Egg bound panther

[AineD]

Hi All,

I have a female panther who is egg bound at the moment, she has a lay bin in the terrarium and had not been digging in it, yesterday I noticed 5 eggs scattered all over the terrarium which leads me to believe she had been laying while walking around, she has now started to dig this morning (outside of the bin of course ) this is her third clutch and we have never had this issue with her before, my concern is that she doesn’t lay all of them and feels uncomfortable/ unsafe digging and laying, the terrarium has plenty of coverage with leaves, vines and bark/logs, the terrarium is 90cm x 45cm x 90cm. She was eating and drinking fine up until yesterday no change in behaviour

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi. Do you have at least the bottom half of her enclosure covered so she can’t see anyone? It doesn’t matter where she chooses to dig as long as she’s digging and working on laying the eggs. I really don’t like that she’s dropped some randomly...not good at all. If she doesn’t manage to continue digging/laying this attempt, it would be best to take her to a vet asap. The longer she goes being distressed and unable to lay, the weaker she’ll become and have a poorer outcome from veterinary interventions.

 

[AineD]

hello, thank you so much for the reply, the bottom half of the terrarium is mostly covered with cork bark and leaves in some areas with substrate it isn’t fully covered with leaves though so will pop some more leaves over the areas that aren’t covered, I’ve never had this issue with her before she’s usually fine with laying, She has been digging behind the cork bark in the substrate for most of the day with occasionally popping up but goes back down fairly quickly, I’ll contact my vet tomorrow morning if she’s failed to lay tonight to get an emergency appointment

 

[Beman]

hello, thank you so much for the reply, the bottom half of the terrarium is mostly covered with cork bark and leaves in some areas with substrate it isn’t fully covered with leaves though so will pop some more leaves over the areas that aren’t covered, I’ve never had this issue with her before she’s usually fine with laying, She has been digging behind the cork bark in the substrate for most of the day with occasionally popping up but goes back down fairly quickly, I’ll contact my vet tomorrow morning if she’s failed to lay tonight to get an emergency appointment

Not adding more leaves hun. She means do you have a sheet wrapped around the outside bottom half of the enclosure so she can dig without seeing you or anything else watching her?

 

[AineD]

sorry I don’t know why I automatically thought of leaves, I don’t but I will now! She’s nothing watching her bar ourselves so might throw a sheet over the full terrarium, her lights are on times so I don’t need to disturb her until the morning to check if she’s layed, thank you so much I’m so worried I’ve never had this with her before

 

[Beman]

sorry I don’t know why I automatically thought of leaves, I don’t but I will now! She’s nothing watching her bar ourselves so might throw a sheet over the full terrarium, her lights are on times so I don’t need to disturb her until the morning to check if she’s layed, thank you so much I’m so worried I’ve never had this with her before

Don't cover the entire top. You need airflow in the cage. Just the bottom half so she is not disturbed when she is digging.

If she does not start laying pretty quickly or decides to stop digging completlely get her into a vet. They can give her a shot to induce egg laying.

 

[AineD]

I’ve a mesh top so would only be covering the glass panels at the front, thank you I will keep youse posted

 

[kinyonga]

How many eggs were in the last two clutches?
When did she lay them?
How much do you feed her per week?
Did she dig holes and lay the eggs in the holes the last 2 times and fill the holes in?

 

[AineD]

**update**

Hi everyone, sorry I never got back on this to update I had some bad news in the family so I was pre occupied, she did not end up laying over night from this post so she was brought down to the vets who done an ultrasound and seen there was no obstructions. The vet gave her some additional calcium and sent her home and said if she doesn’t lay by tomorrow bring her back in for treatment, the vet said she was reluctant to give any hormones etc as of yet and wanted to see if she would naturally lay the eggs, we moved around some cork bark in the terrarium and gave her extra privacy and SHE LAID! I confirmed with the vet she had laid eggs and is back eating again and went over all the supplements we have for her which the vet wanted to do as the calcium she had given her obviously helped her, the vet confirmed we have everything correct for her and to just give her extra vitamins etc over the next few days because her little body would be exhausted , thank you so much everyone for all your advice!

 

[kinyonga]

So glad she laid the eggs! Hope she laid all of them!

Would still like answers to my questions. If Panther females are over fed and kept too warm, they can develop clutches that are too large for them and develop follicular stasis and egg binding to the point where it will cause death.

One of the indications that they might be heading down this road is dropping eggs here and there instead of laying them in the hole.

You might want to consider putting her on the regime we recommend to prevent large clutches of eggs from being produced and to give her a longer life.

Also, I have some concern that you’re using cork bark as a substrate. If the female ingests it, she could become impacted. it might be a good idea to have a review of your set up by answering the questions in this thread…
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/

 

[AineD]

So glad she laid the eggs! Hope she laid all of them!

Would still like answers to my questions. If Panther females are over fed and kept too warm, they can develop clutches that are too large for them and develop follicular stasis and egg binding to the point where it will cause death.

One of the indications that they might be heading down this road is dropping eggs here and there instead of laying them in the hole.

You might want to consider putting her on the regime we recommend to prevent large clutches of eggs from being produced and to give her a longer life.

Also, I have some concern that you’re using cork bark as a substrate. If the female ingests it, she could become impacted. it might be a good idea to have a review of your set up by answering the questions in this thread…
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/

I feed her 2-3 extra large locusts a day dusted in calcium, I don’t use cork bark as substrate I have large chunks of it in the terrarium for decoration I use rainforest substrate, I’ll

So glad she laid the eggs! Hope she laid all of them!

Would still like answers to my questions. If Panther females are over fed and kept too warm, they can develop clutches that are too large for them and develop follicular stasis and egg binding to the point where it will cause death.

One of the indications that they might be heading down this road is dropping eggs here and there instead of laying them in the hole.

You might want to consider putting her on the regime we recommend to prevent large clutches of eggs from being produced and to give her a longer life.

Also, I have some concern that you’re using cork bark as a substrate. If the female ingests it, she could become impacted. it might be a good idea to have a review of your set up by answering the questions in this thread…
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/how-to-ask-for-help.66/

we feed her 2-3 large locusts daily, we don’t use cork bark as substrate we have large logs of it for decoration, we use rainforest substrate for the end of the terrarium, here is all the information below,

Your Chameleon - female panther chameleon, have had since 2020, she was a juvenile when we got her but not 100% sure on exact age

Handling- very rare, she is not a social chameleon so we leave her alone unless we need to be handled for medical reasons

Feeding- 2-3 large locusts daily, dusted is calcium daily then vitamins once every 2 weeks, we use wax worms on occasion for a treat because she loves them

Supplements - calci dust, arkvits

Watering - dropper plant in terrarium. Mist 3 times daily (morning, afternoon, night)

Fecal Description - brown with white at the top, has been tested for parasites and confirmed there is none

History - chameleon had an eye infection, Vet had her on antibiotics and ointment for the eyes, she was on eye drops but this was not helping so ointment resolved the issue

Cage Type - Glass cage, 90x90x45

lighting - UVB bulb, not 100% sure on brand

Temperature - 26-29 degrees Celsius

Humidity- 80%ish during the day, 70-75% ish at night

Plants- no live plants

Placement- cage is placed in the corner of a bedroom, we are usually only in the room in the evening/ nighttime as we both are out of the house 6am- 7pm

Location- Ireland

 

[AineD]

I feed her 2-3 extra large locusts a day dusted in calcium, I don’t use cork bark as substrate I have large chunks of it in the terrarium for decoration I use rainforest substrate, I’ll

we feed her 2-3 large locusts daily, we don’t use cork bark as substrate we have large logs of it for decoration, we use rainforest substrate for the end of the terrarium, here is all the information below,

Your Chameleon - female panther chameleon, have had since 2020, she was a juvenile when we got her but not 100% sure on exact age

Handling- very rare, she is not a social chameleon so we leave her alone unless we need to be handled for medical reasons

Feeding- 2-3 large locusts daily, dusted is calcium daily then vitamins once every 2 weeks, we use wax worms on occasion for a treat because she loves them

Supplements - calci dust, arkvits

Watering - dropper plant in terrarium. Mist 3 times daily (morning, afternoon, night)

Fecal Description - brown with white at the top, has been tested for parasites and confirmed there is none

History - chameleon had an eye infection, Vet had her on antibiotics and ointment for the eyes, she was on eye drops but this was not helping so ointment resolved the issue

Cage Type - Glass cage, 90x90x45

lighting - UVB bulb, not 100% sure on brand

Temperature - 26-29 degrees Celsius

Humidity- 80%ish during the day, 70-75% ish at night

Plants- no live plants

Placement- cage is placed in the corner of a bedroom, we are usually only in the room in the evening/ nighttime as we both are out of the house 6am- 7pm

Location- Ireland

Sorry correction I’ve had her since 2021 not 2020 I got our male in 2020 ( different terrariums on the opposite side of the room they can’t see each other)

 

[kinyonga]

Good that you’re not using corkbark!

How many eggs did she lay in the last clutches?

 

[AineD]

Good that you’re not using corkbark!

How many eggs did she lay in the last clutches?

Her first clutch was 28 eggs and second was 31 if I remember correctly, she laid 27 + 5 which were around the terrarium in total, she is back eating, drink and basking and back to her usual self (I like to say it’s her world we just live in it to serve her) We attempted to introduce our male and female a couple of months ago and she had 0 interest and got really stressed so we haven’t tried it since we feel it’s not worth adding stress into her life we are just happy to have them as pets, I’ll admit at one point I think was over feeding her wax worms but seen a post on this site that said it’s like giving her McDonald’s so I stopped giving them to her daily and only use them as a treat, once she laid and was basking I gave her some dusted in vitamins she goes crazy for them

 

[kinyonga]

Good that you cut down on the wax worms. Some insects should only be a treat once in a while.

While the number of eggs she’s laying is not outrageous, it’s higher than I’d like to see her laying.…especially since she was dropping eggs before laying the whole clutch. I would cut her back a bit on how much and what you’re feeding her.

 

[AineD]

Good that you cut down on the wax worms. Some insects should only be a treat once in a while.

While the number of eggs she’s laying is not outrageous, it’s higher than I’d like to see her laying.…especially since she was dropping eggs before laying the whole clutch. I would cut her back a bit on how much and what you’re feeding her.

Yeah I think we might cut back also I don’t want to put her through that again, thank you so much for all the advice I really appreciate it

 

[kinyonga]

Just don’t skip the proper supplements and make sure you feed/gut load the insects properly, etc. as well.

Don’t cut her all the way back all at once…start with the same amount of food every second day instead of every day.
If the basking temperatures are kept at 80F, it should help her feel less hungry as well and maybe slow her metabolism slightly too.

 

[Bazelthechameleon]

I feed her 2-3 extra large locusts a day dusted in calcium, I don’t use cork bark as substrate I have large chunks of it in the terrarium for decoration I use rainforest substrate, I’ll

we feed her 2-3 large locusts daily, we don’t use cork bark as substrate we have large logs of it for decoration, we use rainforest substrate for the end of the terrarium, here is all the information below,

Your Chameleon - female panther chameleon, have had since 2020, she was a juvenile when we got her but not 100% sure on exact age

Handling- very rare, she is not a social chameleon so we leave her alone unless we need to be handled for medical reasons

Feeding- 2-3 large locusts daily, dusted is calcium daily then vitamins once every 2 weeks, we use wax worms on occasion for a treat because she loves them

Supplements - calci dust, arkvits

Watering - dropper plant in terrarium. Mist 3 times daily (morning, afternoon, night)

Fecal Description - brown with white at the top, has been tested for parasites and confirmed there is none

History - chameleon had an eye infection, Vet had her on antibiotics and ointment for the eyes, she was on eye drops but this was not helping so ointment resolved the issue

Cage Type - Glass cage, 90x90x45

lighting - UVB bulb, not 100% sure on brand

Temperature - 26-29 degrees Celsius

Humidity- 80%ish during the day, 70-75% ish at night

Plants- no live plants

Placement- cage is placed in the corner of a bedroom, we are usually only in the room in the evening/ nighttime as we both are out of the house 6am- 7pm

Location- Ireland

Just wondering if you’ve seen your girl nibble on any of the fake plants. Some panthers enjoy eating plants and the fake plants could be risky. The humidity’s a little on the high side during the day, most likely due to your glass cage. Are any of the sides of the cage screen or is it completely glass?

 

[AineD]

Just wondering if you’ve seen your girl nibble on any of the fake plants. Some panthers enjoy eating plants and the fake plants could be risky. The humidity’s a little on the high side during the day, most likely due to your glass cage. Are any of the sides of the cage screen or is it completely glass?

I haven’t noticed she does it but she does lick the dripper plant when using it sometimes, it’s glass all around with a mesh top

 

[Bazelthechameleon]

I haven’t noticed she does it but she does lick the dripper plant when using it sometimes, it’s glass all around with a mesh top

Ok cool. If you can, incorporating some live plants into your enclosure may be beneficial, but not required since she isn’t a snacker. I would recommend putting a small fan on top of the mesh top of your cage to cycle the air out to help with airflow and humidity.