First time taking WC veiled outside since homing him

[chelizard]

I've been working through the "Building Trust with Your Chameleon" guide that @MissSkittles so kindly referred me to, and it's been going well! My veiled, named Linguini, is now happily eating crickets out of my hand each meal. He also started crawling up my arm to eat hornworms that I place on my shoulder.

Today I decided to take him outside for some real UV on his favorite plant, our 5 ft tall money tree. Our climate: very sunny, 70s, a bit windy. He really seemed to hate it... Was puffing up and showcasing his absolute brightest colors. It was beautiful, but I don't want to stress him out! Since getting back in his enclosure he's been pretty brightly colored, watching me and was even gaping for a bit. (Pics attached)

Does anyone have advice on acclimating their cham to outdoor time? Best practices for getting them in / out?

 

[chelizard]

Also, I have no idea how old he is. Based on size, I've been told by a friend that he's maybe 1 year old. How can I know how much to feed him? I was doing 5-6 feeders every other day but he started eating all the pothos in his enclosure.

Current Husbandry:

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Veiled chameleon, male, guessing ~1-1.5 years old? Wild caught in SW Florida.
• Handling - He eats crickets or hornworms out of my hands and crawls fully on my arm to do so. Doesn't want to do that if there's no food, and I haven't grabbed and held him at all.
• Feeding - Feed 5–7 feeders per day. That means a mix of adult crickets, dubia roaches, and hornworms. I feed him 2 hornworms every other day, and sometimes a superworm or two as a snack. He keeps eating the pothos and biting on the schefflera. He also bit the pitcher plant the other day.
  • Crickets are gut-loaded with mustard greens, collard greens, kale. Dubias are fed bananas, apple, and sweet potato.
• Supplements - ReptiCalcium w/o D3 on every feeding. Sticky Tongue Farms Indoor Miner-All 2x/mo. Also bought ReptiVite but haven't used it yet.
• Watering - Manually misting water for 2 minutes each day, once when I wake up at 7:30am and once around when his lights go off at 7:30pm.
• Fecal Description - White urates, big poops. I think I fed him too many hornworms yesterday because he had a very wet white urate pile.
• History - Wild caught in southern Florida. Mellow affect compared to other WC chameleons, supposedly!

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - 24x24x48 Reptibreeze XL screen cage.
• Lighting - Reptisun 5.0 T8 bulb (18”) with typical reptile bulb hooded housing resting on top of the cage. 100W frosted incandescent bulb in an 8.5" ceramic dome with dimmer, turned down to ~60% brightness or so for ideal basking temperature. Daily lighting: 7am – 7:30pm for both bulbs.
• Temperature - measure with a temp/hygrometer at the top and middle of cage. Infrared thermometer used to measure other areas.
  Daytime Temps
  Basking spot: 80-86 degrees F. Center of cage: 76 degrees F. Bottom of cage: 73-75 deg F.
  Evening Temps: ~66-70 deg F.
• Humidity - Daytime: 39-45%. Evening: 50-60%. Misting 2x/day in morning and evening. Running cool humidifier for 6 hours in the evening right next to the cage. Using temp/hygrometer to measure humidity.
• Plants - Tons of live plants, including: pitcher plant, pothos, prayer plant (maranta), bromeliads, two schefflera, snake plant, one philodendron. I built a frame inside the cage so there is nothing touching the floor. There's a tray on the bottom that I can pull out to rinse and drain. There's also manzanita branches in there that I collected, sanded, washed, sanitized and dried.
• Placement - Cage is next to my desk and in the side of a large living room, ~10 feet from large glass french doors and a heating vent. Bottom of cage is about 2 feet off the floor, top of cage is about 6 feet high. It sits on top of a tall wooden TV stand and is surrounded by tall plants.
• Location - Northern California.

 

[Gloriawood]

No advice, however, my guys name is Spaghetti so I think him and Linguini should be besties.

 

[janjan20]

Can he see his reflection in any of those windows?They have very good eye sight even at long distances. That may explain the behavior.

 

[Lindasjackson]

I had the same problem last summer with my guy, Jackson’s xanth. He did the same thing and was so scared he tried to bite me which is unusual for a Jackson’s.

 

[MissSkittles]

I’m so glad that the blog helped. All credit goes to @Beman who wrote it.
Looking at your husbandry, I can only help with a few things right now.
Once a chameleon is fully grown, it’s very hard if not impossible to determine any approximate age. Linguini (love the name) could be one or her could be three…
He is fully grown so you want to feed him about 3-4 feeders every other day or even three times a week if needed. Veileds will eat non stop if allowed and can easily become obese. Watch his cheeks and casque for puffing out, which means he’s getting a bit chubby.
I keep meaning to learn about Sticky Tongue supplements, but procrastinate it. Is the miner-all a multivitamin? If so, then you wouldn’t need ReptiVite, which is also a multivitamin. You would need a D3 source though if the miner-all doesn’t have any.
The uvb is the biggest concern I have. When using a T8, you need to use at least a 10.0 or 12% uvb bulb and then it needs to be about 6” above basking area.
Taking him outside is one of the best things…fresh air and natural uvb. I’m not sure how this may affect the D3 supplementation if you’ll be having him outside a good amount. Maybe you’d want to give D3 only once per month? I honestly don’t know and hope someone who does, helps with this.
I’m afraid there may not be an easy way to bring him back in. It’s natural that he’s going to like it better outside. Maybe have a small transportation plant that you can coax him onto and carry inside.
No doubt he’s probably a wild caught from Florida. I’m just glad that the animals are being homed rather than the alternative that is commonly done to the invasive species here. He will definitely need to be tested for parasites.

 

[chelizard]

Can he see his reflection in any of those windows?They have very good eye sight even at long distances. That may explain the behavior.

I didn't consider that because it's so bright and I was focused on him! Great point... Next time I will move the tree further away from the windows on our deck. Thanks

 

[chelizard]

I’m so glad that the blog helped. All credit goes to @Beman who wrote it.
Looking at your husbandry, I can only help with a few things right now.
Once a chameleon is fully grown, it’s very hard if not impossible to determine any approximate age. Linguini (love the name) could be one or her could be three…
He is fully grown so you want to feed him about 3-4 feeders every other day or even three times a week if needed. Veileds will eat non stop if allowed and can easily become obese. Watch his cheeks and casque for puffing out, which means he’s getting a bit chubby.
I keep meaning to learn about Sticky Tongue supplements, but procrastinate it. Is the miner-all a multivitamin? If so, then you wouldn’t need ReptiVite, which is also a multivitamin. You would need a D3 source though if the miner-all doesn’t have any.
The uvb is the biggest concern I have. When using a T8, you need to use at least a 10.0 or 12% uvb bulb and then it needs to be about 6” above basking area.
Taking him outside is one of the best things…fresh air and natural uvb. I’m not sure how this may affect the D3 supplementation if you’ll be having him outside a good amount. Maybe you’d want to give D3 only once per month? I honestly don’t know and hope someone who does, helps with this.
I’m afraid there may not be an easy way to bring him back in. It’s natural that he’s going to like it better outside. Maybe have a small transportation plant that you can coax him onto and carry inside.
No doubt he’s probably a wild caught from Florida. I’m just glad that the animals are being homed rather than the alternative that is commonly done to the invasive species here. He will definitely need to be tested for parasites.

Thank you @Beman for the blog, and thanks @MissSkittles for the detailed response!

It sounds like yes, I am feeding him way too much. It's time to bring him in to a vet anyway to check for parasites since he's acclimated a bit to his new home. It seems as if he's not gained any weight and was concerned he's a bit thin (maybe from parasites from his wild Florida past).

The Sticky Tongue Miner-All has D3 and Calcium. The Reptivite has a ton of extra vitamins (unlike Miner-All) but no D3 or Calcium. Will stick with the Miner-All for now

Based on how flared up / colored / puffed up he got when I took him out, I'll probably try outdoor time once every week or two, max. It's usually less than 70 degrees F outside where I live and kinda windy or foggy.

As always, so appreciative of this forum

 

[Beman]

So outdoor exposure is very different for them. Remember full sun when ambient temps are 70 does not mean he is actually only getting 70 degree exposure. First sign of it being too warm is they will gape. Very common for them to gape when going back into a cage after being outside. When they get warm like that they have to get body temp back down and they do this by gaping.

About your supplements. Sticky tongue indoor has very low levels of D3 compared to other products. Just make sure your UVB is on point using this one. I would not worry about using this 2 times a month even with getting out door exposure to real sun. Oral supplementation is just a safety net to ensure they are getting what they need. Only using it 2 times a month is fine. Even if the cham was getting everyday exposure to sun still being supplemented with oral D3 would not cause any overdose issues. Their bodies only makes what is needed unlike when we supplement and we can overdose them with too much. This is why the rule of thumb is 2 times a month with a D3 supplement.
Now the reptivite without D3. Yes it does not have D3 but this is a plain calcium base with multivitamins. So this one has multiple water soluble vitamins and the vitamin A which is needed. Vitamin A is another fat soluble vitamin like D3 is so this one also would only be given 2 times a month as well.

Rotate these two week to week at one feeding then all other feedings would be using the plain calcium without D3.

His weight looks good right now. I would go ahead and decrease is feeding days and feeder amounts. Veileds will gain weight quickly and with them this is not something you want. By the time we see their casques and fat pads in the cheeks holding too much weight they are already holding too much fat around their organs. This can compromise organ function for them. It is much harder to get them to drop the weight later than to control the weight in the beginning.