[bugboy]

your temps may be too high as well. if i remember correctly they like it around 80-85 for a basking temp. you stated that he has been seen under the lamp with his mouth wide open; thats an automatic indicator of temps that are too hot.

 

[pssh]

Adult veileds like high 80s and low 90s. Nutrobal has d3 and vitamins.

You need a digital thermometer as the stick on ones are crap and can be very off. Pictures would be helpful.

 

[kinyonga]

Since many of the feeder insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorus so I dust at most feedings with a phos.-free calcium powder.

I use a phos.-free calcium/D3 powder twice a month. D3 from supplements can build up in the system and cause problems.

I dust with a vitamin powder twice a month too. I use one with a beta carotene source of vitamin A. Beta carotene (prOformed) source of vitamin A won't build up in the system like prEformed vitamin A can, but there is controversy over whether all/any chameleons can convert it or not. Excess prEformed vitamin A may prevent the D3 from doing its job and push the chameleon towards MBD.

Tongue dysfunction can be caused by trauma to the tongue, calcium issues, dehydration and other issues.

 

[discusdean]

cheers for the replies guys i have now lowered the basking point to 80-85 and will see if this stops him sitting with his mouth open.

the nutrabol is a vit and calcium powder so maybe i should be dusting a more regular routine so will start this straight away also .

with regards the dehydration what are the best ways of telling this as he seems to take water as and when he feels like it and he is offered this every day with a droper and has the water that is all over the viv when we mist him during the day,would a misting unit(mist king)aid this or would it just push the humidity to high .

he is still eating though and doesnt look skinny or sunken eyes so im unsure what to do next .

 

[OOOst16]

Look....I had this problem with my vield aswell...atleast a similafr problem....I'm doing everything right...he doesent have mbd...blah blah blah....yet he doesent shoot his toung. One week he was shooting full blast....the next week he only was able to shoot about 1 inch before he retraacted it back in. The only possible explanation was that...one day when I was feeding with tweezers...I droped somthing and he shot at the super worm and I didn't let go ...so he was trying to real it in like a fishing pole. I asume this caused major strain. It has been 2 months now...and his toung still is not working. He shoots it one inch....and then retracts it. He is able to eat on his own. But has to chase sed prey until he's within shooting range for his special toung.I have posted many threads about this. Therefore all investigation has been done, there is no question as to how it happend.

 

[OOOst16]

And before anyone freaks! Yogg is in perfect health and thriving fully ( not tryikng to hyjack your thread) ...Now do a test for early mbd.... does your male cham have a rubbery casque or jaw? Does he have strong grip? ....is he able to extend himself on the 2 back feet and have the to front ones in mid air....like he's trying to fly?Any deformitys on the bone structure? Mbd can cause toung issues. Its just something you look for first,,,,then once you clear that it mayn not be mbd...you move to other possibilitys.... and since he's so used tobeing hand waterd via dropper.....you mize well just get a drippper for the cage ....so he can just drink from the tube free at will.

 

[bugboy]

for dehydration-check his urates, the white part attached to his poop. this should be all white or sometimes with a yellow-orange tip. if the WHOLE urate is orangish-yellowish then he is dehydrated. if that is the case up the mistings but not too much where the cage is wet all the time. another way to tell dehydration is sunken-in eyes but the urate will give you a straight and definite answer.

 

[Leilaskeeper]

Look....I had this problem with my vield aswell...atleast a similafr problem....I'm doing everything right...he doesent have mbd...blah blah blah....yet he doesent shoot his toung. One week he was shooting full blast....the next week he only was able to shoot about 1 inch before he retraacted it back in. The only possible explanation was that...one day when I was feeding with tweezers...I droped somthing and he shot at the super worm and I didn't let go ...so he was trying to real it in like a fishing pole. I asume this caused major strain. It has been 2 months now...and his toung still is not working. He shoots it one inch....and then retracts it. He is able to eat on his own. But has to chase sed prey until he's within shooting range for his special toung.I have posted many threads about this. Therefore all investigation has been done, there is no question as to how it happend.

I had this happen too .. except I had my door open, was in the process of dusting some crickets and she shot at the bag. I was so scared she would try shoving the bag down her throat so I pulled a bit .. but realized that was not a good option. I just tried gently pulling it off her tongue and thank god it did. But when I put the crickets in front of her to feed, her tongue shot short. After a few days though, she was back to normal.

 

[Leilaskeeper]

Just wanted to add a few things .. have you tried hand feeding? Are you comfortable with it? It might help with the tongue issue and also, it's a great way to bond with your cham. If there is food really close to a cham, of course it won't need to shoot the tongue. It will lightly dab the food just to get it to stick to the tongue. Just get your cham to lock both eyes on the bug and move your hand back a few inches so they can shoot at it. Just don't use a dish to feed. If you want to put something in a deep container, then do that .. but promote your cham using the tongue.

Also, have you ever tried feeding your cham veggies? I give my girl collards (high in calcium) and carrots (beta-carotene) .. and you could also give many other items. Just stay away from spinach, tomatoes and broccoli from what I've heard. Also, schefflera plants are great plant to have in the enclosure .. contribute to humidity, veileds like to snack on them, and chams love them!

If your temps go below 50 at night time, you need a space heater. Those temps should be hovering around 60-70 at night. Humidity usually raises to 60 with the basking light off but this is okay.

Lastly, you said there is movement in your living room - is your cham dark colours or usually bright? It might be stressful. I understand some people can only have their cham in that room so you might want to try putting plants in the front and side of the enclosure where people look in. I manage to have my girl in my living room and have bushy plants in the front and leave the back more open for her.

Update us on your veileds tongue! Hopefully he goes back to normal. Otherwise, he sounds healthy and hydrated. Show some pics if possible!