Extremely dehyrdated panther, nothing is working - help!!

[slinkypie]

Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
- ambilobe panther, 8 months

* Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
-almost never

* Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule?
How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Crickets - he has never been interested in any worms. I keep his cage with 5-10. He usually eats 2 a day.

* Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
-rep cal with d3 twice a month, rep cal w/o d3 weekly

* Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
He used to be extremely thirsty, all the time. I had to mist him almost every hour.

* Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
I took him to the vet yesterday and he did not suspect parasites. His poop is watery. Brown, a little white and watery.

* History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
I got him in december and he was always extremely thirsty from the get go. I put an auto mister and also water bowl because I couldn’t keep up with misting 1/hour a day with work. It just seemed he could never get enough. I noticed one day his poop was red so I read and knew that was a sign of dehydration. So I started to shower him, give him water directly and now his poop is watery. His eyes are sunken in and no matter how much water nothing seems to change. I feel it might be something else.


Cage Info:

* Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
-screen , previous cage was 36x24x48 but since he has been sick I have moved him to a smaller cage 30x18x30

* Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Zoo Med UVB -18" 5.0 uvb + day light

* Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
-84-86 basking spot, 73 bottom, 69 at night, temp gauge.

* Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
-70ish, misting live plants, showers 2x /day, humidity gauge.

* Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
-umbrella schefflera plant + vines

* Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
-bedroom on top of a tall dresser, about 40" off the ground. Nobody is in there except and night when we go to sleep. He is right near the window but that overlooks our pool with no activity in the backyard.

* Location - Where are you geographically located?
-el paso, texas


Current Problem - He is so dehydrated and nothing I do seems to help. He does sleep during the day now and sometimes has one eye closed. He is still eating and drinking just fine however. He has been like this for many weeks. I thought I saw improvement and I’ve been doing many remedies that I have read online but to no avail. I finally took him to the vet yesterday and he gave him a dose of Baytril. I read that it is extremely hard on a chameleon's kidneys and could potentially kill him. I told the vet I wasn’t sure if it was a good idea and he admitted he had no idea it was bad for chameleons.. so he told me not to continue the rest of the dosage. The only 2 other vets that can work on chameleons are out of town. Please help!

 

[kinyonga]

Is he always that pale?
What are you feeding/gutloading the insects?
Why do you think he's dehydrated?

 

[Alexander1]

Of you have to tell your vet the side effects of using certain medicines and he then follows your advise, its time to find another vet.
He should of course have a fecal sample tested.. His eyes may be sunken in for other reasons not just dehydration, especially if his poop is watery and white. If he's sleeping during the day that's a classic sign of illness, my advice to you is to get him to a better vet, no one else will be able to offer anything other than an educated guess.

 

[slinkypie]

Of you have to tell your vet the side effects of using certain medicines and he then follows your advise, its time to find another vet.
He should of course have a fecal sample tested.. His eyes may be sunken in for other reasons not just dehydration, especially if his poop is watery and white. If he's sleeping during the day that's a classic sign of illness, my advice to you is to get him to a better vet, no one else will be able to offer anything other than an educated guess.

I have an appointment Monday (soonest he will be in town) - thank you!

 

[slinkypie]

Is he always that pale?
What are you feeding/gutloading the insects?
Why do you think he's dehydrated?

He's my first chameleon and I thought he might be dehyrdated from what i have read online about the sunken eyes. The vet was unsure but I do have an appointment Monday with a specialty vet. It was the soonest he'd be in town.

He is not normally this pale. He's very vibrant yellow and green. We feed crickets and superworms.

 

[kinyonga]

What do you feed to the insects and what do you gutload them with?

 

[slinkypie]

What do you feed to the insects and what do you gutload them with?

I purchase the crickets and meal worms from a local pet store. I just called and asked and they said they aren't gut loaded. Could this be the issue?

 

[kinyonga]

His colors being pale might be an indication that he is sick and so is the sunken eye. People often think that it's just dehydration when the eye is sunken in but it's more often that there is something wrong that is making it not drink enough or make it feel unwell and the eye then becomes sunken.

 

[kinyonga]

To me watery poop says parasites. Does the poop smell more than normal?

Not feeding them insects and gutloading them well means your chameleon is getting a diet with little nutrition.

 

[slinkypie]

His colors being pale might be an indication that he is sick and so is the sunken eye. People often think that it's just dehydration when the eye is sunken in but it's more often that there is something wrong that is making it not drink enough or make it feel unwell and the eye then becomes sunken.

To me watery poop says parasites. Does the poop smell more than normal?

Not feeding them insects and gutloading them well means your chameleon is getting a diet with little nutrition.

His poop doesn't smell any worse but he actually smelled pretty foul - almost like a dirty cricket smell to him when I was at the vet. Would the Baytril kill the parasites?

 

[kinyonga]

No...baytril kills bacteria.

 

[slinkypie]

No...baytril kills bacteria.

Thanks for the help and advice! I'll just keep him hydrated and comfortable until Monday. Thanks again!

 

[Graves923]

In the mean time, start gutloading your feeders. That way, when he eats he is atleast starting to get some good nutrition.

Good things to gutload your crickets with are dandelion greens, kale, carrots, escarole, and the occasional apple or orange slice. All are relatively cheap and easily found in your local grocery store.

 

[slinkypie]

In the mean time, start gutloading your feeders. That way, when he eats he is atleast starting to get some good nutrition.

Good things to gutload your crickets with are dandelion greens, kale, carrots, escarole, and the occasional apple or orange slice. All are relatively cheap and easily found in your local grocery store.

Thank you for this advice! So, when I buy crickets, I should put them in a bucket and place these types of food and let the crickets eat them first before feeding them to my Cham, correct? Should I wait like a day or so to ensure the crickets ate enough? Totally newby here - sorry!

 

[el chamino]

I'm new to this also, but I like to go 48hrs, just to make sure. Don't know if it's necessary tho.

 

[jajeanpierre]

@slinkypie I'm very sorry your chameleon is doing so poorly. Dehydration might not be the root cause of his problems.

When you say his stool was watery, what did you mean? Is the brown part fully formed into an egg-shaped stool t hat is covered with clear liquid/mucus? Is the urate--the white part--white or dark colored? Can you send a picture.

I'm concerned that you say he was always thirsty. That suggests to me that he has always been dehydrated or perhaps has kidney failure. If he isn't in a humid enough environment, he might not be able to drink enough to keep himself hydrated. Chronically dehydrated chameleons, even low levels of chronic dehydration, causes kidney failure.

Baytril is a very good antibiotic. Medications on any dehydrated or sick chameleon are problematic. Did the vet not give him fluids under the skin?

I hope you can resolve this with him. Ask the new vet if he thinks the problem is kidney failure.

 

[Graves923]

Thank you for this advice! So, when I buy crickets, I should put them in a bucket and place these types of food and let the crickets eat them first before feeding them to my Cham, correct? Should I wait like a day or so to ensure the crickets ate enough? Totally newby here - sorry!

Make sure the feeders have access to the gutload food at all time. When you get a new batch of feeders, it is best to put the food in atleast 24 hours before the next chameleon feeding. This is what I've been doing and its been working great along with the proper supplementation thats recommended.

Good luck and keep us posted with the vet visit.

 

[slinkypie]

Hi everyone again! So as of today the Chameleon is looking better in color. However, he seems to not want to use his tongue and goes up to the crickets and eats them just by biting onto them, rather then striking them with his tongue. I have noticed also when he does strike, he often misses and he wont strike until he is literally maybe 4" from there. I am starting to wonder if perhaps we have an eye problem? Anyone's thoughts?

 

[Zephalia]

Hi everyone again! So as of today the Chameleon is looking better in color. However, he seems to not want to use his tongue and goes up to the crickets and eats them just by biting onto them, rather then striking them with his tongue. I have noticed also when he does strike, he often misses and he wont strike until he is literally maybe 4" from there. I am starting to wonder if perhaps we have an eye problem? Anyone's thoughts?

He is weak and trouble feeding normally is another side effect of an underlying problem.

From your statements of runny/watery stool and blood in the stool, it sounds to me like it could be parasites. You will need to bring a stool sample to the vet for testing to confirm it. If you find a sample over the weekend, pick it up on a wet paper towel and store it in a Ziploc bag in the fridge until his appointment Monday. They should prescribe you a dewormer such as Panacur in the meantime to begin treatment. Prolonged parasite infection can cause all of the issues you have described so that's a great place to start. I would not delay as he looks to be in very poor shape and may not have much time left.

In regards to the crickets and gutloading: I place my crickets into a large Rubbermaid bin, placing upward stacked egg crates for them to crawl on. I then give them a variety of fresh fruits and veggies to eat (great examples above). It only takes a few hours after they have been chowing down on the good food, that they are ready to be fed to your chameleon.

I wish you the best of luck in his care. I hope he pulls through the weekend for you.

 

[slinkypie]

Thank you SO much for the help and advice and taking the time to read this! I will follow your advice. I am getting crickets today and will gut load. I have an appointment with the specialist Monday and will take a fecal sample. Thank you once again!!