EMERGENCY! I fear my Cham is failing...

[bugman]

hameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Red bar Amibilobe Panther Chameleon.
Handling - Every other day.
Feeding - Has not eaten for two weeks at least from what I can tell
Supplements - Nothing at the moment
Watering - MistKing System three times a day three nozzles force pedi by Syringe
Fecal Description - Brown gray and the white is cream colored no blood
History - been very healthy but lately falling off the cliff

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Screen Cage 24x24x48
Lighting - 2 - 18" 5. UVB it is 10 months old have ReptiSun on order but taking them forever to get it to me, 1 - basking spot
Temperature - 60-90 depending on where you measure in the cage
Humidity - around 30-60%.
Plants - Live certified plants.
Placement - in my bedroom on a table.
Location - Chicago, IL

Current Problem - He has been getting progressively worse I have tried everything the vet told me to use GenTeal Nightime Ointment to aid in his eye problem along with Gentamicin Sulfate 0.3% Sterile drops in his eyes and to coat his food which is SuperWorms only that is all he will eat with Reptivite but it does not matter since he does not open his eyes and when I get him to do so I don't think he can see so for the last week I stopped using the Genteal which is like a petroleum product and only use the drops he has not eaten for a good 10 days unless he has been eating without my knowledge I keep supers in two dishes in the cage and they disappear but I think that they are just getting out of the dishes. His head is sinking in that is the back where the two bumps used to be his upper lips are further in than his lower and his eyes stay shut and when I rub them he likes it so they are irritating him along with his nasal passage he likes to have itched on top and side of his nose. It seems every time I take my reptiles to the vet it goes nowhere so I am hoping someone in the forum may of had a similar issue with there cham and can help in diagnosing this very unusual problem.

 

[seanUTD]

He is a sight predator so honestly I would try force feeding... Medium size crickets.... Something... That AND you need to take him back to the vet and have a fecal done... Not all parasites will cause obvious results like blood in the stool...

EDIT: He doesn't by my eyes look thin and his colors are still bright so I think FOOD WISE he is getting nutrition somehow but 1)His eyes are sunken which may be the result of the drops but could also be dehydration... Try a warm shower to see if that will perk him up...
2)I just realized you aren't giving him supplements???

They need Calcium everyday to be able to keep their health in good order and a schedule like this to keep them healthy..
RepCal without D3 every day, MultiVitamin twice a month, Calcium with D3 twice a month... I also think that with the bulbs having been 10 months old, the lifespan of those is 4-6 months conservatively so I feel fear that your cham has not received proper D3 in the last 4 months so get some cal with D3 and dust every day until that bulb gets there to offset the lack of a UVB bulb

 

[camimom]

hameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Red bar Amibilobe Panther Chameleon.
Handling - Every other day.
Feeding - Has not eaten for two weeks at least from what I can tell What are you offering him to feed? Are you gutloading?
Supplements - Nothing at the moment Why are you not supplementing? This can cause problems, and can possibly influence the current problem. You should be supplementing with plain calcium without d3 and phosphorus every feeding, calcium with d3 roughly 2x a month, and a multivitamin 2x a month (Depending the brands you would be using)
Watering - MistKing System three times a day three nozzles force pedi by Syringe SInce he looks deyhdrated, this misting scheduloe may not be enough
Fecal Description - Brown gray and the white is cream colored no blood If by cream colored you mean yellowish, then your cham is deyhdrated, and by the looks of his eyes, he is
History - been very healthy but lately falling off the cliff

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Screen Cage 24x24x48
Lighting - 2 - 18" 5. UVB it is 10 months old have ReptiSun on order but taking them forever to get it to me, 1 - basking spot WHy do you have two uvb bulbs? Or were you saying you have two lights one uvb one basking? If you DO have 2 uvb bulbs, this can also cause your cham to close his eyes, simply bc it hurts, try to get the new bulb asap, they need to be replaced roughly every 6 months, (even though they say a year)
Temperature - 60-90 depending on where you measure in the cage
Humidity - around 30-60%.
Plants - Live certified plants. What do you mean certified? plants from the ok cham list on this site?
Placement - in my bedroom on a table.
Location - Chicago, IL

Current Problem - He has been getting progressively worse I have tried everything the vet told me to use GenTeal Nightime Ointment to aid in his eye problem along with Gentamicin Sulfate 0.3% Sterile drops in his eyes and to coat his food which is SuperWorms only that is all he will eat with Reptivite but it does not matter since he does not open his eyes and when I get him to do so I don't think he can see so for the last week I stopped using the Genteal which is like a petroleum product and only use the drops he has not eaten for a good 10 days unless he has been eating without my knowledge I keep supers in two dishes in the cage and they disappear but I think that they are just getting out of the dishes. His head is sinking in that is the back where the two bumps used to be his upper lips are further in than his lower and his eyes stay shut and when I rub them he likes it so they are irritating him along with his nasal passage he likes to have itched on top and side of his nose. It seems every time I take my reptiles to the vet it goes nowhere so I am hoping someone in the forum may of had a similar issue with there cham and can help in diagnosing this very unusual problem.

Your husbandry has a few issues, but what I would suggestis finding another cham vet, since it doesnt seem like you are getting what you need from your curent one. BTW, try finding a thread somewhere on here about bug juice. I know it involves blending bugs, and some other stuff, which you can then force feed to your cham to try to get him back on track, also get some pedialyte, ive read on here that that can help as well.

 

[davthevieled]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say the reason you aren't supplementing isn't because you aren't offering the supplements, but because he isn't eating. I'm curious though, how are the superworms "escaping"? Is there supstrate at the bottom of the cage? Another thing, have you tried to at least coax him towards something healthier than supers? They are high in fat and could cause problems...

Anyways, if you don't have supstrate and you are in fact supplementing (again, giving you the benefit of "he just isn't eating") I would agree with what is posted above, his eyes do look a bit sunken in and if you do have two uvbs in, it pretty much is going and doing some extreme tanning, it might be contributing to him closing his eyes due to iritation and might be causing him to be slightly dehydrated.

Actually, I just noticed his mouth is a bit gaped open towards the back... could be caused if you are giving too much d3 or caused due to a lack of supplements (you know, mbd).
Or it could be caused by a few other things... find a new vet, tell them everything that is going on. Show them the gape in his mouth. That really is the best advice. Could we get pictures of his home?

 

[stevie]

he looks extremely dehydrated i would give him water with electrolytes asap and than the vet and a good one .
and how old is he ?? maybe he's going to ... .

 

[bugman]

Hopefully I will get to all your questions and concerns..

I have been dusting his supers with various vitamins the one above that I mention is the one the Dr. recommended the reason I don't dust now is because he is not eating so I just want him to eat and dusting them wears off after they are siting in their dish for a period of time so yes I did dust everything I feed him when he was actively alert and able to hunt. I have tried dubia's and he used to eat gut loaded crickets but stopped once I introduced the Superworms into his diet

He is about 1.5 years old

I read that over stimulating with light could cause blindness so I have removed all fake lighting and taken his habitat outside where the temperatures are 89-70 high humidity. I have also brought out the auto misting system so he will get misting three times a day. My hopes are that natural light will provide him with the D3 he needs. Most of the cage is in the shade just a small percentage is in the light.

Already he is moving around the cage and opening his right eye which makes me happy maybe like you said the two lights were two much for him I just hope I did not blind him I have heard that certain UV light can blind a Cham not sure if this is true or not.

I think I will make an appointment for him today and hope to see the Dr. tomorrow. I would switch but all the Cham breeders recommend Dr. Gray in Illinois He is not as aggressive like another Dr. I've used but I think that can be a good thing.

Any thoughts on outdoor habitats? is 89 to hot when the humidity is so high our heat index is prob something like 95 degrees out there today

 

[carol5208]

Ah, I was reading the whole post and was just going to suggest getting him outside in the natural sunlight! It can make a world of difference! Just keep him misted and cooled. I have my chameleon outside alot in florida and it is much hotter and humid than where you are. They need to be monitored constantly. i would not just leave the cage out there and go to work or anything like that. I bring my chameleon inside the house into the AC and out as the day gets hotter or cooler towards the evening. i hope he continues to do better. He is a beautiful guy!

 

[davthevieled]

Yeah, from what I am understanding 85 is just pushing it when it comes to temps.

 

[bugman]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say the reason you aren't supplementing isn't because you aren't offering the supplements, but because he isn't eating. I'm curious though, how are the superworms "escaping"? Is there supstrate at the bottom of the cage? Another thing, have you tried to at least coax him towards something healthier than supers? They are high in fat and could cause problems...

Anyways, if you don't have supstrate and you are in fact supplementing (again, giving you the benefit of "he just isn't eating") I would agree with what is posted above, his eyes do look a bit sunken in and if you do have two uvbs in, it pretty much is going and doing some extreme tanning, it might be contributing to him closing his eyes due to iritation and might be causing him to be slightly dehydrated.

Actually, I just noticed his mouth is a bit gaped open towards the back... could be caused if you are giving too much d3 or caused due to a lack of supplements (you know, mbd).
Or it could be caused by a few other things... find a new vet, tell them everything that is going on. Show them the gape in his mouth. That really is the best advice. Could we get pictures of his home?

I did not know Supers where high in fat I thought it was the opposite I know that wax and meal worms offer little in benefit but I thought Superworms had everything they need bad advice I received I guess.

his home is elaborate I have posted it before the cage dimensions are above I have invested well over $1,000 on his environment so I don't think showing it is of any use because I have shown it before on other posts and I know it does not factor into the problems he is faced with.

I am not new to Chameleon's I have had other panthers and also have a veiled so I have tried to resolve what typically effects Chameleons such as these the Dr. mentioned it also could be allergies Anyone else have a cham with allergies?.

I am more concerned with leaving him outside does anyone else keep their cham outside? I hope this is the right thing to do I just think all the air conditioning and fluctuations in temperature and the lighting have been what is causing his issues so I am eliminating all these false environmental situations and sticking him out in mother nature where he was meant to be
I just hope it is the right thing

 

[bugman]

Your husbandry has a few issues, but what I would suggestis finding another cham vet, since it doesnt seem like you are getting what you need from your curent one. BTW, try finding a thread somewhere on here about bug juice. I know it involves blending bugs, and some other stuff, which you can then force feed to your cham to try to get him back on track, also get some pedialyte, ive read on here that that can help as well.

Bug Juice? cool I will look that up, Thanks!

 

[carol5208]

Supers have about 17 grams of fat per worm in comparison to a cricket that is about 6. I have an issue with my chameleon not eating crickets and liking supers also. It is very frustrating to say the least!

 

[bugman]

Ah, I was reading the whole post and was just going to suggest getting him outside in the natural sunlight! It can make a world of difference! Just keep him misted and cooled. I have my chameleon outside alot in florida and it is much hotter and humid than where you are. They need to be monitored constantly. i would not just leave the cage out there and go to work or anything like that. I bring my chameleon inside the house into the AC and out as the day gets hotter or cooler towards the evening. i hope he continues to do better. He is a beautiful guy!

Ok going to stay home today and watch him outdoors he is now positioned himself down in the sunny area of the cage and is sleeping on a stick at the moment.

 

[davthevieled]

I did not know Supers where high in fat I thought it was the opposite I know that wax and meal worms offer little in benefit but I thought Superworms had everything they need bad advice I received I guess.

his home is elaborate I have posted it before the cage dimensions are above I have invested well over $1,000 on his environment so I don't think showing it is of any use because I have shown it before on other posts and I know it does not factor into the problems he is faced with.

I am not new to Chameleon's I have had other panthers and also have a veiled so I have tried to resolve what typically effects Chameleons such as these the Dr. mentioned it also could be allergies Anyone else have a cham with allergies?.

I am more concerned with leaving him outside does anyone else keep their cham outside? I hope this is the right thing to do I just think all the air conditioning and fluctuations in temperature and the lighting have been what is causing his issues so I am eliminating all these false environmental situations and sticking him out in mother nature where he was meant to be
I just hope it is the right thing

From what I have read and understood, they should only be about 10-20% of their actual intake. The biggest health difference between the two I believe is that they don't cause impaction as seriously as meal worms do. If I'm wrong in that, I don't mind being corrected. I just skip meal and super worms for my cham and go straight to silks.

 

[bugman]

Supers have about 17 grams of fat per worm in comparison to a cricket that is about 6. I have an issue with my chameleon not eating crickets and liking supers also. It is very frustrating to say the least!

Good to know! thanks!!

 

[bugman]

From what I have read and understood, they should only be about 10-20% of their actual intake. The biggest health difference between the two I believe is that they don't cause impaction as seriously as meal worms do. If I'm wrong in that, I don't mind being corrected. I just skip meal and super worms for my cham and go straight to silks.

He does eat silks but have not gotten him any since I have not been to the reptile show in two months

 

[davthevieled]

He does eat silks but have not gotten him any since I have not been to the reptile show in two months

Honestly, I don't think there actually is a show in my area and I honestly wish there was. Honestly, since I have purchased my little guy, I haven't seen a veiled in the area which really is for shame... Although, after dealing with the stuff he was going through from the pet store, I don't think I would really ever get one from there.

 

[camimom]

Honestly, I don't think there actually is a show in my area and I honestly wish there was. Honestly, since I have purchased my little guy, I haven't seen a veiled in the area which really is for shame... Although, after dealing with the stuff he was going through from the pet store, I don't think I would really ever get one from there.

You can buy silks from mulberryfarms.com
I did yesterday.
Did ya find the bug juice?

 

[bugman]

You can buy silks from mulberryfarms.com
I did yesterday.
Did ya find the bug juice?

Not yet did a search but had to run out quick will look again. When I first searched it came back with a ton of threads

 

[bugman]

fecal photo

just gathered his fecal from today it is very small the white is tan and hard as a rock the dark is darker than normal usually brown but almost black

 

[armyrec1]

We are still new at all this really but I noticed that your light was 10 months old. I thought they started losing their effects by around six months??
Maybe he needs a new light to start with and thats why he is decreasing and now has other issues?
Also we bought silk worm eggs and just hatched our own. They were from Mulberry farm, we have also bought the silk worms before, ours loves them.
Hope the sunshine has helped somewhat.
Good Luck