Eye issues

[Aldebaran]

Good day everyone,

I’ve been having issues with my boy panther. He has been off crickets for a while now, he just looks at them in disgust. Living in Canada, the choices are slim. No roaches, locusts nada. I have been giving him horn worms on occasion, super worms every other day and 2 pinkies Once a month. Supplementation Schedule is as recommend in this forum with reptivite brand for calcium and D3 and repashy multi vit.. Hot spot is 86.c, humidity 50-85%, uv T5 HO tube light. Enclosure size is 6’ Hx 4’ w x 2.5’ D. Automatic everything.

The issue is he seems to be moving his eye ball inside continuously as if something is in it. I have caught him with his eyes closed several times in 2 days.
Could it be vit A deficiency?
thank you

 

[Beman]

Good day everyone,

I’ve been having issues with my boy panther. He has been off crickets for a while now, he just looks at them in disgust. Living in Canada, the choices are slim. No roaches, locusts nada. I have been giving him horn worms on occasion, super worms every other day and 2 pinkies Once a month. Supplementation Schedule is as recommend in this forum with reptivite brand for calcium and D3 and repashy multi vit.. Hot spot is 86.c, humidity 50-85%, uv T5 HO tube light. Enclosure size is 6’ Hx 4’ w x 2.5’ D. Automatic everything.

The issue is he seems to be moving his eye ball inside continuously as if something is in it. I have caught him with his eyes closed several times in 2 days.
Could it be vit A deficiency?
thank you

You should not be giving the pinkies... This really is quite controversial at most people that do this will do it once a year. Animal protein reacts differently in their bodies vs that from insects.

Reptivite has vitamin A in it and those pinkies you have been giving him are loaded with it. My guess is it is not a deficiency at all but too much preformed A from the pinkies your giving consistently.

If you can fill out this form with detail and include pics of your enclosure lights down we can give you more feedback.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[Aldebaran]

Okay....
1 1/2 year old panther male in my care for one year approx.
Fed every other day, previously with crickets as a staple but no longer, superworms once a week. Crickets fed mainly household veggies with some fruit. He goes for a stroll once a week if he wants to come out on his own. I recently graduated and received my diploma in ‘walking Tree’ we’ve built that trust which took a good 8 months. He is on the timid side.
Reptive calcium every other feeding, reptivite calcium with D3 every other Friday, repashy multivite every other Friday-not the same day as the D3. Cage is misted once a week for his ‘bath’ fogger runs at night only. With all the live plants the humidity is stable even without the fogger if misted once a week. I have seen him drink, poop is stills light orange, always has been. A circuit watering system creates ‘rain fall’ bucket changed every other day using a digital meter. Basking temp is 86.f, night is 70.f. Digitally measured.
plants: hibiscus, Boston ferns, small croton, spider plant, queen pothos, snake plant, corn plant.
enclosure, screen, 6’x4’x2 1/2’.
light:? Reptisun T5HO tube light, LEDs for the plants, ceramic heat emitter for heat. Cage is not is a heavy traffic area or near any drafts. Located in Alberta Canada.

issue: his aim has been off for some time, thought is was just a lack of practice but someone suggested vit A deficiency. He has eaten 4 pinkies in his lifetime. Kind of struggling here with his food. He started showing signs of edema even with the multivitamin two week interval so I cut down. The pinkies were given to keep him going until his cricket strike was over. His aim is still off a bit.
thank you

 

[Beman]

Okay....
1 1/2 year old panther male in my care for one year approx.
Fed every other day, previously with crickets as a staple but no longer, superworms once a week. Crickets fed mainly household veggies with some fruit. He goes for a stroll once a week if he wants to come out on his own. I recently graduated and received my diploma in ‘walking Tree’ we’ve built that trust which took a good 8 months. He is on the timid side.
Reptive calcium every other feeding, reptivite calcium with D3 every other Friday, repashy multivite every other Friday-not the same day as the D3. Cage is misted once a week for his ‘bath’ fogger runs at night only. With all the live plants the humidity is stable even without the fogger if misted once a week. I have seen him drink, poop is stills light orange, always has been. A circuit watering system creates ‘rain fall’ bucket changed every other day using a digital meter. Basking temp is 86.f, night is 70.f. Digitally measured.
plants: hibiscus, Boston ferns, small croton, spider plant, queen pothos, snake plant, corn plant.
enclosure, screen, 6’x4’x2 1/2’.
light:? Reptisun T5HO tube light, LEDs for the plants, ceramic heat emitter for heat. Cage is not is a heavy traffic area or near any drafts. Located in Alberta Canada.

issue: his aim has been off for some time, thought is was just a lack of practice but someone suggested vit A deficiency. He has eaten 4 pinkies in his lifetime. Kind of struggling here with his food. He started showing signs of edema even with the multivitamin two week interval so I cut down. The pinkies were given to keep him going until his cricket strike was over. His aim is still off a bit.
thank you

Ok so quite a bit is off here... Can you post pics for me of the entire enclosure lights down. I also need to know what type of UVB bulb your using a 5.0, 10.0, 69% or a 12%.

Can you include a picture of the supplements for me as well. Your definitely overdoing it with vitamin A as Reptivite and Repashy multivite have it. But I just want to make sure I am understanding what your using.

Edema can be from the over supplementation and the pinkies. Edema can also be linked to liver and kidney issues.

 

[Aldebaran]

Ok so quite a bit is off here... Can you post pics for me of the entire enclosure lights down. I also need to know what type of UVB bulb your using a 5.0, 10.0, 69% or a 12%.

Can you include a picture of the supplements for me as well. Your definitely overdoing it with vitamin A as Reptivite and Repashy multivite have it. But I just want to make sure I am understanding what your using.

Edema can be from the over supplementation and the pinkies. Edema can also be linked to liver and kidney issues.

the light is a reptisun T5 5.0, sorry missed that. The multi vitamin is repashy twice a month. Reptivite D3 calcium twice a month and reptivite calcium only every other feeding.

 

[Beman]

the light is a reptisun T5 5.0, sorry missed that. The multi vitamin is repashy twice a month. Reptivite D3 calcium twice a month and reptivite calcium only every other feeding.

Ok great but the pics of the supplements would really help... Repashy has many supplements. Reptivite if that is in fact what you are using for both is the same thing one with D3 and one without D3 but it is a multivitamin that has those added. So I just want to make sure so that I am giving you the very best feedback possible.

 

[Aldebaran]

Pics

 

[Aldebaran]

Ok great but the pics of the supplements would really help... Repashy has many supplements. Reptivite if that is in fact what you are using for both is the same thing one with D3 and one without D3 but it is a multivitamin that has those added. So I just want to make sure so that I am giving you the very best feedback possible.

Okay. Going to take the pic....

 

[Aldebaran]

Supplements

 

[Beman]

@Aldebaran Ok I am going to go through this with my feedback and questions in red bold.

1 1/2 year old panther male in my care for one year approx.
Fed every other day, previously with crickets as a staple but no longer, superworms once a week. Crickets fed mainly household veggies with some fruit. So at his age he should be eating 3 feeders every other day or 3 days a week say Monday, Thursday and Saturday. Superworms are high in fat they can be used as treats or maybe 1 each feeding but not the whole of the diet. There are other options for feeders in Canada and I am tagging in another Canadian that can assist with options for that. @Kaizen

He goes for a stroll once a week if he wants to come out on his own. I recently graduated and received my diploma in ‘walking Tree’ we’ve built that trust which took a good 8 months. He is on the timid side.
Reptive calcium every other feeding, reptivite calcium with D3 every other Friday, repashy multivite every other Friday-not the same day as the D3. Need pics to be sure before I give you info.

Cage is misted once a week for his ‘bath’ fogger runs at night only. With all the live plants the humidity is stable even without the fogger if misted once a week. I have seen him drink,
You really want to be misting each evening after the basking fixture kicks off so this gives him the opportunity to clean his eyes. fogger is great at night but temps should be below 67 when using this. HEat and moisture can lead to an RI.
poop is stills light orange, always has been. IF the whole urate is orange this can indicate dehydration adding misting sessions will help this.
A circuit watering system creates ‘rain fall’ bucket changed every other day Not sure what you mean by this... Be cautious with anything that you are recycling water through that they are drinking. This is a high risk for bacterial infections.

using a digital meter. Basking temp is 86.f, night is 70.f. Digitally measured. So daytime temp at basking is within limits. Typically no hotter then 80-85max. But night time temps are a bit warm. You really want to at least get it down to 65. Make sure your not running the ceramic heat emitter at night.
plants: hibiscus, Boston ferns, small croton, spider plant, queen pothos, snake plant, corn plant. great.
enclosure, screen, 6’x4’x2 1/2’.
light:? Reptisun T5HO tube light,What is your distance from the bottom of the T5 to the closest basking branch below it? Are you using a single bulb T5HO fixture? LEDs for the plants, ceramic heat emitter for heat. No heat emitter at night they need the night time cool down. Cage is not is a heavy traffic area or near any drafts. Located in Alberta Canada.

issue: his aim has been off for some time, thought is was just a lack of practice but someone suggested vit A deficiency. He has eaten 4 pinkies in his lifetime. Kind of struggling here with his food. He started showing signs of edema even with the multivitamin two week interval so I cut down. The pinkies were given to keep him going until his cricket strike was over. His aim is still off a bit.
thank you

 

[Beman]

Supplements

Perfect and this is why I needed the picture lol different from the names you gave and the ones that I was relating to them.

So with these the repashy should be 2 times a month it has calcium with D3 and Vitamin A. You would want to use this one 2 times a month only and then the calcium without D3 at all other feedings. Drop the calcium with D3 you are duplicating it because it has it in the repashy.

 

[Kaizen]

Ok, so you have sort of a mishmash of supplements here. The “repashy calcium plus” is meant as an all-in-one supplement to be used at every feeding, and nothing else. There is strong following using this supplement, as it is the preferred supplement regime for Kammerflage Kreations, a reputable panther breeder. That being said, if you have a good uvb setup—ie a t5 ho bulb that is between 6-9” at the basking area—you could consider moving to “repashy calcium plus loD”. This too is an all in one, but it has lower levels of the fat soluble vitamins.

The other supplement regime that your supplements suggest is this:
1) calcium with no d3 at every feeding
2) calcium with d3 twice/month
3) a multivitamin with no d3 twice/month

I’d pick one supplement regime and stick with it until you are more comfortable with supplementation.

 

[Beman]

Ok, so you have sort of a mishmash of supplements here. The “repashy calcium plus” is meant as an all-in-one supplement to be used at every feeding, and nothing else. There is strong following using this supplement, as it is the preferred supplement regime for Kammerflage Kreations, a reputable panther breeder. That being said, if you have a good uvb setup—ie a t5 ho bulb that is between 6-9” at the basking area—you could consider moving to “repashy calcium plus loD”. This too is an all in one, but it has lower levels of the fat soluble vitamins.

The other supplement regime that your supplements suggest is this:
1) calcium with no d3 at every feeding
2) calcium with d3 twice/month
3) a multivitamin with no d3 twice/month

I’d pick one supplement regime and stick with it until you are more comfortable with supplementation.

Chris can you go over Canada friendly feeder options. I have no idea what yall can get your hands on up there.

 

[Aldebaran]

@Aldebaran Ok I am going to go through this with my feedback and questions in red bold.

1 1/2 year old panther male in my care for one year approx.
Fed every other day, previously with crickets as a staple but no longer, superworms once a week. Crickets fed mainly household veggies with some fruit. So at his age he should be eating 3 feeders every other day or 3 days a week say Monday, Thursday and Saturday. Superworms are high in fat they can be used as treats or maybe 1 each feeding but not the whole of the diet. There are other options for feeders in Canada and I am tagging in another Canadian that can assist with options for that. @Kaizen

He goes for a stroll once a week if he wants to come out on his own. I recently graduated and received my diploma in ‘walking Tree’ we’ve built that trust which took a good 8 months. He is on the timid side.
Reptive calcium every other feeding, reptivite calcium with D3 every other Friday, repashy multivite every other Friday-not the same day as the D3. Need pics to be sure before I give you info.

Cage is misted once a week for his ‘bath’ fogger runs at night only. With all the live plants the humidity is stable even without the fogger if misted once a week. I have seen him drink,
You really want to be misting each evening after the basking fixture kicks off so this gives him the opportunity to clean his eyes. fogger is great at night but temps should be below 67 when using this. HEat and moisture can lead to an RI.
poop is stills light orange, always has been. IF the whole urate is orange this can indicate dehydration adding misting sessions will help this.
A circuit watering system creates ‘rain fall’ bucket changed every other day Not sure what you mean by this... Be cautious with anything that you are recycling water through that they are drinking. This is a high risk for bacterial infections.

using a digital meter. Basking temp is 86.f, night is 70.f. Digitally measured. So daytime temp at basking is within limits. Typically no hotter then 80-85max. But night time temps are a bit warm. You really want to at least get it down to 65. Make sure your not running the ceramic heat emitter at night.
plants: hibiscus, Boston ferns, small croton, spider plant, queen pothos, snake plant, corn plant. great.
enclosure, screen, 6’x4’x2 1/2’.
light:? Reptisun T5HO tube light,What is your distance from the bottom of the T5 to the closest basking branch below it? Are you using a single bulb T5HO fixture? LEDs for the plants, ceramic heat emitter for heat. No heat emitter at night they need the night time cool down. Cage is not is a heavy traffic area or near any drafts. Located in Alberta Canada.

issue: his aim has been off for some time, thought is was just a lack of practice but someone suggested vit A deficiency. He has eaten 4 pinkies in his lifetime. Kind of struggling here with his food. He started showing signs of edema even with the multivitamin two week interval so I cut down. The pinkies were given to keep him going until his cricket strike was over. His aim is still off a bit.
thank you

for clarity, 3 crickets every other day?
The heat is NOT in at night. It’s not possible to get the night temp to less than 68.f.
he hates being misted, this is the reason for the ‘rain’ system, also, the humidity would be way too high, the plants do a great job at that

 

[Kaizen]

Thanks for tagging me @Beman! @Aldebaran, where are you in Canada?

 

[Kaizen]

for clarity, 3 crickets every other day?
The heat is NOT in at night. It’s not possible to get the night temp to less than 68.f.
he hates being misted, this is the reason for the ‘rain’ system, also, the humidity would be way too high, the plants do a great job at that

My panthers get 10c every night.

 

[Beman]

for clarity, 3 crickets every other day?
The heat is NOT in at night. It’s not possible to get the night temp to less than 68.f.
he hates being misted, this is the reason for the ‘rain’ system, also, the humidity would be way too high, the plants do a great job at that

Yes, 3 feeders every other day. So say 1 cricket and a silkworm and a bsfl.
just make sure your not running the heat emitter at night.
Most hate being misted... But they will still clean their eyes. We don't mist them directly we mist the enclosure. Then they can choose to hide or move into the mist. We mist in the evening when heat lamp has kicked off so that the higher humidity does not matter.

@Kaizen will be able to assist you further. I have to go make dinner for the family.

 

[Aldebaran]

Thanks for tagging me @Beman! @alderbaran, where are you in Canada?

Hello. I am in Edmonton

 

[Kaizen]

Hello. I am in Edmonton

I was born there! ?

 

[Aldebaran]

Yes, 3 feeders every other day. So say 1 cricket and a silkworm and a bsfl.
just make sure your not running the heat emitter at night.
Most hate being misted... But they will still clean their eyes. We don't mist them directly we mist the enclosure. Then they can choose to hide or move into the mist. We mist in the evening when heat lamp has kicked off so that the higher humidity does not matter.

@Kaizen will be able to assist you further. I have to go make dinner for the family.

Many thanks