Even Dr. Mader Knows Reptiles Show Affection to Their Owners

Discussion in 'General Photography' started by jannb, Oct 8, 2017.

  1. jannb

    jannb Chameleon Enthusiast

    Even Dr. Mader knows that reptiles can show signs of attachment for their keepers. Why do I have such a hard time getting chameleon keeper to believe this?

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    #1 jannb, Oct 8, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
  2. Chameleomom

    Chameleomom Avid Member

    Interesting. Thanks for the article
     
  3. jamest0o0

    jamest0o0 Chameleon Enthusiast

    There could be so many variables to it. I'll never see it that way :):)
     
  4. jamest0o0

    jamest0o0 Chameleon Enthusiast

    Also crocodilians, monitors, tegus have a much superior level of intelligence.
     
  5. jannb

    jannb Chameleon Enthusiast

    He sees my chameleons and others on a regular basis and sees the affection and the bonding. He even bonds with them himself. My guys are very fond of him and his wife. He has promised me a new article basis on chameleons but it might be awhile because he had MAJOR damage to his home from hurricane Irma.
     
  6. jannb

    jannb Chameleon Enthusiast

    Maybe only the scientist, educators and keepers like myself that truly love them and spend an enormous amount of time interacting with them for many years can see it.

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  7. jamest0o0

    jamest0o0 Chameleon Enthusiast

    I've kept reptiles for the better part of my 26 years, for every 1 scientist that thinks there's a special bond, I'm sure there's 100 that see them as animals driven off instinct. I'm not saying all of them are like that(tegus/monitors among others show exceptional intelligence) but really it does more harm than good telling people their reptiles are little buddies. How many people go into petco buy a veiled and just carry it around all day until it dies of stress? Plus I'm sure there's tons of very experienced keepers here that'd agree with this.

    I'm not saying you do anything wrong, you know a ton more about chams than me. No offense intended, I just see so many inexperienced people treating animals like toys. It can be hard to convey the message that they can bond without having newbies stressing their animals out all day.
     
    #7 jamest0o0, Oct 8, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
  8. Andee

    Andee Chameleon Enthusiast

    I don't think tegu and monitors show any more intelligence than any other reptile. The thing is when you treat a reptile a certain way it's going to act that way.
     
    jannb likes this.
  9. jannb

    jannb Chameleon Enthusiast

    I didn’t say all or even many scientist only the ones that truly love them and spend a tremendous about of time studying and interacting with them. National Geographic put out a very interesting special addition about some of the finding of scientist and what has been kept hidden for so long. I highly recommend it.


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    Nibbz, Sloppysponge, lisagr07 and 3 others like this.
  10. jannb

    jannb Chameleon Enthusiast

    Exactly! A chameleon that’s kept in a cage in a room all to it’s self will or course just sit there like a knot on a log. You the keeper will have no earthy idea what a chameleon is capable of doing. A chameleon that spends time with their keeper will learn more and be able to show his/her intelligence.
     
    lisagr07 likes this.
  11. jamest0o0

    jamest0o0 Chameleon Enthusiast

    @Andee They are an omnivorous species which inhabits the tropical rain forests, savannas, and semi-deserts of east and central South America. Argentine tegus have unusually highintelligence. It has been observed and recorded that some will regularly and clearly seek out human affection, just as a dog or cat might.

    Found this on Wikipedia, but I'm sure there's more solid references out there. They are most definitely more intelligent(relative to human intelligence) than the average reptile.
     
  12. jamest0o0

    jamest0o0 Chameleon Enthusiast

    @jannb I guess I shouldn't say intelligence, it's all relative. We have intellectual social structures because it helps us survive, most reptiles don't need that so we may look at them as dumb. But they are most definitely good at surviving and adapting.
     
    TCMontium and Scottsquatch like this.
  13. jamest0o0

    jamest0o0 Chameleon Enthusiast

    Im sorry, but no way a chameleon(maybe a mellers, but I've never been around them) can compare to monitor species
     
    jajeanpierre likes this.
  14. Andee

    Andee Chameleon Enthusiast

    I have had chameleons seek out social interaction with me. But the thing is it's harder to train a chameleon because of some the things they've evolved to do physically. Likely a laser pointer would work just as well as target words with a tegu or monitor. I use a target word with my blue tongue. I have also done minor name training with some of my more intelligent geckos. Thing is they have a reason to be able to figure out and hunt when things get tough. In captivity they have no need to do this, so they literally just exist and eat, so pushing their intelligence to see what they can learn is good.
     
  15. jamest0o0

    jamest0o0 Chameleon Enthusiast

    I agree chams are pretty smart, I've witnessed some amazing moments of them trying to get something they want. I just don't think they bond. or are up there with tegu/monitors(though, not much is, their social intelligence rivals that of dogs/cats). I know you and Jan are among the most knowledgeable and I love having you guys on these forums. Nothing either of you choose to do would worry me, but I just feel that new keepers might interpret things the wrong way. We already see so much ridiculously stupid things on these forums lol. Next we'll see chams on leashes.
     
    Sloppysponge and TCMontium like this.
  16. Andee

    Andee Chameleon Enthusiast

    I think with chams the issue is it takes long to gain their trust and therefore people don't do it correctly and push to hard. With tegus and monitors you have to have them handlable or at least trained in some aspect so you can get in and out and feed them because they are actually a dangerous predator. Chams will hide more than fight, other than the bluffs. I would never want a black throat to decide his territory was his when I needed to clean it. But then again a lot of people are also stupid with tegus and monitors. Just like cats and dogs they treat them like something that is completely controlled. Not even dogs or cats are like that.
     
    Nibbz, TCMontium and Scottsquatch like this.
  17. funnyCAT140

    funnyCAT140 Member

    I truly believe reptiles bond with they're owners. I don't know about chams, but especially my ball python will crawl up on my arm and not want to go up for hours. He bites everyone else that holds him, but will lay beside me on my bed and just chill. I think my reptiles like me more than my cats ever will. I don't know if you guys have ever watched Mike Tytula on YouTube, but if you haven't he has veileds and they are super tame.
     
  18. jamest0o0

    jamest0o0 Chameleon Enthusiast

    Would like to see some of the non-fairytale land people chime in here, I'm being outnumbered.
     
    Goose502 likes this.
  19. jamest0o0

    jamest0o0 Chameleon Enthusiast

    Just because an animal goes on you doesn't mean it has bonded, it just means it knows you as a safe retreat. I do not have a bond with my house, but I go there everyday to sleep. I am not emotionally attached to it(I guess some could be though idk lol)
     
  20. jannb

    jannb Chameleon Enthusiast

    The definition of bonding.
    Full Definition of bonding. 1 : the formation of a close relationship (as between a mother and child or between a person and an animal) especially through frequent or constant association.

    My chameleons and I spend time together everyday. They go on walks with me and my husband, they celebrate holidays with us, they run errands with us, they hang out in the kitchen with me while I cook and clean, they go for rides, before we moved closer to their vet we went on many long trips, stayed in hotels and ate out at restaurants. That's bonding. They are a big part of our family.[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
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