falling straight over
- Thread starter LBonawitz
- Start date
morpheon
New Member
Woah. I am no vet, but this is rather vague. Note that i am tired and won't spend much time thinking about it.
Off hand, i'd say these as POSSIBILITIES
-Neurological difficulties
-MBD
-Parasites
-Poor feeding/hydration
-Eye problems
-Broken limbs
-Age (too old...)
*shrug*
With pictures it would be easier, and with proper informations. However, your question sounds more like a quizz than an actual case. I may be wrong though!
Off hand, i'd say these as POSSIBILITIES
-Neurological difficulties
-MBD
-Parasites
-Poor feeding/hydration
-Eye problems
-Broken limbs
-Age (too old...)
*shrug*
With pictures it would be easier, and with proper informations. However, your question sounds more like a quizz than an actual case. I may be wrong though!
LBonawitz
Member
he has been in and out of the vet. over 6 culture tests, blood work, fecal checks, you name it. the vet cant find anything wrong. he just started all this about a month ago. hes only 4 years old, hes not an old man. He had an over growth of flora that we treated with amikacin and the recheck was clean, but hes not improving at all. the vet wont do another blood draw because she is afraid he has become anemic. So i've been feeding him silkworms from their protein. He's still eating and drinking, but moving around is his issue. when he lifts a leg to move it forward it shakes like he has parkinsons. His bloodwork showed that his calcium/phosphorus levels were fine, but the vet suggested giving him oral calcium as well (so i am)
I dont know what to do for my baby boy, hes going down hill, fast
I dont know what to do for my baby boy, hes going down hill, fast
Carlton
Chameleon Enthusiast
We can't help much without the "history" you haven't provided. Symptoms like this could be due to several things but we can't rule any out without more details in husbandry. We also don't know anything about the herp experience of your vet. So many vets don't have a clue about herp medical problems no matter how well intentioned they are.
For example...
Your diet could be perfect, but without the correct UV lighting it will be wasted.
Your UV light could be the right brand but simply too old.
Your dusting could be under or overdosed.
Your cham could have been exposed to a toxin or a pesticide on wild collected insects.
The cham could be a lot older than you realize if the person you got him from didn't know how to judge age.
You may be misinterpreting the behaviors you are seeing...the rocking and shaking could be attempts to look like a leaf in the wind...many chams under stress will do this. Some chams will even let themselves fall to the ground in an attempt to look like a dead leaf.
And then, there is the plain fact that no one really has cham husbandry and health issues all figured out. There are still unexplained problems no one can help with.
So, please help us help you and your vet. Give us the details of your cham's setup, lighting (brands and age), gutloading, supplements (what and how often), humidity and drinking schedule, cage placement, handling, other animals or activity he can see, etc.
For example...
Your diet could be perfect, but without the correct UV lighting it will be wasted.
Your UV light could be the right brand but simply too old.
Your dusting could be under or overdosed.
Your cham could have been exposed to a toxin or a pesticide on wild collected insects.
The cham could be a lot older than you realize if the person you got him from didn't know how to judge age.
You may be misinterpreting the behaviors you are seeing...the rocking and shaking could be attempts to look like a leaf in the wind...many chams under stress will do this. Some chams will even let themselves fall to the ground in an attempt to look like a dead leaf.
And then, there is the plain fact that no one really has cham husbandry and health issues all figured out. There are still unexplained problems no one can help with.
So, please help us help you and your vet. Give us the details of your cham's setup, lighting (brands and age), gutloading, supplements (what and how often), humidity and drinking schedule, cage placement, handling, other animals or activity he can see, etc.
Elizadolots
New Member
What's the lighting situation? From what I understand, even if you're getting enough calcium into the animal, if he's not getting the right UVB lighting he can still develop problems like MBD.
LBonawitz
Member
Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Poroto Mountain Three Horned Chameleon (Flapjack), I've had him for 4 years, i got him when he was 3 month old.
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
for the last week handling has been daily to administer calcium and to force hydrate
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Silkworm, Horn worms, Butterworms, Crickets (gut loaded on cricket crack), and Stick bugs. I offer him bugs daily, he normally eats, 1 (one) horn worm a day OR 2 silkies, OR 4 crickets. He has no interests in the other right now
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Dust with rep-cal w/o vit D3, and T-Rex w/ D3
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Water is automatic misting i just turned it down 2 weeks ago, to 3 times a day for 3 minutes each. his lights turn on at 8, first mist is at 10, then 1, and 4, lights out at 8
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
facal is normal brown, moist, with moist white urate
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
Fought pseudomonas for a couple months, over 6 months ago. he had an abcess at the corner of his mouth. Then a month ago he was blowing spit bubbles so the vet gave more amikacin for "pneumonia" that seems to have cleared up but we are left with a weak grip, shakey hands, and his balance is off
Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
home made screen cage. 3 feet tall, 2 feet across the front, and 1.5 feet deep. All screen with 1x1's at the corners.
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Mega Ray light. 3 months old (http://www.reptileuv.com/megaray-sb-100-watt-self-ballasted-flood-uvb-lamp.php) on at 8am / off at 8pm
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Since his pneumonia the vet said to keep his cage a little warmer. it now goes from 82 to about 67, before i maxed out about 74.
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
i use real plants to maintain humidity, i measure with a meter that is posted in his cage near his usual basking spot. humidity varies from 65% to 80% after the mister turns on
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
2 foot tall schefflera and pothos
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
the top of the cage is 5 feet from the ground, it is in the low traffic area
Location - Where are you geographically located?
Seattle, WA, USA
Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
weak grip, shaking hands (like parkinsons, not the leaf walk), balance is off
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Poroto Mountain Three Horned Chameleon (Flapjack), I've had him for 4 years, i got him when he was 3 month old.
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
for the last week handling has been daily to administer calcium and to force hydrate
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Silkworm, Horn worms, Butterworms, Crickets (gut loaded on cricket crack), and Stick bugs. I offer him bugs daily, he normally eats, 1 (one) horn worm a day OR 2 silkies, OR 4 crickets. He has no interests in the other right now
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Dust with rep-cal w/o vit D3, and T-Rex w/ D3
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Water is automatic misting i just turned it down 2 weeks ago, to 3 times a day for 3 minutes each. his lights turn on at 8, first mist is at 10, then 1, and 4, lights out at 8
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
facal is normal brown, moist, with moist white urate
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
Fought pseudomonas for a couple months, over 6 months ago. he had an abcess at the corner of his mouth. Then a month ago he was blowing spit bubbles so the vet gave more amikacin for "pneumonia" that seems to have cleared up but we are left with a weak grip, shakey hands, and his balance is off
Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
home made screen cage. 3 feet tall, 2 feet across the front, and 1.5 feet deep. All screen with 1x1's at the corners.
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Mega Ray light. 3 months old (http://www.reptileuv.com/megaray-sb-100-watt-self-ballasted-flood-uvb-lamp.php) on at 8am / off at 8pm
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Since his pneumonia the vet said to keep his cage a little warmer. it now goes from 82 to about 67, before i maxed out about 74.
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
i use real plants to maintain humidity, i measure with a meter that is posted in his cage near his usual basking spot. humidity varies from 65% to 80% after the mister turns on
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
2 foot tall schefflera and pothos
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
the top of the cage is 5 feet from the ground, it is in the low traffic area
Location - Where are you geographically located?
Seattle, WA, USA
Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
weak grip, shaking hands (like parkinsons, not the leaf walk), balance is off
Texas Panther Man
New Member
Have you tried giving him any reptaid? Ive heard it really helps them bounce back after going thru antibiotic treatments. Just a thought.
Don't forget this is to do with humans...but who knows how it affects chameleons?
http://doublecheckmd.com/EffectsDet...7611D9FF71B?dname=amikacin&sid=12022&eid=1091
http://www.drugs.com/cdi/amikacin.html
http://doublecheckmd.com/EffectsDet...7611D9FF71B?dname=amikacin&sid=12022&eid=1091
http://www.drugs.com/cdi/amikacin.html
LBonawitz
Member
I actually just bought reptaid this last weekend at the rep. show that went on here. its only day 3 of using it, haven't seen any improvement yet
LBonawitz
Member
thats some scarey information. thank you for sharing it, i had no idea
I can't be sure that the amikacin is the reason for your chameleon's state...it would be best to ask your vet. My experience with amikacin is limited. It was given to one of my coneheads...she immediately fell to the floor of the cage as though she was dizzy or disoriented. A panther had amikacin but was only given it for a couple of days because I didn't like its behavior (turned out the eye was not swollen due to an infection, but from cancer and no antibiotics were needed.) I know it was used on a third lizard of mine but I can't remember what happened to the lizard right now.
Elizadolots
New Member
LBonawitz. how long since the Chameleon has had Amikacin? I'm sorry if I'm forgetting something you mentioned.
Kinyonga, do you have any feel for, or information, on how long that drug can affect the patient? Or did I fail to read far enough into the articles?
Kinyonga, do you have any feel for, or information, on how long that drug can affect the patient? Or did I fail to read far enough into the articles?
Elizadolots
New Member
So, do you think the balance issues would continue? I can sort of see that going both ways....I think a loss of hearing in a chameleon would be a minimal disability as I don't think they hear that much. But if it kept disrupting balance, that would be a problem.
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