Female Veiled Chameleon Swollen Throat
- Thread starter CarlyMK
- Start date
Elizadolots
New Member
Please let us know how she does. She's a pretty chameleon. I'm sure we'll all enjoy seeing pictures of her as she grows.
Elizadolots
New Member
Oh, you're welcome. I'm glad it's going down. Keep up what you're doing! It seems like you're on the right track.
DekuScrub
Avid Member
not to sound like a dick but not everyone on the boards will agree with "but this board recommends the following schedule for supplements plain calcium without D3 daily, D3 twice a month, multivitamin twice a month."
i dont disagree either i just dont think the plain calcium so frequent is warranted. i also dont recommend multivitamins. but then i have to explain.
case in point, i used nekton on my first female veiled ever in preparation for breeding. i assumed it would be of higher quality than repcals herptivite. subsequently, she developed some serious gular edema. it was brought to my attention (on some other online chameleon community) the multivitamin was the likely culprit. especially with the amount i was providing.
i switched over to stickytongues miner-all dropped the concentration and the frequency dramatically and had very few occurrences with other females there after. especially not to the degree of the first female. but dont worry, even so she lived a long healthy life (especially for a female putting out clutches up in the 80s)
eventually i phased out the multivitamin all together and became reliant on gutloading. much less worrisome than potential hypervitaminosis.
if you cant afford to gutload or dont have the time then stick with the multivit alternative. (id go with once a month but thats jmo) but at the same time i would cutback dramatically for now and see if that helps. as justjumpit suggested lay off for maybe a month. very little goes a very long way.
also "Actually I have heard gular edema can be caused by oversupplementation of vitamin A" what are you currently feeding the crickets? carrots could be topping off the excess in the multivit.
and in closing the main reason i dont agree with "schedule for supplements plain calcium without D3 daily, D3 twice a month, multivitamin twice a month." is there are other factors in diet that may make this imbalanced. such as the type of feeders, the frequency of feedings the amount of feeders per feeding, hydration, feeder food/gutloads, and even lighting/temperatures and how that effects their metabolism. buuuuuut all that is just nit picking.
calcium without D3 daily, D3 twice a month, multivitamin twice a month is pretty much the safest recommendation without any sort of elaboration. thats why its recommended lol.
good luck, oh and this has only happened to me when the girls get gravid so id get a bin ready even though she still looks a bit young.
i dont disagree either i just dont think the plain calcium so frequent is warranted. i also dont recommend multivitamins. but then i have to explain.
case in point, i used nekton on my first female veiled ever in preparation for breeding. i assumed it would be of higher quality than repcals herptivite. subsequently, she developed some serious gular edema. it was brought to my attention (on some other online chameleon community) the multivitamin was the likely culprit. especially with the amount i was providing.
i switched over to stickytongues miner-all dropped the concentration and the frequency dramatically and had very few occurrences with other females there after. especially not to the degree of the first female. but dont worry, even so she lived a long healthy life (especially for a female putting out clutches up in the 80s)
eventually i phased out the multivitamin all together and became reliant on gutloading. much less worrisome than potential hypervitaminosis.
if you cant afford to gutload or dont have the time then stick with the multivit alternative. (id go with once a month but thats jmo) but at the same time i would cutback dramatically for now and see if that helps. as justjumpit suggested lay off for maybe a month. very little goes a very long way.
also "Actually I have heard gular edema can be caused by oversupplementation of vitamin A" what are you currently feeding the crickets? carrots could be topping off the excess in the multivit.
and in closing the main reason i dont agree with "schedule for supplements plain calcium without D3 daily, D3 twice a month, multivitamin twice a month." is there are other factors in diet that may make this imbalanced. such as the type of feeders, the frequency of feedings the amount of feeders per feeding, hydration, feeder food/gutloads, and even lighting/temperatures and how that effects their metabolism. buuuuuut all that is just nit picking.
calcium without D3 daily, D3 twice a month, multivitamin twice a month is pretty much the safest recommendation without any sort of elaboration. thats why its recommended lol.
good luck, oh and this has only happened to me when the girls get gravid so id get a bin ready even though she still looks a bit young.
Elizadolots
New Member
Exactly. That's a safe starting supplement regimen. Experienced owners will do different things in different circumstances.
DekuScrub
Avid Member
yup, why? am i spewing misinformation?
CarlyMK
New Member
Hi DekuScrub,
I appreciate all the advice and attention you've given to this issue. I am feeding the crickets calcium infused cricket drink and the regular granola looking food. I haven't given them anything special except for some strawberry the first week I had her, they seemed to like it but I haven't given them anything different since. How do you gut load your crickets? Is that the only insect you're gut loading? I only have wax worms, crickets, meal worms and super worms at my disposal for now.
I gave her a multivitamin about two weeks ago, the rest has been calcium. I'm not sure if it's +D3 I will have to look into that..giving the crickets extra calcium in their drink might also have something to do with it?
Tonight I noticed she was at the bottom of the cage, she doesn't normally do this so I figured it is time I put the bin in for her. She really hasn't been eating much the past couple days but took some wax worms from my hand this afternoon.
I appreciate all the advice and attention you've given to this issue. I am feeding the crickets calcium infused cricket drink and the regular granola looking food. I haven't given them anything special except for some strawberry the first week I had her, they seemed to like it but I haven't given them anything different since. How do you gut load your crickets? Is that the only insect you're gut loading? I only have wax worms, crickets, meal worms and super worms at my disposal for now.
I gave her a multivitamin about two weeks ago, the rest has been calcium. I'm not sure if it's +D3 I will have to look into that..giving the crickets extra calcium in their drink might also have something to do with it?
Tonight I noticed she was at the bottom of the cage, she doesn't normally do this so I figured it is time I put the bin in for her. She really hasn't been eating much the past couple days but took some wax worms from my hand this afternoon.
Gut loading really just comes down to what you feed your feeders. Lots of good info here.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/nutritional-information/
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/nutritional-information/
DekuScrub
Avid Member
carol and mcbdz have it right go with sandras concoctions. if youre buying the fluckers gutload its better than nothing but not so good. and forget feeding your feeders calcium whatever. use the dust. repcal will do just fine. pink lable.
at the very least get some quality spirulina and grind it to a dust for your crickets to eat. no joke youll see them jumping more than twice as high after eatting the stuff.
i think its even in Naked juices "green machine" pretty excellent.
drop the wax worms and the mealies. most people will agree.
and follow that link. a little reseach goes a long way.
at the very least get some quality spirulina and grind it to a dust for your crickets to eat. no joke youll see them jumping more than twice as high after eatting the stuff.
i think its even in Naked juices "green machine" pretty excellent.
drop the wax worms and the mealies. most people will agree.
and follow that link. a little reseach goes a long way.
Elizadolots
New Member
Definitely check the calcium and definitely get the laying bin in there! I tend to think any female over 4 months should at least have a place she can go show you she's thinking about digging.
CarlyMK
New Member
Hello. I want to thank everyone for all their insight and help. Unfortunately, Ricky passed away about two weeks ago. Her condition began to worsen over the past month, her eyes became more swollen, her throat had reduced in size though. She began sleeping during the day and closing her eyes, I slowly began to give her calcium and gave her the multivitamin with D3 once, as my initial suspicion was that she was getting too much Vitamin A.
The last 4 days before she passed she did not eat anything, her eye began to stay closed as there was a clear liquid coming out, she only knew my presence if I touched her, which leads me to believe that she could not see. She was obviously hungry but could not see the crickets, I attempted to give her wax worms with no luck.
I've been reading into the opinions people have about the Coil vs tube UVB lighting, I have a 5.0 Resptisun UVB light in a dome, I'm going to be getting rid of this as I sm hoping to have a new cham. within the next couple weeks.
-Should I have the tube light at the front of the enclosure? and keep the basking light at the back?
-how far should the basking light and UVB light be from the cham?
I'd appreciate some advice, I did contact a tropical animal vet who deals with chams(who was the only one within two hours from my home) but she was out due to "illness." 3 days later after several attempts calling every vet in the area and them not being comfortable with chameleons, Ricky passed away.
The last 4 days before she passed she did not eat anything, her eye began to stay closed as there was a clear liquid coming out, she only knew my presence if I touched her, which leads me to believe that she could not see. She was obviously hungry but could not see the crickets, I attempted to give her wax worms with no luck.
I've been reading into the opinions people have about the Coil vs tube UVB lighting, I have a 5.0 Resptisun UVB light in a dome, I'm going to be getting rid of this as I sm hoping to have a new cham. within the next couple weeks.
-Should I have the tube light at the front of the enclosure? and keep the basking light at the back?
-how far should the basking light and UVB light be from the cham?
I'd appreciate some advice, I did contact a tropical animal vet who deals with chams(who was the only one within two hours from my home) but she was out due to "illness." 3 days later after several attempts calling every vet in the area and them not being comfortable with chameleons, Ricky passed away.
ChameleonMom
New Member
I am sorry to hear that Ricky passed away. She was a pretty little girl. I am curious if you had a chance to get a laying bin in the cage for her? She looked gravid to me although yes, a bit young - but it does happen. Either way, its too bad she's gone but I'm glad you're going to try again. I would like to chime in with a few suggestions, but please keep in mind that everyone has their own opinions on whats best for their chams. Its best to take in all the information, do your research and then apply the basics to your own situation and 'tweak' it as you go along.
First of all, take out the substrate. There is absolutely no reason for you to have this in the cage as it provides nothing beneficial to the cham and only raises the risk of a health problem. We had a member last week lose a Jackson's because it ate some deadfall off of a vine. The deadfall became stuck in its intestine and tried to work itself out however it got stuck in the cham's vent and then part of the stick poked itself through the skin on the leg and created quite a wound. There was nothing a vet could do and after a couple of days the cham passed.
Also, I have been keeping chams since 2007 and have always used a hood with coil UVB 5.0/26W bulbs. Most experienced cham keepers like the tubular bulbs but the coils work just as well. If you have read that you need to replace it, it is because a number of years ago the coils had a manufacturer's problem but that has since been fixed. Don't bother going to the expense of a new hood - the tubular hoods are quite expensive and trust me, what you have now is fine.
Now on to the supplementation issue and this is a matter of opinion - you should do your research and apply the information to your own situation as you see fit. The general rule of this forum is calcium without D3 at every feeding, calcium w/D3 twice a month and a multivitamin twice a month. Previously I had only been giving my chams the calcium w/D3 and a multvitamin at EVERY FEEDING, but realised I needed to tweak my own supp's as my 4 year old male veiled had chronic eye problems, gout and on/off again gular edema. After doing my own research I have implemented the supplement's AND the supplement schedule of this forum AND have added a teeny-weeny drop of preformed Vitamin A once every 15 days. It was my own decision to add the Vitamin A as I wanted to help Camo with his eyes, gout problem but you have to be extremely careful not to give too much VitA as they can overdose! So far my Camo is responding well - he's exploring more and appears more alert and happy. His eyes are still 'weepy' in the morning but I'm working on it and may perhaps 'tweak' my schedule a bit more in the next few months. If you want my advice I would start with the regimen of the forum and go from there.
Gutloading, as you well know is extremely important. If you are giving your feeders the cricket water (with calcium) I don't believe there is enough calcium in it to cause a problem in your chams...but it would be preferable for you to gutload with fruits and veggies and yes! check out SandraChameleon's blogs. She is a wealth of very good information and her blogs are a great read!
As for your light placement, I don't believe it really matters - as long as the lights are there and your cham has access to it, then the placement is a non-issue. There are some people here who have free-ranges and their cham's have access to the lights but aren't always near them. I personally have my UVB across the front of my cage and the basking light at the back. There is no right or wrong in this, its just what I prefer. Your basking light should be at least 8 inches above the highest basking point in your cage as your cham can become burned if it's any closer.
As for feeding, it would be best for your chameleon if you fed it in the (mid) morning or soon after 'lights on'. Your cham requires the lighting for proper digestion of its food so if you feed it later in the afternoon and then the lights go out soon after then your cham will sit all night with undigested food in its tummy with no benefit coming from the supplements and gutloading.
I would really recommend you research your supplements and supplementing schedule. As I mentioned, there are differing opinions on this, but as long as you know what you NEED to provide, as you become more experienced you can decide how much & when you want to supplement. This aspect of chameleon care is so VERY important and absolutely VITAL to its health.
A last note; I would source out a reputable reptile vet in your area in the event you have a health issue that needs immediate attention. The health of these little creatures can be so fragile that the difference between an hour to get it to the vet, or a day can be huge. Also, when your cham becomes sick there is a sense of panic (at least with me!) so the last thing I want to do is check Google or get out my Yellow Pages to hunt for an appropriate vet. It is also advisable, when you get a new chameleon, to take it to a vet for a fecal to rule out any parasites.
Good luck and I hope this helps. Again, sorry for your loss
First of all, take out the substrate. There is absolutely no reason for you to have this in the cage as it provides nothing beneficial to the cham and only raises the risk of a health problem. We had a member last week lose a Jackson's because it ate some deadfall off of a vine. The deadfall became stuck in its intestine and tried to work itself out however it got stuck in the cham's vent and then part of the stick poked itself through the skin on the leg and created quite a wound. There was nothing a vet could do and after a couple of days the cham passed.
Also, I have been keeping chams since 2007 and have always used a hood with coil UVB 5.0/26W bulbs. Most experienced cham keepers like the tubular bulbs but the coils work just as well. If you have read that you need to replace it, it is because a number of years ago the coils had a manufacturer's problem but that has since been fixed. Don't bother going to the expense of a new hood - the tubular hoods are quite expensive and trust me, what you have now is fine.
Now on to the supplementation issue and this is a matter of opinion - you should do your research and apply the information to your own situation as you see fit. The general rule of this forum is calcium without D3 at every feeding, calcium w/D3 twice a month and a multivitamin twice a month. Previously I had only been giving my chams the calcium w/D3 and a multvitamin at EVERY FEEDING, but realised I needed to tweak my own supp's as my 4 year old male veiled had chronic eye problems, gout and on/off again gular edema. After doing my own research I have implemented the supplement's AND the supplement schedule of this forum AND have added a teeny-weeny drop of preformed Vitamin A once every 15 days. It was my own decision to add the Vitamin A as I wanted to help Camo with his eyes, gout problem but you have to be extremely careful not to give too much VitA as they can overdose! So far my Camo is responding well - he's exploring more and appears more alert and happy. His eyes are still 'weepy' in the morning but I'm working on it and may perhaps 'tweak' my schedule a bit more in the next few months. If you want my advice I would start with the regimen of the forum and go from there.
Gutloading, as you well know is extremely important. If you are giving your feeders the cricket water (with calcium) I don't believe there is enough calcium in it to cause a problem in your chams...but it would be preferable for you to gutload with fruits and veggies and yes! check out SandraChameleon's blogs. She is a wealth of very good information and her blogs are a great read!
As for your light placement, I don't believe it really matters - as long as the lights are there and your cham has access to it, then the placement is a non-issue. There are some people here who have free-ranges and their cham's have access to the lights but aren't always near them. I personally have my UVB across the front of my cage and the basking light at the back. There is no right or wrong in this, its just what I prefer. Your basking light should be at least 8 inches above the highest basking point in your cage as your cham can become burned if it's any closer.
As for feeding, it would be best for your chameleon if you fed it in the (mid) morning or soon after 'lights on'. Your cham requires the lighting for proper digestion of its food so if you feed it later in the afternoon and then the lights go out soon after then your cham will sit all night with undigested food in its tummy with no benefit coming from the supplements and gutloading.
I would really recommend you research your supplements and supplementing schedule. As I mentioned, there are differing opinions on this, but as long as you know what you NEED to provide, as you become more experienced you can decide how much & when you want to supplement. This aspect of chameleon care is so VERY important and absolutely VITAL to its health.
A last note; I would source out a reputable reptile vet in your area in the event you have a health issue that needs immediate attention. The health of these little creatures can be so fragile that the difference between an hour to get it to the vet, or a day can be huge. Also, when your cham becomes sick there is a sense of panic (at least with me!) so the last thing I want to do is check Google or get out my Yellow Pages to hunt for an appropriate vet. It is also advisable, when you get a new chameleon, to take it to a vet for a fecal to rule out any parasites.
Good luck and I hope this helps. Again, sorry for your loss
Last edited:
CarlyMK
New Member
Hello, Thank you so much for the wonderful reply.
I did put a laying bin in as soon as it was recommended, probably for about 3 weeks. I kept the soil damp enough so she would be able to dig a hole, the bucket was 8 inches deep as well.
I have now taken out the substrate, thank you for letting me know it does more harm than good, and doesn't really need to be in there. If the basking light is less than 8 inches from the highest basking point, would it harm the chameleons eyes? Ricky had puffy eyes when she passed away.
That's great that you were able to tweak the supplements to your liking, thats something I'm still working on. What I was recommended with Ricky, was Calcium with D3 3 times a week, and multivitamin once every two weeks. I'm going to follow the general supplemental advised by this forum from now on.
As for gutloading, do you think I should get the regular cricket drink without Calcium? I give the crickets carrots and apples, and any fruit I have around. I have read to stay away from spinach, which is what I've done.
There is a vet within a hour from here, I will get the checkup done as you suggested. Thank you for your help, I will be posting photos of the new cage to get some opinions on it.
Thanks!
I did put a laying bin in as soon as it was recommended, probably for about 3 weeks. I kept the soil damp enough so she would be able to dig a hole, the bucket was 8 inches deep as well.
I have now taken out the substrate, thank you for letting me know it does more harm than good, and doesn't really need to be in there. If the basking light is less than 8 inches from the highest basking point, would it harm the chameleons eyes? Ricky had puffy eyes when she passed away.
That's great that you were able to tweak the supplements to your liking, thats something I'm still working on. What I was recommended with Ricky, was Calcium with D3 3 times a week, and multivitamin once every two weeks. I'm going to follow the general supplemental advised by this forum from now on.
As for gutloading, do you think I should get the regular cricket drink without Calcium? I give the crickets carrots and apples, and any fruit I have around. I have read to stay away from spinach, which is what I've done.
There is a vet within a hour from here, I will get the checkup done as you suggested. Thank you for your help, I will be posting photos of the new cage to get some opinions on it.
Thanks!
biochemnerd808
New Member
Do you have a laying bucket at the bottom of her cage, so that IF she needs to lay eggs, she can?
