Female panther not eating but very active

natzberg

Member
Hello! New to the forums. I have experience with reptiles in the past but not chameleons. We got our girl Becky about 2 weeks ago. I currently also have pet mantises so am not unfamiliar with more 'delicate' animals.

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
- female Panther chameleon, 8-9mo old (hatched 2/28 - 3/28). Been with us for 2 weeks

Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
- she's been really eager to get out of the cage, so almost daily. she doesn't seem to mind being held at all, and apparently her father also paws to get out of the cage. Not sure if personalities pass down but she keeps climbing out of the cage when I go to mist or adjust something.

Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
- offering food daily, but she hasn't accepted any for a week. Tried tong feeding, cup feeding, but letting her hunt results in bugs hiding. Currently it's 5 fresh large crickets in a cup in her enclosure, below her. All feeders are gut-load with fresh veggies or fruit rinsed before being given. I've seen the infographic from here, using stuff from that list. I've been doing a lot of research before posting and tried feeding her before lights on, soon after lights on, evening, and still no dice.

Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
-
ReptiCalcium with D3. I dusted the first stuff I gave her and now anything I offer since she hasn't been eating.

Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
-
spray bottle on cage walls plus big dripper in an area that i definitely have seen her use. I mist for a few minutes at a time with a small spray bottle, the same distilled water I use for my mantises.

Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
-
i assume she was tested for parasites but she has a general wellness checkup tomorrow. plus bringing up current issue anyway. Her last poop was fine, white urate and normal consistency.

History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
I contacted her breeder, and she said that Becky was very active in their care. The first few days here she barely moved, so I don't know if her personality is coming out or not. She has NOT laid eggs before, so she could be receptive/looking for a male?

Cage Info:

Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Glass, ZooMed L 18"x18"x36" with mesh screen on top

Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
ZooMed Paludarium Hood, 60W reptisun basking lamp, 5.0 UVB bulb
(from my research maybe we need a stronger UVB bulb? or the combo deep dome dual lamp instead since the bulbs will fit)

Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
analog temp/humidity gauge. ambient temp is about 70-75, basking is 80+. lowest overnight temp is 70 because we turn on the heat then. digital display for A/C, so can see that the temp outside the cage doesnt fall too much.
I am definitely looking at getting another temperature gauge so i can place one in the basking and one towards the middle/bottom of the cage. I've also heard at least regarding mantis groups that analogs are not always the most accurate but mantis cages are much smaller, is this true for a large cage?

Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
40-50% during the day, 70-80% at night. Misting twice a day at minimum. Paper towel on bottom of cage. Added a coco liner plant hanger, currently growing a fern for it. Hibiscus plant

Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
just one hibiscus plant right now. Have a lot of f

Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
The cage sits on the floor beside a computer desk. It is close-ish to the desktop PC but at least 1.5ft away still, and PC vent is perpendicular to the cage. It is in our 2nd bedroom and is not high traffic except when I enter to do work on opposite side of the room, or when my boyfriend goes to the closer side to do homework or play games on his computer

Location - Where are you geographically located?
Northern Virginia, west of DC

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
she has not eaten for a week and is VERY restless. she constantly tries to get out of her cage. I've tried adding more hiding spots, moving her lights for better basking, more sticks, adding a lay bin, but she's always just trying to get out (horizontal) not trying to go digging
the possibilities i currently think it could be in order of likelihood (correct me if wrong!):
- receptive, looking for a male
- personality, just likes to be active and explore
- gravid, looking for a place to lay
- unhappy with cage

Attaching some photos. Please note I really have done a lot of research and digging on these forums, so I tried to answer as much as I could. Her eyes are not sunken in, no injuries, just won't eat and is restless. I want to get ahead of the point of no return. If she's doing fine and I'm just overly anxious, that will make me feel immensely better!! Also, she has a vet appointment tomorrow at 1:30pm, I just want to get other experienced eyes on the situation as well in case the vet experience doesn't go well.

Editing to add: if you can't see it, the lay bin I'm using for her right now is an exoterra I had leftover from a beetle I had temporarily. It has ReptiSoil in it (holds tunnels) and twoo sticks so she can climb out. I'll try blocking ooff the lower part of the cage so she can't be seen.

Sorry for the photo qualities, my phone isn't the greatest.

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The last pic is the very first day we got her home after driving home from the reptile expo.
 

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Hello! New to the forums. I have experience with reptiles in the past but not chameleons. We got our girl Becky about 2 weeks ago. I currently also have pet mantises so am not unfamiliar with more 'delicate' animals.

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
- female Panther chameleon, 8-9mo old (hatched 2/28 - 3/28). Been with us for 2 weeks

Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
- she's been really eager to get out of the cage, so almost daily. she doesn't seem to mind being held at all, and apparently her father also paws to get out of the cage. Not sure if personalities pass down but she keeps climbing out of the cage when I go to mist or adjust something.

Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
- offering food daily, but she hasn't accepted any for a week. Tried tong feeding, cup feeding, but letting her hunt results in bugs hiding. Currently it's 5 fresh large crickets in a cup in her enclosure, below her. All feeders are gut-load with fresh veggies or fruit rinsed before being given. I've seen the infographic from here, using stuff from that list. I've been doing a lot of research before posting and tried feeding her before lights on, soon after lights on, evening, and still no dice.

Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
-
ReptiCalcium with D3. I dusted the first stuff I gave her and now anything I offer since she hasn't been eating.

Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
-
spray bottle on cage walls plus big dripper in an area that i definitely have seen her use. I mist for a few minutes at a time with a small spray bottle, the same distilled water I use for my mantises.

Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
-
i assume she was tested for parasites but she has a general wellness checkup tomorrow. plus bringing up current issue anyway. Her last poop was fine, white urate and normal consistency.

History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
I contacted her breeder, and she said that Becky was very active in their care. The first few days here she barely moved, so I don't know if her personality is coming out or not. She has NOT laid eggs before, so she could be receptive/looking for a male?

Cage Info:

Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Glass, ZooMed L 18"x18"x36" with mesh screen on top

Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
ZooMed Paludarium Hood, 60W reptisun basking lamp, 5.0 UVB bulb
(from my research maybe we need a stronger UVB bulb? or the combo deep dome dual lamp instead since the bulbs will fit)

Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
analog temp/humidity gauge. ambient temp is about 70-75, basking is 80+. lowest overnight temp is 70 because we turn on the heat then. digital display for A/C, so can see that the temp outside the cage doesnt fall too much.
I am definitely looking at getting another temperature gauge so i can place one in the basking and one towards the middle/bottom of the cage. I've also heard at least regarding mantis groups that analogs are not always the most accurate but mantis cages are much smaller, is this true for a large cage?

Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
40-50% during the day, 70-80% at night. Misting twice a day at minimum. Paper towel on bottom of cage. Added a coco liner plant hanger, currently growing a fern for it. Hibiscus plant

Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
just one hibiscus plant right now. Have a lot of f

Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
The cage sits on the floor beside a computer desk. It is close-ish to the desktop PC but at least 1.5ft away still, and PC vent is perpendicular to the cage. It is in our 2nd bedroom and is not high traffic except when I enter to do work on opposite side of the room, or when my boyfriend goes to the closer side to do homework or play games on his computer

Location - Where are you geographically located?
Northern Virginia, west of DC

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
she has not eaten for a week and is VERY restless. she constantly tries to get out of her cage. I've tried adding more hiding spots, moving her lights for better basking, more sticks, adding a lay bin, but she's always just trying to get out (horizontal) not trying to go digging
the possibilities i currently think it could be in order of likelihood (correct me if wrong!):
- receptive, looking for a male
- personality, just likes to be active and explore
- gravid, looking for a place to lay
- unhappy with cage

Attaching some photos. Please note I really have done a lot of research and digging on these forums, so I tried to answer as much as I could. Her eyes are not sunken in, no injuries, just won't eat and is restless. I want to get ahead of the point of no return. If she's doing fine and I'm just overly anxious, that will make me feel immensely better!! Also, she has a vet appointment tomorrow at 1:30pm, I just want to get other experienced eyes on the situation as well in case the vet experience doesn't go well.

Sorry for the photo qualities, my phone isn't the greatest.

View attachment 280592View attachment 280594View attachment 280595View attachment 280596

The last pic is the very first day we got her home after driving home from the reptile expo.
Lay bum asap
 
Thanks. I just put flat cardboard boxes up around the side of the cage by the lay bin which is in the back of the enclosure. Hopefully she can figure it out. I was expecting her to shed soon not lay eggs!!

If she doesn't lay eggs this week, should I book another vet appointment? Or how long should I wait before being worried about eggbound?
 
Thanks. I just put flat cardboard boxes up around the side of the cage by the lay bin which is in the back of the enclosure. Hopefully she can figure it out. I was expecting her to shed soon not lay eggs!!

If she doesn't lay eggs this week, should I book another vet appointment? Or how long should I wait before being worried about eggbound?
@kinyonga is probably a better source here. I started having better success with laying when I stopped using lay bins, but instead just allowed 6” of decent substrate over the entire cage bottom. But that is not always possible, so please hit up others for advice more appropriate for your situation.
 
Hello! I see that her supplement schedule is needing to be changed. Calcium with d3 only twice a month, Vitamin with d3 twice a month, and calcium without d3 every feeding. With the supplements with d3 alternate every week on which one you use. Also, I would recommend adding some fake plants such as pothos, umbrella trees.
 
@kinyonga is probably a better source here. I started having better success with laying when I stopped using lay bins, but instead just allowed 6” of decent substrate over the entire cage bottom. But that is not always possible, so please hit up others for advice more appropriate for your situation.

I saw a lot of things suggesting that having a substrate can cause mold issues. The cage has room at the bottom for the reptisoil, but is this a good idea? I don't know how feasible it is for us to change the soil every week at this point in time, where the paper towels are much easier.
 
Hello! I see that her supplement schedule is needing to be changed. Calcium with d3 only twice a month, Vitamin with d3 twice a month, and calcium without d3 every feeding. With the supplements with d3 alternate every week on which one you use. Also, I would recommend adding some fake plants such as pothos, umbrella trees.
As soon as she starts eating normally again I'll do this! She's literally only eaten twice with us :( but I keep seeing such variable feeding schedules re: whether to feed her every other day, every 2-3days skipping weekends, etc. But thank you, will get on this!!

I will probably get a small pothos for the plant hanger that is in there when I can. I was originally worried about overcrowding her cage.
 
Egg laying bin...


Also...I would recommend adding some more branches for her to get to the laybin and real plants that are nontoxic and well washed...both sides of the leaves.
 
As soon as she starts eating normally again I'll do this! She's literally only eaten twice with us :( but I keep seeing such variable feeding schedules re: whether to feed her every other day, every 2-3days skipping weekends, etc. But thank you, will get on this!!

I will probably get a small pothos for the plant hanger that is in there when I can. I was originally worried about overcrowding her cage.
Absolutely! I have a pothos for my veiled, and she loves it! and eats it I do not believe panthers eat foliage, so I don't think she would eat it. I do hope she starts accepting food! :D (y) ?
 
I saw a lot of things suggesting that having a substrate can cause mold issues. The cage has room at the bottom for the reptisoil, but is this a good idea? I don't know how feasible it is for us to change the soil every week at this point in time, where the paper towels are much easier.
I’m not trying to sway you either way. Mold sucks, as do fungus gnats and fruit flies. All these things are possibilities if substrate isn’t done correctly. What about a “laybin “ that occupies the entire bottom? When she lays, you can remove it, and go back to the way it was.
 
Egg laying bin...


Also...I would recommend adding some more branches for her to get to the laybin and real plants that are nontoxic and well washed...both sides of the leaves.

My lay bin is based off of this, I used reptisoil since I was worried about getting the wrong kind of sand. If she doesn't lay soon, I'll move the cage to the closet for a bit so she has complete privacy. There's two branches sticking out of it, but I'm considering just putting the braided hibiscus into a bigger pot with the soil.

I've put her in the lay bin twice now and she immediately climbed out of it, so hopefully she takes a look at night or when both of us are out of the room??
Why are animals so difficult lol, I'm trying to make things easier for you!! :p
 
Now that you've shown her the laybin...leave her be. If she starts to dig don't let her see you watching her. Also, don't make too many changes...you don't want to disturb her so much that she doesn't lay.
 
I’m not trying to sway you either way. Mold sucks, as do fungus gnats and fruit flies. All these things are possibilities if substrate isn’t done correctly. What about a “laybin “ that occupies the entire bottom? When she lays, you can remove it, and go back to the way it was.
I'll probably look into that this weekend in case she rejects the current bin in there. She really isn't hanging out at the bottom of the cage at all which is why i was confused whether she was getting ready to lay. Plus, a bin is much easier removal. Thank you!

Thank you @kinyonga I'll do just that!!

Y'all are awesome!!
 
I am going to go through your help form since that has not been done. Let me know if you have any questions.

Hello! New to the forums. I have experience with reptiles in the past but not chameleons. We got our girl Becky about 2 weeks ago. I currently also have pet mantises so am not unfamiliar with more 'delicate' animals.

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
- female Panther chameleon, 8-9mo old (hatched 2/28 - 3/28). Been with us for 2 weeks

Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
- she's been really eager to get out of the cage, so almost daily. she doesn't seem to mind being held at all, and apparently her father also paws to get out of the cage. Not sure if personalities pass down but she keeps climbing out of the cage when I go to mist or adjust something.

Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
- offering food daily, but she hasn't accepted any for a week. Tried tong feeding, cup feeding, but letting her hunt results in bugs hiding. Currently it's 5 fresh large crickets in a cup in her enclosure, below her. All feeders are gut-load with fresh veggies or fruit rinsed before being given. I've seen the infographic from here, using stuff from that list. I've been doing a lot of research before posting and tried feeding her before lights on, soon after lights on, evening, and still no dice. She should only be eating every other day now. 3 -4 small feeders. Most will put their females on a schedule of 3 days a week. This is important because the more you feed the larger the clutch they lay.

Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
-
ReptiCalcium with D3. I dusted the first stuff I gave her and now anything I offer since she hasn't been eating. You are giving this too often. You need to get calcium without D3 and this would be used at every feeding. Then 2 times a month calcium with D3 and 2 times a month a multivitamin without D3. Reptivite is a good multi. These two get rotated week to week at one feeding.

Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
-
spray bottle on cage walls plus big dripper in an area that i definitely have seen her use. I mist for a few minutes at a time with a small spray bottle, the same distilled water I use for my mantises.

Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
-
i assume she was tested for parasites but she has a general wellness checkup tomorrow. plus bringing up current issue anyway. Her last poop was fine, white urate and normal consistency.

History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
I contacted her breeder, and she said that Becky was very active in their care. The first few days here she barely moved, so I don't know if her personality is coming out or not. She has NOT laid eggs before, so she could be receptive/looking for a male?

Cage Info:

Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Glass, ZooMed L 18"x18"x36" with mesh screen on top

Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
ZooMed Paludarium Hood, 60W reptisun basking lamp, 5.0 UVB bulb
(from my research maybe we need a stronger UVB bulb? or the combo deep dome dual lamp instead since the bulbs will fit) So you actually need a t5HO fixture and a 5.0 or 6% bulb for it. WIth this basking level would be 9 inches below it. The compact bulbs do not work well at all and chams do not typically get the UVB they need because they have an extremely shallow output of only a few inches.

Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?

analog temp/humidity gauge. ambient temp is about 70-75, basking is 80+. lowest overnight temp is 70 because we turn on the heat then. digital display for A/C, so can see that the temp outside the cage doesnt fall too much. So basking should be 78-80max. This and food intake cause larger clutches. You should not be adding heat at night. They need the temp drop. They can handle down to 50 but you need to provide at least a 10 degree temp drop. So no night time heating should be placed.
I am definitely looking at getting another temperature gauge so i can place one in the basking and one towards the middle/bottom of the cage. I've also heard at least regarding mantis groups that analogs are not always the most accurate but mantis cages are much smaller, is this true for a large cage?

Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
40-50% during the day, 70-80% at night. Misting twice a day at minimum. Paper towel on bottom of cage. Added a coco liner plant hanger, currently growing a fern for it. Hibiscus plant. Misting once in the morning and once in the evening is fine. Just mist all her plants.

Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?

just one hibiscus plant right now. Have a lot of f

Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
The cage sits on the floor beside a computer desk. It is close-ish to the desktop PC but at least 1.5ft away still, and PC vent is perpendicular to the cage. It is in our 2nd bedroom and is not high traffic except when I enter to do work on opposite side of the room, or when my boyfriend goes to the closer side to do homework or play games on his computer

Location - Where are you geographically located?
Northern Virginia, west of DC

Additional info...
Accurate info and Product links for things I like:

https://chameleonacademy.com/

https://www.chameleonbreeder.com/

https://www.youtube.com/c/NeptunetheChameleon?sub_confirmation=1

www.dragonstrand.com

https://tkchameleons.com/collections/accessories/products/shooting-gallery
 
I am going to go through your help form since that has not been done. Let me know if you have any questions.

[...]

Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
- offering food daily, but she hasn't accepted any for a week. Tried tong feeding, cup feeding, but letting her hunt results in bugs hiding. Currently it's 5 fresh large crickets in a cup in her enclosure, below her. All feeders are gut-load with fresh veggies or fruit rinsed before being given. I've seen the infographic from here, using stuff from that list. I've been doing a lot of research before posting and tried feeding her before lights on, soon after lights on, evening, and still no dice. She should only be eating every other day now. 3 -4 small feeders. Most will put their females on a schedule of 3 days a week. This is important because the more you feed the larger the clutch they lay.

Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
-
ReptiCalcium with D3. I dusted the first stuff I gave her and now anything I offer since she hasn't been eating. You are giving this too often. You need to get calcium without D3 and this would be used at every feeding. Then 2 times a month calcium with D3 and 2 times a month a multivitamin without D3. Reptivite is a good multi. These two get rotated week to week at one feeding.

[....]

Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
ZooMed Paludarium Hood, 60W reptisun basking lamp, 5.0 UVB bulb
(from my research maybe we need a stronger UVB bulb? or the combo deep dome dual lamp instead since the bulbs will fit) So you actually need a t5HO fixture and a 5.0 or 6% bulb for it. WIth this basking level would be 9 inches below it. The compact bulbs do not work well at all and chams do not typically get the UVB they need because they have an extremely shallow output of only a few inches.

Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?

analog temp/humidity gauge. ambient temp is about 70-75, basking is 80+. lowest overnight temp is 70 because we turn on the heat then. digital display for A/C, so can see that the temp outside the cage doesnt fall too much. So basking should be 78-80max. This and food intake cause larger clutches. You should not be adding heat at night. They need the temp drop. They can handle down to 50 but you need to provide at least a 10 degree temp drop. So no night time heating should be placed.
I am definitely looking at getting another temperature gauge so i can place one in the basking and one towards the middle/bottom of the cage. I've also heard at least regarding mantis groups that analogs are not always the most accurate but mantis cages are much smaller, is this true for a large cage?

Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
40-50% during the day, 70-80% at night. Misting twice a day at minimum. Paper towel on bottom of cage. Added a coco liner plant hanger, currently growing a fern for it. Hibiscus plant. Misting once in the morning and once in the evening is fine. Just mist all her plants.
...

Re: feeding
She hasn't eaten since last Tuesday, which is why I was offering with D3. But I have this written down now and am getting calcium without D3 tonight. Got Reptivite from the vet!

Re: lighting
Ok, that's doable. Might just replace the compact bulb with a plant light then. Thank you! I also propped the lamp up so it is farther from the cage, increasing distance.

Re: temp
The 70 I meant is within the apartment. We turn on the heat in the apartment, NOT her cage. Her lights stay off the whole night. Sorry if that was unclear! But it also makes me feel better that I don't have to sacrifice my nighttime cooling :)
I am going to track the temperatures these next few days since I moved the lamp to be high above her cage.

Re: humidity
Thanks, the vet was suggesting misting more often and I was kind of like ??? at that. But maybe I didn't converse well enough lol.


THANK YOU for going through paragraph by paragraph! Not that anyone else's advice wasn't good enough, but going through each part is EXCELLENT :D
 
@natzberg
Re: feeding
She hasn't eaten since last Tuesday, which is why I was offering with D3. But I have this written down now and am getting calcium without D3 tonight. Got Reptivite from the vet! Perfect is the reptivite with d3 or without d3?

Re: lighting
Ok, that's doable. Might just replace the compact bulb with a plant light then. Thank you! I also propped the lamp up so it is farther from the cage, increasing distance. THat totally works and let me know if you have questions on the UVB fixture and bulb. Distance with these it totally dependent on fixture type and bulb strength.

Re: temp
The 70 I meant is within the apartment. We turn on the heat in the apartment, NOT her cage. Her lights stay off the whole night. Sorry if that was unclear! But it also makes me feel better that I don't have to sacrifice my nighttime cooling :)
I am going to track the temperatures these next few days since I moved the lamp to be high above her cage. Great and yes no need to heat at night. I get my boys typically down to 63-65 at night. They can be taken down farther but the important thing is providing the temp drop.

Re: humidity
Thanks, the vet was suggesting misting more often and I was kind of like ??? at that. But maybe I didn't converse well enough lol. lol Yeah they will drink if they need to drink. All over misting does is creates an environment that does not dry out completely and then in turn grows bacteria which is harmful to them.


THANK YOU for going through paragraph by paragraph! Not that anyone else's advice wasn't good enough, but going through each part is EXCELLENT :D
Absolutely! This is what we typically do when we see a completed help form. Everyone was concerned for the potential of her being gravid. So we tend to attack the main issues first to ensure the cham gets what they need right away. :)
 
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