Edema?

ajs

ajs

Avid Member
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Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - ~4-5 month old Ambilobe/Ambanja mix. I have had him for two weeks now
  • Handling - ~30 minutes/day, usually outside to give him some natural sunlight exposure
  • Feeding - Dubias (gut loaded on carrots and oats/occasionally apples), crickets (same gutload - although I am not feeding with crickets nearly as often for the past week or so) BSFL (no gutload), hornworms (no gutload, as a treat). I give him a mix of the above feeders daily, but heavy on BSFL and Dubias.
  • Supplements - Exoterra repticalcium without d3 - 3-4 times/week. Herptivite (Repcal) multivitamin twice a month. Calcium with D3 (Repcal) twice a month.
  • Watering - I have a dripper, humidifier, and I mist 2-3 times per day. I will also "hand" feed him water with a Turkey baster that I have. I see him drink this way occasionally (maybe once a day).
  • Fecal Description - Always white urates. Actual fecal matter seems to be normal, maybe a bit dark the last day or two but not incredibly.
  • History - N/A

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Screen 18x18x36
  • Lighting - 5.0 T8 UVB reptisun and 100W incandescent dimmed to 75-80W
  • Temperature - basking spot is around 85 or so. Ambient temps stay at least 70. I've measured this with both the exoterra dual thermometer/hygrometer and a thermometer with a probe.
  • Humidity - 60+ at night and 40-60% during the day. I have an ultrasonic cool mist humidifier
  • Plants - pothos and umbrella plants. Two fake plants near the top of his cage
  • Placement - by the window in the "dining room" attached to our kitchen so he sees us often from a distance. The cage sits on a 3ft tall stand that I have built next to a window.
  • Location - Raleigh, NC area

Current Problem - it looks like my cham has started to develop a little edema. I am worried that I might have over dusted a couple times, as a couple of the crickets looked almost like powdered donuts. I have been feeding a lot of BSFL and dubias recently though and have eased up on the dusting.

Do you guys think that is the issue here?
 
You said..."Dubias (gut loaded on carrots and oats/occasionally apples), crickets (same gutload - although I am not feeding with crickets nearly as often for the past week or so) BSFL (no gutload), hornworms (no gutload, as a treat). I give him a mix of the above feeders daily, but heavy on BSFL and Dubias"...I would recommend feeding/gutloading the roaches and crickets with dandelion greens, kale, squash, collards, zucchini, sweet potato, sweet red pepper and a very little bit of fruit such as berries, melon, apples, pears, etc.

I would drop the oatmeal and see if that helps too.
I'm not a vet...this is just from my experience.
 
Prince of Duval said:
How many of each feeder are you giving and how often?
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The past few days I've been giving him each day: ~15-20 BSFL and ~5 Dubias. Maybe 1-3 hornworms as treats.

I have swapped the amount of Dubias and BSFL for 1-2 of the recent days also (15 Dubia and 5 BSFL)
 
I know Repashy calcium plus LoD is recommended a lot, do you think switching to that supplement would help this issue as well?
 
I have used LOD in the past with no issues. However with my Current panther, it has given him Endema.

When it did, I stopped all dusting for 2 weeks. Then began dusting with repashy normal calcium at every feeding and LOD 1 time per week, as a few others I know use that regimine and it works great for them. That switch was a few months ago, the endema is gone, and I have not had any issues since.

YMMV, but that schedule has been working for me. I am not sure if its because I was dusting too heavily, the difference in feeder types from back then to this time. Or just a per animal basis.

I know their was a study done on the CCC group about LOD. They are saying that giving it to panthers results in more vibrant colors. I am not sure how much truth there is to this, but a few folks did some tests, and found the same result. Again YMMV. That testing made me want to keep using LOD, just changed amounts thats why I mentioned it.
 
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Edema update:

Does it look worse? It's been 48 hours since I first noticed it. When I first took him out of his cage (top picture), it seemed like it had gone down a lot. But after having him outside for ~30 minutes, I noticed it seemed to be maybe even worse than originally. I'm really worried about it since I am a new owner. I have stopped giving supplements and have tried to get him to drink, but he has seemed to stop wanting to be "hand fed" water. His urates are still 100% white.

I've been giving him hornworms to try to boost hydration also.

Is there anything else I can do? Should I think about seeing a vet?
 
It does look worse, but it could have just been diffrent stances that make it look worse or better.

My panthers wasn't quite that bad, but pretty close. It took about a week and half, 2 weeks of no supplements to go away.

I stopped all supplements for a week, and then did only calcium and only one 1 feeder for a week. (Or very light on 1 feeder if he was getting a roach)

Then began dusting with calcium normally, for a week then at the end of the 4th week, gave LOD on Sunday. I now only give LOD on Sundays.

Also on the note of getting worse. That could be, because all of the supplements are still in his system. It will take a little while to let them all pass through. So I personally wouldn't worry, but others that have more experience with edemas will be better able to tell you.
 
cyberlocc said:
It does look worse, but it could have just been diffrent stances that make it look worse or better.

My panthers wasn't quite that bad, but pretty close. It took about a week and half, 2 weeks of no supplements to go away.

I stopped all supplements for a week, and then did only calcium and only one 1 feeder for a week. (Or very light on 1 feeder if he was getting a roach)

Then began dusting with calcium normally, for a week then at the end of the 4th week, gave LOD on Sunday. I now only give LOD on Sundays.

Also on the note of getting worse. That could be, because all of the supplements are still in his system. It will take a little while to let them all pass through. So I personally wouldn't worry, but others that have more experience with edemas will be better able to tell you.
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Thank you very much for the quick reply. It's a bit hard since I'm new and this is a little scary, but I'll try to not worry so much about it for now and be patient
 
Also another note on the D3, that I was told by the person who told me to give LOD 1-2x a week tops. Forgot to mention.

I'm not sure what kind of lighting Repashy recommends with LOD, however when it was created, there was no T5HO UV bulbs. Which are massively stronger than the T8s of then. The Kammers still Recommend LOD at every feeding, and have not documented this issue. They also use T8s still.

So the thought from alot of the folks that have seen or had this issue. Is it is the amount of D3, along with already having ample D3 from lighting that is possiblely causing this issue. It makes sense, given those facts, but I don't think anyone knows forsure.

So in that regard giving NoD daily, with LoD weekly, (or NoD always) may be a better option from a Vitamin standpoint. It is something those of us that have chams that have this reaction should check out.
 
cyberlocc said:
Also another note on the D3, that I was told by the person who told me to give LOD 1-2x a week tops. Forgot to mention.

I'm not sure what kind of lighting Repashy recommends with LOD, however when it was created, there was no T5HO UV bulbs. Which are massively stronger than the T8s of then. The Kammers still Recommend LOD at every feeding, and have not documented this issue. They also use T8s still.

So the thought from alot of the folks that have seen or had this issue. Is it is the amount of D3, along with already having ample D3 from lighting that is possiblely causing this issue. It makes sense, given those facts, but I don't think anyone knows forsure.
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Ah okay, I'll think about that once I feel I can resume supplementing. I have a T8 5.0 reptisun UVB light that I'm using now. But i also give him 30 minutes of natural sunlight per day

Edit: I got my cham from Kammerflage
 
ajs said:
Ah okay, I'll think about that once I feel I can resume supplementing. I have a T8 5.0 reptisun UVB light that I'm using now. But i also give him 30 minutes of natural sunlight per day

Edit: I got my cham from Kammerflage
Click to expand...

In that case it could be the outside sunlight that is giving the needed D3. I'm not sure, it seems to work for them, without this happening so idk.
 
Edema update: (pictures taken yesterday - 5 days after noticing edema)
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I feel like it has gone down a little bit. I do not notice the swelling near his front leg very much. The top of his neck is still swollen. Hard to tell if that part has gone done much.

What do you guys think? I found a vet nearby that has treated a few chams in the past just in case.

Also a question about repashy supplements - if I were to copy your schedule of just calcium every day and LoD 1-2x per week, would it be best to use repashy calcium (without LoD) or can I keep the normal Zoomed repticalcium I have?
 
ajs said:
Edema update: (pictures taken yesterday - 5 days after noticing edema)
View attachment 265559View attachment 265560View attachment 265561View attachment 265562
I feel like it has gone down a little bit. I do not notice the swelling near his front leg very much. The top of his neck is still swollen. Hard to tell if that part has gone done much.

What do you guys think? I found a vet nearby that has treated a few chams in the past just in case.

Also a question about repashy supplements - if I were to copy your schedule of just calcium every day and LoD 1-2x per week, would it be best to use repashy calcium (without LoD) or can I keep the normal Zoomed repticalcium I have?
Click to expand...

Looks to have greatly gone down, I wouldn't worry. Just keep doing the no supplements and then the new schedule.

You can use whatever calcium you want.
 
D7 Edema update and question:
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I still think it is slowly going down, right?

Should I be avoiding BSFL while he has this due to their high calcium content? Or is it a good way to still get some calcium to him while avoiding supplementation?
 
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