Edema

janjan20

Chameleon Enthusiast
I’ve noticed some edema under Paddy’s arm. I have Covid right now so I am unable to take him to the vet at the moment. Not sure if it could be due to the supplements. I have 3 others on the same and they are fine. @Beman I know you were having issues with Beman. Any suggestions? My husbandry is not typical bc he is outside.

Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - 9 month old, veiled male, been in my care since Aug 2019.
  • Handling - Once a week at least.
  • Feeding - 3-4 med discoids every other day, 1-2 silks every other day(when I have them) 1 super every other week. Gutloaded with rotating dry Arcadia gutload, OMG gutload, carrots, collard greens.
  • Supplements - Earth proA every feeding, every other Saturday Arcadia Ca/Mg. No supplemental D3 bc he is outside.
  • Watering - Mistking 3 mins morning and evening. Outside humidity at night gets between 80-100 nightly. Haven’t seen him drink since he was a baby.
  • Fecal Description - Normal off white urate, Normal stool, no parasite testing.
  • History - None.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - pvc mesh 3x3x4 ft
  • Lighting - natural sun, he is outside. Normal day/night schedule.
  • Temperature - Average cage temps have been in the Low 70s, basking upper 80s to low 90s. Depends on how sunny it is. I usually put a shade over him when it gets in the 80s.
  • Humidity - Average 40-60, depends on the weather.
  • Plants - Hibiscus tree, scheffelera, jasmine vine.
  • Placement - Outside in backyard.
  • Location - Central FL

I noticed what looks like edema under between his front arms. Probably progressed over the past 2 weeks. Just now catching my attention. He’s still eating normally and active.
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Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Hey hun... Are you using bee pollen in anything else?

I suspected too much Bee pollen. I had it in my gutload, bottom of feeder cups and of course it is in the arcadia products. I took him off all of it. There is a small amount in the insect fuel I mix into my gutload now but that is it. No additional at all. The edema took about 2 weeks to fully subside... But the interesting thing was that he always had puffy forearms the last year. I had suspected gout the last few month or even renal issues. Even though blood work was fine prior. But within 4-6 weeks that subsided as well. I believe he was getting too much bee pollen.

So I moved him from the arcadia products over to repashy plain calcium and reptivite with D3 2 times a month (because he is not currently going outside). I removed all pollen in the feeder cups and no longer add 2 teaspoons to my gutload.
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Hmm wonder what could be in the bee pollen. Its down to 2 things; a non water soluble vitamin, or a protein/amino acid. And it got to be in pretty big concentration.
I dunno... But it was the main thing I changed immediately. And everything subsided once I did. So something was effecting him with it.
 

janjan20

Chameleon Enthusiast
Hey hun... Are you using bee pollen in anything else?

I suspected too much Bee pollen. I had it in my gutload, bottom of feeder cups and of course it is in the arcadia products. I took him off all of it. There is a small amount in the insect fuel I mix into my gutload now but that is it. No additional at all. The edema took about 2 weeks to fully subside... But the interesting thing was that he always had puffy forearms the last year. I had suspected gout the last few month or even renal issues. Even though blood work was fine prior. But within 4-6 weeks that subsided as well. I believe he was getting too much bee pollen.

So I moved him from the arcadia products over to repashy plain calcium and reptivite with D3 2 times a month (because he is not currently going outside). I removed all pollen in the feeder cups and no longer add 2 teaspoons to my gutload.
No other direct dusting with bee pollen besides what is in the Earth ProA. The insect fuel has it but I rotate that with gutloading the feeders. He eats the buds from his hibiscus but hasn’t had any recently since it’s winter. I will be switching him back to Repashy No D.
Hmm wonder what could be in the bee pollen. Its down to 2 things; a non water soluble vitamin, or a protein/amino acid. And it got to be in pretty big concentration.
I’m not supplementing him with any D3 and the Vit A is from the Earth ProA. I don’t feed the roaches any extra protein, mainly veggies and dry gutload.
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
@janjan20

First pic was October 20th... I did not notice it then. Second pic was a little over a week later when I actually saw it. 3rd pic is now roughly 2 months after all changes removing pollen and new supplements. You can see no edema at all and the forearms are now slim without little rolls or puffiness. Even his eyes looked off but I didn't catch it at first.

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Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
I switched to this one for plain calcium and have been very happy with the quality of it https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00N3BKCGA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Bane and Bentley are still on the EP-A although I now rotate in the repashy calicum as well. They have not showed any issues.

Let me know if the change helps... It would be interesting to know. I have stayed pretty quiet about the issue I had since I have nothing scientific to back it up. lol
 

janjan20

Chameleon Enthusiast
Thank you for these pics! He has been on the Arcadia since around Sept. So he has been on it roughly 4-5 months. Does that seem like a typical time to manifest?
I switched to this one for plain calcium and have been very happy with the quality of it https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00N3BKCGA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Bane and Bentley are still on the EP-A although I now rotate in the repashy calicum as well. They have not showed any issues.

Let me know if the change helps... It would be interesting to know. I have stayed pretty quiet about the issue I had since I have nothing scientific to back it up. lol
Ok, thank you! I will be switching ASAP and see if it resolves. Did you increase hydration as well?
I will be rotating the others as well just in case since the paranoia has now set in lol.
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Thank you for these pics! He has been on the Arcadia since around Sept. So he has been on it roughly 4-5 months. Does that seem like a typical time to manifest?

Ok, thank you! I will be switching ASAP and see if it resolves. Did you increase hydration as well?
I will be rotating the others as well just in case since the paranoia has now set in lol.
Well lets see I have had Beman a little over 2 years... First year he was on EP-A and reptivite. then I switched to repashy LoD for about 6 months then went back to the Arcadia line. I guess it was sometime the beginning of this year I changed back.. He started showing issues mid October. So your time frame is pretty similar to mine.

Beman was constantly thirsty... I provided him a dripper every day for an hour period until he no longer went for it. Took about 2-3 weeks for him to back off it like he normally would. But for that hour he drank constantly. I was worried about over hydrating so I only had it running for an hour mid day though.
 

nightanole

Chameleon Enthusiast
A, D, E and K

So if its not A or D....


The richest dietary sources of vitamin E include certain vegetable oils, seeds and nuts.
Other rich sources include avocados, peanut butter, margarine, fatty fish and fish liver oil.


The best dietary sources of vitamin K1 (phylloquinone) are leafy green vegetables, whereas vitamin K2 (menaquinone) is mainly found in animal-sourced foods
 

jannb

Chameleon Enthusiast
Ok thank you! I’m in quarantine so I have to wait...😕

One of my other babies, Squirt, from the 2017 clutch had the swelling in his neck and his blood work show problems with his liver. He’s been on meds for several months now.
 

janjan20

Chameleon Enthusiast
Well lets see I have had Beman a little over 2 years... First year he was on EP-A and reptivite. then I switched to repashy LoD for about 6 months then went back to the Arcadia line. I guess it was sometime the beginning of this year I changed back.. He started showing issues mid October. So your time frame is pretty similar to mine.

Beman was constantly thirsty... I provided him a dripper every day for an hour period until he no longer went for it. Took about 2-3 weeks for him to back off it like he normally would. But for that hour he drank constantly. I was worried about over hydrating so I only had it running for an hour mid day though.
I have tried dripping with a pipette but he’s not really interested. I was able to have him take some with some roaches.
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
One of my other babies, Squirt, from the 2017 clutch had the swelling in his neck and his blood work show problems with his liver. He’s been on meds for several months now.
Didn't she also have her UVB and supplementation incorrect as well though?
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
I have tried dripping with a pipette but he’s not really interested. I was able to have him take some with some roaches.
Maybe he is not thirsty. You have high night time humidity... So he may be getting what he needs without being additionally thirsty.
 

janjan20

Chameleon Enthusiast
A, D, E and K

So if its not A or D....


The richest dietary sources of vitamin E include certain vegetable oils, seeds and nuts.
Other rich sources include avocados, peanut butter, margarine, fatty fish and fish liver oil.


The best dietary sources of vitamin K1 (phylloquinone) are leafy green vegetables, whereas vitamin K2 (menaquinone) is mainly found in animal-sourced foods
I think the Earth ProA does have added K.
 

Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
A, D, E and K

So if its not A or D....


The richest dietary sources of vitamin E include certain vegetable oils, seeds and nuts.
Other rich sources include avocados, peanut butter, margarine, fatty fish and fish liver oil.


The best dietary sources of vitamin K1 (phylloquinone) are leafy green vegetables, whereas vitamin K2 (menaquinone) is mainly found in animal-sourced foods
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