8. What do I say about the “Bongo” article?
Even the article Mika recommended reading states the following, “Treatment should be initiated conservatively. Panther chameleons should require about 1-2IU per gram [of body weight] given as a weekly oral dose OR fed weekly diets of gut-loaded crickets that contain 50-100IU/g of preformed vitamin A.” Knowing that the people who wrote these articles and books have had a lot of experience handling chameleons, but have the same amount of actual research at their hands, I would say that their recommendation is sound, but just as well-informed as mine, which is a bit more conservative, at merely 1-2IU/wk given as a bi-annual dosage.
9. Vitamin deficiencies are NOT selective to a specific eye. ALL research, that I have read, regarding the expression of VAD (vitamin A deficiency) state that a deficiency of vitamin A affects both eyes, first as night blindness, and potentially permanent blindness and scarring. Before affecting the eyes, VAD usually expresses itself as anorexia and dry skin (or as in the case for chameleons: excessive shedding). If your chameleon has one eye closed, I would guess that it is not VAD, but more likely conjunctivitis from a localized infection. These infections tend to be common for animals in captivity, especially in cases where cages are not cleaned daily. These infections, treated with medications such as Fortaz, generally subside very quickly. As for the second part of this loaded question that you asked me, do I think they’re wrong? They could be. It’s very possible, just as it is possible that I am wrong. I am not here to prove anyone wrong or right, I am here to offer a well-educated view on a topic that had been discussed on this forum by far too many people who did not even understand what vitamin A is or what it does in their own bodies let alone in their chameleons. The topic is, and as someone else said, will continue to be controversial until we are willing to do long-term clinical studies on CB and WC chameleons.
Dave Weldon brought another great view to the table. In a very nicely composed position, he brought citations from text. These texts are not only well known, but have excellent reputations. I commend you, Dave, for your willingness to thoroughly read and report back to us on your findings. As the ever-skeptical person that I have been trained to be, I must question the authority of those authors on the topic. Not that they are incorrect or that they are not well qualified, but rather that their information comes from the same level of educated conclusion that mine does. Again, without very strict clinical trials, a mere case study or even an observational study cannot tell us the entire story. That being said, I am always open to other views and I strongly believe that the view presented by Dave Weldon is a very well educated and researched view that should be considered by caretakers before making a decision on supplementation for their own pets.
Dave, on that note, you had said “37.5IU orally” as a recommended dose. What did you find was the frequency of this dosage? Daily, weekly, monthly, etc? As for the comment regarding the lack of liver for crickets, there is research that suggests that arthropods can convert beta-carotene to retinyl esters despite their very different bodies. They still possess the gene that produces an enzyme that symmetrically cleaves carotenoids for use as vitamin A. Because the cleavage is not complete, the absorption by animals that consume these arthropods either must possess the genes, and thus enzymes to complete the cleavage or they have reduced absorption and therefore exhibit signs of VAD. This indicates that the requirement for proformed vitamin A is much higher than that of preformed vitamin A to achieve the same results. In layman’s terms: gut-loading crickets with grain or carrots alone will not produce enough beta-carotene to be absorbed and used effectively by the chameleon. Thus either a SMALL dose of preformed vitamin A can be administered (and you all have already heard several view points regarding the amount) OR the crickets and other insects can be gut-loaded with chicken feed, containing small amounts of preformed vitamin A AND carrots, etc that contain average amounts of beta-carotene. THEREFORE: if you are already gut-loading your feeders properly, additional vitamin A in the form of retinyl palmitate may be dangerous, especially when the amounts recommended are so difficult to determine.
10. Mika, you asked about your 3000 IU – is that the amount of an entire dropper or the amount that you are giving?
11. Proper gut-load vs proper cages.
You are so right! So many people are so misinformed. As chameleon lovers, it is our job to inform others of what we know. If you are ever unsure of what you do or what someone else does, please ask, as this forum allows, others who have been successful with their keeping.
12. Synthetic?
Retinyl palmitate is a member of the retinoid group I spoke of in the beginning of this response. It is usually found in food sources and can be purified or left as is. Retinyl palmitate is more shelf-stable than the other retinyl esters and therefore is used commonly in pharmaceutical preparations. Synthetic means that the compound was derived in a lab. This is the same exact compound as one extracted from a food source and acts no differently in the body. Retinol, which is used by the body, still needs to be released from the fatty acid ester compound via cleavage and reduction. Varying enzymes, transcribed by specific genes, control these reactions. The jury is still out on whether or not chameleons possess the genes, and therefore enzymes required to mediate the aforementioned reactions.
As said before, by many, it seems to be the dosing that is most confusing and inconclusive. I feel better knowing the general chameleon public is much better equipped to make their own decisions regarding the use of vitamin A. I, personally, do not believe that any one author that has posted has provided a better (let alone best) post than any other. I think the two main contributors have been quite qualified to respond. I think those who asked questions are essential to threads like this one. The input from everyone is much appreciated, and I believe we can all agree that we’ve walked away from this discussion with new ammunition for the battle that is our pets’ health.
Emil,
Your comment was very well put. As Mika said, big businesses do tend to say anything to get people to buy their products, but they do have reputations to protect. They generally follow major trends and published research before producing products for pet store shelves. For the average chameleon keeper, who is buying crickets from pet stores for their one or two pets, supplementation may be necessary, or at least beneficial. As more is learned, we may soon find this product in amounts more appropriate for reptile consumption in our pet stores. For the breeder or large caretaker, who is personally gut-loading their feeders (not merely dusting) with both carotenoids and small amounts of preformed vitamin A/retinoids (as earlier discussed), additional supplementation is probably not necessary.
Remember, if you choose to supplement, amounts are important. Keep a close watch on your pet. There are no established recommendations, which is why this thread even began. Dave found some good research. Even the two main articles discussed in this thread are contradictory to each other, as is the case with most research. My recommendation is, if you choose to supplement, provide about 12IU per year OR about 15-30% of a vitamin A capsule (10,000IU – if the capsule is actually fish oil, please consider switching, we have not discussed the impact of omega-3 fatty acids on chameleons yet, but EPA and DHA may already be produced by their bodies). The recommendations depend on the species, age, and size of your chameleon, as well as what he or she is being fed on a regular basis.
Thank you, again!
Stacey
Man that was long winded
. Thanks in advance.
