Eye issues are difficult....there are just too many reasons for the eye issues to be able to find the answer easily. I hope more people will add there comments to this thread. I would really like to hear from people who have tried vitamin A and whether it solved the problems of not.
Eye health - The SOLUTION!!! - Experienced keepers please share your WISDOM!!!
- Thread starter Matt Vanilla Gorilla
- Start date
Matt Vanilla Gorilla
Chameleon Enthusiast
As a breeder I can not tolerate nor afford and therefore choose not to have to deal with eye problems! Immagine me trying to sell a sickly chameleon! Totaly not me, nor what I believe/stand for! Every chameleon leaving my care has to be in optimal health in order for them to have the best odds when they head off in to the adventure of their new life! I use vitamin A (Retinyl Palmitate) on all my chameleons! It is amazing! Ask any experienced keeper, they will agree!
I have rarely had an eye issue with any of my chameleons in all the years I've been keeping chameleons. One of the few that happened turned out to be cancer. Aside from the first couple of years I havent used a vitamin powder with prEformed vitamin A and I only feed/gutload the insects like crickets, superworms, roaches, etc with greens, veggies and a bit of fruit. However, the insects could have had some vitamin A in their feed before I got them. I don't know how to account for the results I've had.
Matt Vanilla Gorilla
Chameleon Enthusiast
It is commonly agreed that chameleons can not use anything but preformed vitamin A (such as what if found in animal sources). Provitamin A such as is found in fruits and vegitables is commonly believed to be mostly worthless to chameleons.
@Mj442k ...the issue is whether chameleons can convert prOformed sources (beta carotene sources from veggie, greens) OR not. If they can convert it then gutloading the insects with veggies and greens so the chameleon will be able to use those undigested veggies and greens to co nvert into prEformed will help. If the chameleons can't convert it then the insects will still have the normal amount of prEformed vitamin A they would have without gutloading which some people are saying isn't as much as a chameleon would get from its wild diet. So they're saying we need to provide the chameleon with some prEformed vitamin A to make up for what they will lackmin their captive diet.
There's one more hitch in all of this...vitamin A from prEformed sources has to balance with the D3 in the chameleon because it's antagonistic to the D3. If there's an imbalance then the chameleon can end up with MBD.
And also...if there is too much prEformed vitamin A and too much D3 from supplements that might cause organ damage.
Not sure all of that is directly involved in the eye issues.
There's one more hitch in all of this...vitamin A from prEformed sources has to balance with the D3 in the chameleon because it's antagonistic to the D3. If there's an imbalance then the chameleon can end up with MBD.
And also...if there is too much prEformed vitamin A and too much D3 from supplements that might cause organ damage.
Not sure all of that is directly involved in the eye issues.
Matt Vanilla Gorilla
Chameleon Enthusiast
Great info! As always, you rock!
Matt Vanilla Gorilla
Chameleon Enthusiast
Vitamin A dosing: Go to the drug store and buy a good quality (brand) of Retinyl Palmitate (this is one of the forms of Vitamin A that is ready to be absorbed and used by the chameleons body). 100 of the gel capsules of the 10 000 IU strength (this is the strength you need to buy) will cost you between $5 to $10. To medicate your Panther chameleon (vitamin A needs are different for different species of chameleons!) take a needle and poke a hole on one end of the capsule. Now squeeze the capsule a little and put a smudge of the oil from the capsule on the back of only one bug once a month. Be ware that overdosing is dangerous to your chameleons health! That is it! Most people are amazed at the obvious improvement of eye and skin health within a few months!
I'm bumping this thread again because I think people should read it. Thanks so much for starting it @Matt Vanilla Gorilla !
Eye issues are still in if the things I hate to see in the forum because there are just so many reasons they happen.
Anyone have any new information to add??
Eye issues are still in if the things I hate to see in the forum because there are just so many reasons they happen.
Anyone have any new information to add??
Matt Vanilla Gorilla
Chameleon Enthusiast
@Matt Vanilla Gorilla said..."Thanks @kinyonga it is so sad for everyone when their chameleons get sick and it is most often totally preventable!" ...you're welcome! Most of the issues are preventable.
Remkon
Chameleon Enthusiast
I may have found Retinyl Palitate so I may go with that for my cham's
What about beta carotene?
I've read that it's good to use for cham's and their vit A deficiency and it can't be overdosed. --> http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Reptile-Health/Swollen-Chameleon-Eye/
However, I read also that it's unsure if chameleons can convert it to usable vit A themselves so is it possible to feed it to feeders instead?
Yea, my Wurma got his eye swollen...
Tho it looks like he has bumped it on something, it does make me want to review my supplementation.
What about beta carotene?
I've read that it's good to use for cham's and their vit A deficiency and it can't be overdosed. --> http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Reptile-Health/Swollen-Chameleon-Eye/
However, I read also that it's unsure if chameleons can convert it to usable vit A themselves so is it possible to feed it to feeders instead?
Yea, my Wurma got his eye swollen...
Tho it looks like he has bumped it on something, it does make me want to review my supplementation.
Remkon
Chameleon Enthusiast
And what about cod liver oil...? @Matt Vanilla Gorilla (sorry to summon you)
Like:
It seems to be hard to find Retinyl Palmitate around here...
Like:
It seems to be hard to find Retinyl Palmitate around here...
Matt Vanilla Gorilla
Chameleon Enthusiast
Cod Liver oil has all of the fat soluble vitamins in it. You will have to look at how much of each vitamin is in each tablet and adjust your other supplements you usually give to prevent overdosing (overdosing happens easily with the fat soluble vitamins) The nice thing about Cod Liver oil is that it has both vitamin A and D in it at a healthy balance for the fish it came from (these two vitamins needs to be given in balance for optimal health since they affect each others usage in the body) so it should not be too far off for chameleon needs depending on the kind of chameleon!
I also strongly recommend the use of bee pollen! It seems to have near magical healing powers for chameleon health!
Best of luck with you sick reptile child! I am sending good vibes!
I also strongly recommend the use of bee pollen! It seems to have near magical healing powers for chameleon health!
Best of luck with you sick reptile child! I am sending good vibes!
Remkon
Chameleon Enthusiast
Thanks for your reply... I went to the pharmacy and best they had was cod liveroil so I'm going with that.
My plan is basically to put 1 drop of it on a plate and then rub some waxworms in it before feeding them off. I will do that once a month as there's also vit a in the multi vit supplement i use.
I'm trying not to worry about the eye for now, it looks clean except for the swelling and he also uses it. There's a small dark brown spot on the swelling so I think he may have bumped into a branch or got bitten by a cricket and it's gotten irritated.
He still has an appetite and behaves as normal so that's reassuring.
This week is to cold to take him to the vet so I plan to increase humidity and mistingduration and just keep a close eye. If it goes worse I will take the risk of the vet trip, if it stays the same I will wait until its a bit warmer out.
My plan is basically to put 1 drop of it on a plate and then rub some waxworms in it before feeding them off. I will do that once a month as there's also vit a in the multi vit supplement i use.
I'm trying not to worry about the eye for now, it looks clean except for the swelling and he also uses it. There's a small dark brown spot on the swelling so I think he may have bumped into a branch or got bitten by a cricket and it's gotten irritated.
He still has an appetite and behaves as normal so that's reassuring.
This week is to cold to take him to the vet so I plan to increase humidity and mistingduration and just keep a close eye. If it goes worse I will take the risk of the vet trip, if it stays the same I will wait until its a bit warmer out.
Just remember that because there is both vitamin A and D in the cod liver oil you need to make sure they are both in balance and I would think it's not good/useful to correct a case of low vitamin A.
If chameleons cannot convert beta carotene into vitamin a then having it in the gut/intestines if the insect when it's eaten won't do the chameleon any good...but the part that has been digested will still help the insect's level of vitamin A and thus the chameleons..
If chameleons cannot convert beta carotene into vitamin a then having it in the gut/intestines if the insect when it's eaten won't do the chameleon any good...but the part that has been digested will still help the insect's level of vitamin A and thus the chameleons..
GPLVPC
New Member
What ever happened to @Pitcard ? He hasn't logged in to update anyone in over 44 weeks. I hope he is okay. I'm experiencing an eye issue with my Ambilobe Panther Chameleon. I took him to the vet and the first one gave me nothing more than lubrication drops. I have sterile saline at home and told him that. Eye didn't get any better after a week so, I took him to another vet who embraced my requests. The eye was sealed shut. Vet would have bet me $1M it was gone and instead, followed my advice. I requested that he be sedated then, flood and flush the eye and massage the lid until it opens. If an eye ball exists, clean it out. Inject an antibiotic and send me home with eye drops of the same. I asked if they could order a vitamin A test and the answer was yes, but with what baseline do we compare? Apparently, they don't exist so, we scrapped that idea. As of today (4 days post-vet visit), his eye is open. That's right! His eye is open. I am sure the vet is going to be excited. Her inclination was to leave the eye alone and let nature take it's course. I disagreed and she respected my wishes. All of that was right about $295. I believe 100% the issue is with vitamin A or a lack of. I'm following the advice from all the great posts and I'll provide an update soon including photos, and more details. I know it's very important to have facts. Glad I found you guys and this thread.
makkatfloof
Member
Just gonna jump in super quick and throw in something.
So my boy got sent to me with a major eye infection.
Many issues that I have even heard other complaints about are just poor breeders/previous owners.
Not at all trying to bash these people, but I will call out CB Reptile. That’s where I got my boy. They claim they have a biologist onsite that clears each chameleon, yet offer no links to this “biologist” or even leave a name. And when they send you the chameleon, they give you no info it. After my boy started his treatment, i obviously sent in a complaint. They still offered no verification to their “biologist” but claimed their “biologist” said there’s no way the chameleon got an infection from any others there (he was a baby and still housed with his hatch mates).
He had a bacterial infection that my vet said he could have only got passed to him somehow.
This place also offers no pictures of their actual breeding facility, covers up all negative reviews, and has horrible communication methods.
I do own up to the fact that I probably should have went to a specialized breeder and spent more time looking into this breeder. But, my point is, ive heard WAY too many questionable things about captive breeders recently. As more and more captive breeders come up, the more sketch they get.
So, I will say that maybe checking out where you’re gettin your chams from a lot more clearer (since I keep hearing about many of the eye problems being with chams that people JUST got) would be a huge help. Making sure you’re getting a healthy chameleon from an experienced and knowledgeable breeder is becoming more and more of a necessity.
So my boy got sent to me with a major eye infection.
Many issues that I have even heard other complaints about are just poor breeders/previous owners.
Not at all trying to bash these people, but I will call out CB Reptile. That’s where I got my boy. They claim they have a biologist onsite that clears each chameleon, yet offer no links to this “biologist” or even leave a name. And when they send you the chameleon, they give you no info it. After my boy started his treatment, i obviously sent in a complaint. They still offered no verification to their “biologist” but claimed their “biologist” said there’s no way the chameleon got an infection from any others there (he was a baby and still housed with his hatch mates).
He had a bacterial infection that my vet said he could have only got passed to him somehow.
This place also offers no pictures of their actual breeding facility, covers up all negative reviews, and has horrible communication methods.
I do own up to the fact that I probably should have went to a specialized breeder and spent more time looking into this breeder. But, my point is, ive heard WAY too many questionable things about captive breeders recently. As more and more captive breeders come up, the more sketch they get.
So, I will say that maybe checking out where you’re gettin your chams from a lot more clearer (since I keep hearing about many of the eye problems being with chams that people JUST got) would be a huge help. Making sure you’re getting a healthy chameleon from an experienced and knowledgeable breeder is becoming more and more of a necessity.
GPLVPC
New Member
I purchased a 15 month old Ambilobe Panther Chameleon from CB Reptile and received it on Tuesday April 3, 2018 . Zero issues with it until May 30. It was the eye issue described in my earlier post, but again, I can't point fingers and honestly don't know why he has the issue. Throwing money at the problem is resolving it in addition to my extensive research. I firmly believe people are utilizing the wrong type of vitamin A for these panther chameleons. Time will tell. I plan to purchase another one, continue healing this one, but in the end, trial and error is the path to success. Here's some photos before the eye issue.
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