Enlarged Kidneys

AnamCara

AnamCara

Chameleon Enthusiast
Hey all,

What causes kidney enlargement in chams? Mona just got back to the vet and her kidneys are so enlarged that are pushing her other organs to the back. In humans I know it can be from a blockage of urine. I've searched the other kidney threads and I know where this is headed for her, but id like to know why. The vet said they aren't sure. I'll copy and paste her husbandry info in a second.
 
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? Female Panther, 4 years old, been with me 3 1/2


Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? Rarely. Maybe once a month.


Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? Food every 3-4 days. Crickets, silk works and dubias. Goat loaded with silk food and veg and some other gutloads from repashy. No spinach. Bee pollen.



Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? Repashy calcium plus lo d. She's had this her whole time with me.


Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Misting 2 times during the day for about 2 min. Heavier mist at night after the lights are off and before lights turn on. Fogging at night.


Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? Normal poops. Brown with white urates tiny bit of orange if she goes longer without pooping. Recent poop was normal. Yes she has been tested for parasites.







History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. I have another Cham and they have the same husbandry and she is chilling.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? T5 with an arcadia 6% screen cage 2x2x4


Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? 79- 80 basking. Graduates down to about 74-76 at the bottom. Basking has a temperature control and reader and other temp gages throughout her encloser. I also have a temp gun but since she's had the same husbandry for ao long I don't check it that often.





Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? Gets up to 80 at night. 65 ish throughout the day (hence the twice daily misting) I'm in Colorado and it dries out completely in between mistings.

Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? yup. Pothos bc they're easy and broad lwafws.


Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? Not by windows, fans or Vents. Top of the cage is about 6 ft off the ground.


Location - Where are you geographically located? Colorado.
 
They tried to get blood from her but couldn't. He didn't want to sedate her. The vet does have Cham experience he's the only vet around that does. He took am x ray and her kidneys were enlarged. Let me see how far away I am from the vet Jan recommend
 
I believe the kidneys are part of the renal system. Renal failure in chams is often too much supplement. The renal system is what clears out the extra. If it is too much the system can't keep up and we have a failure. It can also go the other way with lack of supplement but usually other problems occur first in those cases. There are plenty of other causes as well but this seems to be a common one. What is your supplement routine. How many feeders are dusted with what and how often.
 
CasqueAbove said:
I believe the kidneys are part of the renal system. Renal failure in chams is often too much supplement. The renal system is what clears out the extra. If it is too much the system can't keep up and we have a failure. It can also go the other way with lack of supplement but usually other problems occur first in those cases. There are plenty of other causes as well but this seems to be a common one. What is your supplement routine. How many feeders are dusted with what and how often.
Click to expand...
5-7 feeders of medium size lightly dusted with LoD. No other supplements. This has been her schedule her whole life.
 
AnamCara said:
5-7 feeders of medium size lightly dusted with LoD. No other supplements. This has been her schedule her whole life.
Click to expand...
Interesting, have you always used the same supplement? Is that every day or 3 times a week ?
I have a theory that over time their needs change. I have seen a few cases like your where every thing is good for a long time then all of a sudden symptoms appear. No science here Just a thought I have had.
But D3 I think particular has room for error because how much they produce naturally I would imagine can vary as lights fade and depending on a chams favorite spot.
Did the vet have any thing to say ? I mean there are plenty of reasons other than a supplement imbalance. It is tricky because you can't easily monitor it. Normally we cut back on Supplements and keep an eye on the edema to see if it goes down. You could try this but I would coordinate with the vet so other x-rays can be done to see if it is having an effect.
I hope it is this honestly because the other reasons can be worse.
 
What caused you to take Mona in? Heaven forbid it is renal failure this can link directly to proper hydration and if they are actually drinking enough as well. Has she ever shown signs of edema?
 
Beman said:
What caused you to take Mona in? Heaven forbid it is renal failure this can link directly to proper hydration and if they are actually drinking enough as well. Has she ever shown signs of edema?
Click to expand...
Over the last week and seemed to slow down a bit but was looking fine. Yesterday she was looking skinny so I called the vet and made an appointment, the earliest they could get her in was Monday. Today, I noticed she was hanging by her tail so I immediately put her back on a branch and went to get a hospital bin setup for her and call the vet. When I came back into the room she was on the floor of her cage and I knew she fell. I put her in the bin and pretty much forced them to see her today. She didn't break anything and isn't bruised except for where they gave her subcutaneous fluids. She ate and drank just this morning. Her decline from yesterday to today was so so fast
 
CasqueAbove said:
Interesting, have you always used the same supplement? Is that every day or 3 times a week ?
I have a theory that over time their needs change. I have seen a few cases like your where every thing is good for a long time then all of a sudden symptoms appear. No science here Just a thought I have had.
But D3 I think particular has room for error because how much they produce naturally I would imagine can vary as lights fade and depending on a chams favorite spot.
Did the vet have any thing to say ? I mean there are plenty of reasons other than a supplement imbalance. It is tricky because you can't easily monitor it. Normally we cut back on Supplements and keep an eye on the edema to see if it goes down. You could try this but I would coordinate with the vet so other x-rays can be done to see if it is having an effect.
I hope it is this honestly because the other reasons can be worse.
Click to expand...
The vet only said that her kidneys were enlarged. He couldn't tell me why and said the husbandry seemed on point. He tried to draw blood but tried once and couldn't get it and bc of her state didn't want to try again. She doesnt have an edema.
 
AnamCara said:
The vet only said that her kidneys were enlarged. He couldn't tell me why and said the husbandry seemed on point. He tried to draw blood but tried once and couldn't get it and bc of her state didn't want to try again. She doesnt have an edema.
Click to expand...
So the blood would likely give the answer , I see his point though, in not wanting to do more harm.. A vet is not going to guess. Given all factors I would say this seems more unlikely to be supplements. I hope they can figure it out. Even in people this is a tricky area.
 
CasqueAbove said:
So the blood would likely give the answer , I see his point though, in not wanting to do more harm.. A vet is not going to guess. Given all factors I would say this seems more unlikely to be supplements. I hope they can figure it out. Even in people this is a tricky area.
Click to expand...
Thanks friend. I called the vet Jan recommended. They're having me call Saturday morning to see if she has any cancellations. The vets website pic was just her holding chameleons so id love to get her as a second opinion.
 
Well she is still here! She spent the night in her hospital bin. Her back leg grip seems better but her front grip is still week. I got her to eat a cricket but her tongue is real slow. We're just gonna take this hour by hour I guess
 
jannb said:
Do you have a picture of Mona? How experienced is your vet with chameleons? I see you live in CO, how far are you from Dr. Dayna? I’ll link her below. I’d get a second opinion.
https://www.auroraanimalhospital.com/our-team/dayna-willems
Click to expand...
Welp after two and a half days of bothering the Dr. Dayna they are squeezing her in today at 11am. Even the receptionist said "if anyone can figure out what's wrong with her Dr. Dayna can. Mona is holding out and actually puffed up a little bit today so I'm feeling hopeful how.
 
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